Vs Autocar: BMW M6 vs Jaguar XKR-S vs MB SL63 AMG


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I don't fully love the new SL yet, but perhaps the only Vert I'd ever own is an SL, so it takes my vote easily here.

The Jag winning is just pathetic. Really.

The M6 I love, but I don't like the 6er in Vert fashion. It accentuates the "boaty bloaty" look of the 6er and just looked too huge and odd (like a Sedan with the roof cut off and two doors). Also, the 6ers heavy chassis is no match for the SL's incredible work of aluminum art, and no where near as expensive to build. Many reviews have stated that the 6er Vert suffers from "typical Convertible chassis flex and vibrations" while the SL's apparently is free of all that.
 
Decent review. I friggin love Mercedes-Benz, but I have to be honest in saying that I am less convinced by the latest SL than I've ever been with one before. It's an an impeccable piece of engineering without doubt, but I am not sure on the exterior. Not that it looks bad by any means, but I find it quite underwhelming. The Jag is pretty nice, but I would have to say I personally choose the BMW. First time in a long time I have actually liked a BMW (probably since the E39 era)

I agree about the SL. "Underwhelming" is the best way to put it. It just doesn't feel as special anymore or have that presence that SL's always did. IMO it's due to the fact that M-B is expanding its lower end/cheaper product portfolio too much to where it bites into the SL's specialness.... that and/or the SL just doesn't have the "it" factor this time around. I just don't "feel the magic" this time. Though, I still do *like* the car.
 
It has nothing to do with the cheaper cars buddy... it's because is just plain ugly. You won't say the SLS is less special/doesn't make your pants bump because of the A and B class existence or do you?

Simply put.... SLS: beautiful, simple, timeless; SL: ugliest headlights this side of the 1er and Hyundais.

Regards!
 
The SLS is just majestic though. THAT'S how M-B needs to be designing their upper end cars. Classic, pretty, clean, TIMELESS. It bears no resemblance to the lower end of cars even though many of them take its nose and elements. The SL just.... idk, I don't think it looks that much more expensive than "Mercedes-Benz xxxx" really anymore.

The new designer team apparently don't like the SLS though, because it was a "missed opportunity", because the ex head designer made it his baby and wanted to keep it pure in its homage. You know they just hate it because they couldn't scribble CLS type lines all over it!
 
The butthurt is strong in this thread.

The most exciting car to drive, due to its lower weight and higher power-to-weight ratio, wins the comparison test. What a shocker.

And it's not like the others were humiliated or anything, on this occasion and on these roads the best car won. It's as simple as that.
 
The butthurt is strong in this thread.

The most exciting car to drive, due to its lower weight and higher power-to-weight ratio, wins the comparison test. What a shocker.

Yeah right, if what Autocar put was true.

Sorry, the amount of cr*p being written here, being taken as gospel, has made me register.

As anyone over five years of age, not lobotomised, not on the payroll, a paid/unpaid internet shill of/for Haymarket publications/JLR's Gaydon press office knows, Autocar and Jaguar/Land Rover are notorious for being flat-out, in-yer-face liars. The only value of Autocar is comedy.

£3.20(~ $5) per week, to have one's intelligence insulted by a pack of morbidly obese, cynically jingoistic, no scruples no-marks, like Cropley, Saunders and Sutcliffe, in the pocket of Tata's slush fund/'entertainment' budget, and probably Rupert Heseltine with some share interest in Tata Motors? Come on. Open your eyes!

Let's deal with facts rather than over-the-top BS, which is Autocar/most little-englander Brit auto writers(Auto Express, What Car, Car, Pistonheads(Chris Harris excepted), etc., etc.,)' stock-in-trade.

The stated 'lower weight' and higher power-to-weight is a lie . Autocar did not weigh the cars, but state manufacturers' data. See this earlier comparison test for an example of real, actual weights:

http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...brio-new-sl500-911-carrera-s-cabriolet.44221/

Jag XKR Cabrio (not '-S') - 1,916 kg (oh, and the XKR came last).

- that's over 100 kg, 121 kilos to be precise, than the stated weight by Autocar/Jaguar for the higher-powered '-S' version, which one might expect to be a bit heavier than the standard XKR Cab..

By the way, for those who don't know of the ways of JLR's deception and mendacity, on their official material and their websites they always state weight as without driver and luggage, which is contrary to the EU/German/fast-becoming world auto industry norm. By doing this they automatically make themselves look 75 kg (68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage) lighter than the apparently obese Germans, who actually stick to the convention of EU-norm weight stating, as opposed to the former 'DIN' norm, which did not include driver and luggage weight.

The Range Rover Evoque is a particularly blatant example of JLR conning people that their products are 'lightweight', 'high-tech', 'modern' and 'premium', whereas in reality the Evoque is ~200 kgs over the claimed weight (1,850 v 1,650 kgs), fuel-guzzling, mutton-dressed-up-as-lamb(LR2 underpinnings and Ford engines), inadequately developed and engineered(electronics interfaces notoriously), shoddily built, and massively, ~£10k/$15k, overpriced.

Also note that JLR always try to deceive again by stating 0-60 mph times, instead of the now industry norm of 0-100 km/h times (0-62 mph). They of course measure 0-100 km/h like everyone else but then miraculously remove as much as 7/10 ths of a second to work back to the U.S. preferred 0-60 mph time, which is quite a stretch, and frankly ridiculous. They do this to hide the fact that their cars are uncompetitive, however many times they try to boost the power of the behind-the-pace AJ-V8 engine, and however many times they add garish plastic addenda from 'Maxpower'.

If you want to see for your own eyes, rather than Autocar/JLR's Gaydon press office's lies, just how poor a performance car the XKR-S actually is, even with 550 PS, and a ridiculous, gouging price of £105k/$133k, read and watch the video of Motor Trend's current 2012 Best Driver's Car comparo:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/...best_drivers_car_contenders/jaguar_xkr_s.html

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

How is it that a real comparison test by MotorTrend shows this car up so badly, even with the presumably better handling, lighter Coupe version, and yet the 'journalists' at Autocar can put it ahead of a brand-new, ultra-engineered SL and a just-introduced, non plus ultra-powertrained M6? Come on, the only answer is Autocar are filthy liars. Everyone knows it - apparently except some people here. Hmm.

If you start to look, you'll see their lying and deception everywhere. Take the stated Jag's acceleration time. We know Autocar didn't actually time it and just stuck in what they thought would be the most flatterring. According to Jaguar themselves, from www.jaguar.com, they don't even state a 0-62 mph time for the XKR-S Cabriolet, only for the Coupe version, which they say does 0-62 mph in 4.4 s. So where did Autocar get 4.2 s, for the presumably slower/heavier cabriolet, figure from? More BS? But of course. They had to make it look quicker than the 'dreaded Germans', to the uninitiated, union jack-waving, little englander, magazine-buying, gullible sap, who still believes Blighty still rules the waves! Hurrah! 'We gave the dreaded Hun a damn good kicking, with our over-the-hill, overpriced Indian-owned motor again, what!!'.

It's pathetic and transparent to even those with half an idea, but Haymarket and JLR still think, obviously, there's enough mental-deficients out there, with access to credit, who still fall for this tawdry garbage.

Just my 2 cents, of course!
 
Classic rant and welcome to the forum. :) You'll be an interesting one to watch I'm certain...
 
In the real world the SL63 is the lightest.

1. Here are the results of the AutoBild Sportscars-comparison: http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...kr-s-cabriolet-vs-mercedes-sl63-amg-pp.45595/

2. And here's what Sport Auto managed: M6 Cabrio vs. XKR-S Cabrio + SL63 AMG PP + SL500
  • Weight with full tank of fuel: 2047 kg / 1897 kg / 1875 kg / 1808 kg
  • 0-100 km/h: 4,5 s / 4,4 s / 4,2 s / 4,4 s
  • 0-200 km/h: 14,2 s / 14,5 s / 12,5 s / 14,5 s
  • 18 m slalom: 66,0 km/h / 66,4 km/h / 67,6 km/h / 66,3 km/h
  • Braking (100-0 km/h), warm: 37,5 m / 35,2 m / 39,4 m / 39,8 m
  • Hockenheimring: 1:15,4 min / 1.15,1 min / 1.13,2 min / 1.15,5 min
Air temperaures when tested: 24 Degrees Celsius (M6 & Jag) and 28 Degrees Celsius (SL63 & SL500).
 
^I don't have a problem with Autocar using 0-60 because the UK use imperial measurement of mph, we don't use km/h so why quote acceleration figures of 0-100km/h? Why they got the weight wrong is odd unless it's a typo. What I am more interested in is how each of these three perform on the open roads and in my opinion this is why Jaguars continue to win/do well in UK tests.

Don't take results in one country as bias because it might be difference else where.
 
Yeah right, if what Autocar put was true.

Sorry, the amount of cr*p being written here, being taken as gospel, has made me register.

As anyone over five years of age, not lobotomised, not on the payroll, a paid/unpaid internet shill of/for Haymarket publications/JLR's Gaydon press office knows, Autocar and Jaguar/Land Rover are notorious for being flat-out, in-yer-face liars. The only value of Autocar is comedy.

£3.20(~ $5) per week, to have one's intelligence insulted by a pack of morbidly obese, cynically jingoistic, no scruples no-marks, like Cropley, Saunders and Sutcliffe, in the pocket of Tata's slush fund/'entertainment' budget, and probably Rupert Heseltine with some share interest in Tata Motors? Come on. Open your eyes!

Let's deal with facts rather than over-the-top BS, which is Autocar/most little-englander Brit auto writers(Auto Express, What Car, Car, Pistonheads(Chris Harris excepted), etc., etc.,)' stock-in-trade.

The stated 'lower weight' and higher power-to-weight is a lie . Autocar did not weigh the cars, but state manufacturers' data. See this earlier comparison test for an example of real, actual weights:

http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...brio-new-sl500-911-carrera-s-cabriolet.44221/

Jag XKR Cabrio (not '-S') - 1,916 kg (oh, and the XKR came last).

- that's over 100 kg, 121 kilos to be precise, than the stated weight by Autocar/Jaguar for the higher-powered '-S' version, which one might expect to be a bit heavier than the standard XKR Cab..

By the way, for those who don't know of the ways of JLR's deception and mendacity, on their official material and their websites they always state weight as without driver and luggage, which is contrary to the EU/German/fast-becoming world auto industry norm. By doing this they automatically make themselves look 75 kg (68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage) lighter than the apparently obese Germans, who actually stick to the convention of EU-norm weight stating, as opposed to the former 'DIN' norm, which did not include driver and luggage weight.

The Range Rover Evoque is a particularly blatant example of JLR conning people that their products are 'lightweight', 'high-tech', 'modern' and 'premium', whereas in reality the Evoque is ~200 kgs over the claimed weight (1,850 v 1,650 kgs), fuel-guzzling, mutton-dressed-up-as-lamb(LR2 underpinnings and Ford engines), inadequately developed and engineered(electronics interfaces notoriously), shoddily built, and massively, ~£10k/$15k, overpriced.

Also note that JLR always try to deceive again by stating 0-60 mph times, instead of the now industry norm of 0-100 km/h times (0-62 mph). They of course measure 0-100 km/h like everyone else but then miraculously remove as much as 7/10 ths of a second to work back to the U.S. preferred 0-60 mph time, which is quite a stretch, and frankly ridiculous. They do this to hide the fact that their cars are uncompetitive, however many times they try to boost the power of the behind-the-pace AJ-V8 engine, and however many times they add garish plastic addenda from 'Maxpower'.

If you want to see for your own eyes, rather than Autocar/JLR's Gaydon press office's lies, just how poor a performance car the XKR-S actually is, even with 550 PS, and a ridiculous, gouging price of £105k/$133k, read and watch the video of Motor Trend's current 2012 Best Driver's Car comparo:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/...best_drivers_car_contenders/jaguar_xkr_s.html

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

How is it that a real comparison test by MotorTrend shows this car up so badly, even with the presumably better handling, lighter Coupe version, and yet the 'journalists' at Autocar can put it ahead of a brand-new, ultra-engineered SL and a just-introduced, non plus ultra-powertrained M6? Come on, the only answer is Autocar are filthy liars. Everyone knows it - apparently except some people here. Hmm.

If you start to look, you'll see their lying and deception everywhere. Take the stated Jag's acceleration time. We know Autocar didn't actually time it and just stuck in what they thought would be the most flatterring. According to Jaguar themselves, from www.jaguar.com, they don't even state a 0-62 mph time for the XKR-S Cabriolet, only for the Coupe version, which they say does 0-62 mph in 4.4 s. So where did Autocar get 4.2 s, for the presumably slower/heavier cabriolet, figure from? More BS? But of course. They had to make it look quicker than the 'dreaded Germans', to the uninitiated, union jack-waving, little englander, magazine-buying, gullible sap, who still believes Blighty still rules the waves! Hurrah! 'We gave the dreaded Hun a damn good kicking, with our over-the-hill, overpriced Indian-owned motor again, what!!'.

It's pathetic and transparent to even those with half an idea, but Haymarket and JLR still think, obviously, there's enough mental-deficients out there, with access to credit, who still fall for this tawdry garbage.

Just my 2 cents, of course!

Loved that post.

MB didn't delay the SL by two years to engineer an aluminum chassis heavier than Jaguar, that's for bloody sure!
 
Compare and contrast:

Matt Saunders, Autocar, on the 'facelifted' 2013MY Jag XJ:

What is it like?

Time has been kind to the XJ – but more in some ways than others. The last three years certainly haven’t brought a better-looking limousine to market. To these eyes, Ian Callum’s elegantly sporting giant continues to shine at least twice as brightly as any other large exec, having set the bar on aesthetic appeal almost unreachably high for the relatively conservative German opposition. Perhaps that’s why the car’s exterior design has survived its first facelift entirely unchanged.

Light, precise and informative steering, and that accommodating but still sporting ride, make the Jaguar a much more involving and talented driver’s car than the full-sized executive norm. It’s brilliant at covering ground at brisk but unhurried pace, and its capacity for effortless, flattering accuracy is unmatched.

...the XJ’s handling remains as wonderful and distinguishing as it has been for the last three years – something likely to keep it at the top of our limousine road test rankings for a while yet.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...st-drive-review-jaguar-xj-30-sc-portfolio-lwb

- strewth! Talk about sticking one's tongue down the back of someone's trousers! Hope they - Tata - pay you enough Matt, for this grovelling, dignity-shredding, sick-making tripe!

Perhaps this explains better why, contrary to the bombast and fifth-rate Madison Avenue marketing puff pieces by the likes of Autocar's Saunders, the XJ has bombed in the marketplace since 2010:

Four door luxury coupes in comparison:

http://www.autobild.de/bilder/viertuerige-luxuscoupes-im-vergleich-3570542.html

BMW 6-series Gran Coupe, Mercedes-Benz CLS, Audi A7, and Jag XJ.

Jag last.

And let's not be neglecting of Land Rover, the other brand of JLR. The Range Rover Evoque, Autocar and most all British automotive scribes tell us, is nothing short of the Second Coming, and indeed thanks to the huge, concerted hype has pulled in mug punters by the boatload. Ah, the power of lies, er, I mean Marketing.

If the Evoque is really as good as the Brits, and some American auto journos claim - looking at you, Motor Trend, with your ridiculous 2012 Truck of the Year award - how is that when it's actually compared at least semi-objectively, it invariably comes last or near last? Like this:

http://www.autozeitung.de/auto-vergleichstest/suv-vergleich-2012-14-suv-im-test-teil-1

Evoque, 11th out of 14.

Like I said, Autocar, and Brit auto 'journalists', they at least give good comedy, if sweet f.a. else!
 
Ok, so maybe all this proves is that Brit journos are somewhat biased towards "British" brands and that German scribes are somewhat biased toward German ones?
 
I like the Jags looks, but sl does convertables so well. I'd buy the Merc.
 
I have got to go check out a SL63 AMG. It looks soooo much better than the SL550.


M
 
Yeah right, if what Autocar put was true.

Sorry, the amount of cr*p being written here, being taken as gospel, has made me register.

As anyone over five years of age, not lobotomised, not on the payroll, a paid/unpaid internet shill of/for Haymarket publications/JLR's Gaydon press office knows, Autocar and Jaguar/Land Rover are notorious for being flat-out, in-yer-face liars. The only value of Autocar is comedy.

£3.20(~ $5) per week, to have one's intelligence insulted by a pack of morbidly obese, cynically jingoistic, no scruples no-marks, like Cropley, Saunders and Sutcliffe, in the pocket of Tata's slush fund/'entertainment' budget, and probably Rupert Heseltine with some share interest in Tata Motors? Come on. Open your eyes!

Let's deal with facts rather than over-the-top BS, which is Autocar/most little-englander Brit auto writers(Auto Express, What Car, Car, Pistonheads(Chris Harris excepted), etc., etc.,)' stock-in-trade.

The stated 'lower weight' and higher power-to-weight is a lie . Autocar did not weigh the cars, but state manufacturers' data. See this earlier comparison test for an example of real, actual weights:

http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...brio-new-sl500-911-carrera-s-cabriolet.44221/

Jag XKR Cabrio (not '-S') - 1,916 kg (oh, and the XKR came last).

- that's over 100 kg, 121 kilos to be precise, than the stated weight by Autocar/Jaguar for the higher-powered '-S' version, which one might expect to be a bit heavier than the standard XKR Cab..

By the way, for those who don't know of the ways of JLR's deception and mendacity, on their official material and their websites they always state weight as without driver and luggage, which is contrary to the EU/German/fast-becoming world auto industry norm. By doing this they automatically make themselves look 75 kg (68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage) lighter than the apparently obese Germans, who actually stick to the convention of EU-norm weight stating, as opposed to the former 'DIN' norm, which did not include driver and luggage weight.

The Range Rover Evoque is a particularly blatant example of JLR conning people that their products are 'lightweight', 'high-tech', 'modern' and 'premium', whereas in reality the Evoque is ~200 kgs over the claimed weight (1,850 v 1,650 kgs), fuel-guzzling, mutton-dressed-up-as-lamb(LR2 underpinnings and Ford engines), inadequately developed and engineered(electronics interfaces notoriously), shoddily built, and massively, ~£10k/$15k, overpriced.

Also note that JLR always try to deceive again by stating 0-60 mph times, instead of the now industry norm of 0-100 km/h times (0-62 mph). They of course measure 0-100 km/h like everyone else but then miraculously remove as much as 7/10 ths of a second to work back to the U.S. preferred 0-60 mph time, which is quite a stretch, and frankly ridiculous. They do this to hide the fact that their cars are uncompetitive, however many times they try to boost the power of the behind-the-pace AJ-V8 engine, and however many times they add garish plastic addenda from 'Maxpower'.

If you want to see for your own eyes, rather than Autocar/JLR's Gaydon press office's lies, just how poor a performance car the XKR-S actually is, even with 550 PS, and a ridiculous, gouging price of £105k/$133k, read and watch the video of Motor Trend's current 2012 Best Driver's Car comparo:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/...best_drivers_car_contenders/jaguar_xkr_s.html

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

How is it that a real comparison test by MotorTrend shows this car up so badly, even with the presumably better handling, lighter Coupe version, and yet the 'journalists' at Autocar can put it ahead of a brand-new, ultra-engineered SL and a just-introduced, non plus ultra-powertrained M6? Come on, the only answer is Autocar are filthy liars. Everyone knows it - apparently except some people here. Hmm.

If you start to look, you'll see their lying and deception everywhere. Take the stated Jag's acceleration time. We know Autocar didn't actually time it and just stuck in what they thought would be the most flatterring. According to Jaguar themselves, from www.jaguar.com, they don't even state a 0-62 mph time for the XKR-S Cabriolet, only for the Coupe version, which they say does 0-62 mph in 4.4 s. So where did Autocar get 4.2 s, for the presumably slower/heavier cabriolet, figure from? More BS? But of course. They had to make it look quicker than the 'dreaded Germans', to the uninitiated, union jack-waving, little englander, magazine-buying, gullible sap, who still believes Blighty still rules the waves! Hurrah! 'We gave the dreaded Hun a damn good kicking, with our over-the-hill, overpriced Indian-owned motor again, what!!'.

It's pathetic and transparent to even those with half an idea, but Haymarket and JLR still think, obviously, there's enough mental-deficients out there, with access to credit, who still fall for this tawdry garbage.

Just my 2 cents, of course!

Why don't you man-up and give credit where credit is due. The XKRS posted a better time at the VIR than the M6. It's official time at the ring is 7:51 compared to the M5's 7:55. I assume the M6 would post the same time or close to the M5. The M6 is an OK looking heavy GT car. It's made to make a not so good driver look good. The XKRS will take your head off if you don't know what you're doing. It challenges the driver and that's the way it should be IMO. The XKRS is such a good GT car that it can compete with sports cars. Some of you have even bashed the looks of the XKRS. Are you kidding me! It is by far the better looking car of the three. OK that 's subjective, I'll give you that. But to say that it's ugly? Come on!! Why can't you guys give a little bit of credit when it truly deserves it? Instead you accuse Autocar of being biased?! One of you even blamed them of placing the XKRS in a better position for the photo! Really?? You are acting so childish!
 

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