Vs Autocar: Audi A1 Quattro vs Nissan GTR


Now, here is what I would write, if a small class BMW would outdo a AWD 550+ hp Nissan GTR on ANY circuit:

"Wow, what a remarkable and respectful performance on the little one. It's amazing what the company achieved with this small car, to make it handle this good, even though it's wet and all that. Cause it's still driving against one of the worlds greatest cars ever. And for that, huge respect".

But no, in all you Beemer fanboys head, when a Audi does good, it's gotta be "because of something". You can not straight up give kudos to Audi for achieving something good. Nah, it's gotta be because of the tyres, nah, it's gotta be because the magazine is Audi-biased, nah, it's gotta be cause it was wet conditions...

Why is it so hard for you Beemerboys to give kudos and credit to Audi? The world would be a better place if you would.


Kudos for what? Replace the GTR with R8 GT and the result would probably be exactly the same. But you rather have people ignore obvious facts and praise Audi, so you can feel good at night? Seriously, did you actually freakin carry Audi in your belly for 9 months and give birth to it or something?

But, then it don't have a semi-slickstyres. Do you have a image to show, what Dunplop-tyres it use?

It's not just a question of thread pattern, the width of the tires also play a huge roll. On a wet track, the thinner the tires, the better it is cause it lessens the chance of hydroplaining. A1 Quattro has 225 section tires while GTR has, I believe, 285 section tires at the rear.
 
If I recall correctly in Autocar's wet track times almost always FWD cars do extremely well and as the A1 AWD system is fwd based its logical to assume it too should do well in such conditions, especially if its got superior rubber for the conditions. In this test the GTR never stood a chance.

I'd like to see the little A1 up against a Megane or Civic Type-R on the same rubber to see if it would still win easily, somehow I doubt it.
 
If I recall correctly in Autocar's wet track times almost always FWD cars do extremely well and as the A1 AWD system is fwd based its logical to assume it too should do well in such conditions, especially if its got superior rubber for the conditions. In this test the GTR never stood a chance.

I'd like to see the little A1 up against a Megane or Civic Type-R on the same rubber to see if it would still win easily, somehow I doubt it.

I think the Renault Clio competes with the A1 Quattro, not Megane ;)

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums... - Audi A1 quattro vs Renault Clio RS/ab2.jpg
 
^OK the Clio would be a better choice for size but the point remains that in the wet which similar rubber on each the gap wouldn't be huge.
 
Why is it so hard for you Beemerboys to give kudos and credit to Audi? The world would be a better place if you would.

lol Tumbo Tumbo Tumbo, Beemer boys just love to push your buttons since you Audi guys are always insecure :p

What matters to me in this comparison is that Audi came along way in the handling department.
 
lol Tumbo Tumbo Tumbo, Beemer boys just love to push your buttons since you Audi guys are always insecure :p
Insecure is like the worst word to use. I think it's the Beemer boys that are insecure that their golden era is over, and they just cant accept the fact that Audi beats them from time to time ;) And also, some people just dont have manners. (no names)
 
There was a video of a Fiat Panda beating a 360 Modena around a dry but short track :)
Short tracks are impossible for cars as wide as the GTR when wet... not to talk about all the other factors such as tires width and slickness and so on and so on :) Kudos to Audi :D
 
Very tight track in that video, not much wider than some single-lane roads in most parts. Sutcliffe notes the tire widths (Nissan's is too wide and can't evacuate the water fast enough), as well as the weight disparity. In Autocar's dry and wet test last year, they noted both the GT-R and the S5's performance deteriorated more in the wet than some other cars, and it had a lot to do with the weight. Compounding this would be the stiff suspension of the Track Pack; the standard GT-R's ride is already noted for being pretty hard, and this one should only be worse. In the wet, you want a bit of "give" in the suspension, to let it load up and transfer weight at a slower rate. In a car with a hard setup, the total lateral load change can happen too quickly, reducing the driver's confidence in feeling for that limit and reducing the time to adjust appropriately.
 
honestly, I don't like this test, it looks like an "ad personam" comparo in favor of Audi: rain, very tight tranck and GT-R with extreme setup.
looks like a scoop created in a test-tube
 
honestly, I don't like this test, it looks like an "ad personam" comparo in favor of Audi: rain, very tight tranck and GT-R with extreme setup.
looks like a scoop created in a test-tube

Well, the video is actually informative in that it helps to highlight the importance of having the right tires for the circumstance - but if only people actually took that away from it, instead of the stupid flag waving fan boy crap you see.
 
Well, the video is actually informative in that it helps to highlight the importance of having the right tires for the circumstance - but if only people actually took that away from it, instead of the stupid flag waving fan boy crap you see.

Agreed and what it also shows is AWD isn't always the answer in wet conditions, its only one in a combination of things.
 
ok, I'd agree... but why the GT-R with track-day setup? ;)

Heaven knows, but I'm not entirely convinced that weight is as big a factor as they are saying. I reckon if you get the tyres seriously wrong then no amount of technology or driving skill will make up for this shortfall.
 
I suspect the GT-R is chosen because it makes for an interesting comparison (website hits). It has been seen as something of a giant-killer, having beaten various Porsches, Corvettes, Lambos, etc, over the past few years. Now comes along a killer of the giant-killer. And it's something Autocar have done before:
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I can fully believe weight is a factor. Here's my theory. One of Mizuno's claims is that the GT-R is purposefully heavy to simulate the kind of downforce that he thinks is appropriate for that level of performance; I don't fully believe this explanation, and think that it probably has more to do with keeping the costs down. But he does bring up a good point, as it relates to tire dynamics and wet conditions. Like most any car, the GT-R's suspension is adjustable, and in various markets comes delivered in any of 3 basic settings: road, fast road (performance), and track. In the US many owners have complained of too-aggressive camber that quickly wears out the inside shoulders. The point of having negative camber is to keep the contact patch square to the road during hard cornering. This offers more grip than a straight 0-degree camber setup (where the car tends to "roll over" on its outside tire edge) and better manages the heat, distributing it more evenly across the surface of the tire. Thus, the mass of the car is pressed firmly into the pavement and the huge outer treadblocks are called into play to generate enormous grip.
But this is the theory in the dry. In the wet, a GT-R with that same camber is less able to achieve the roll angle that would allow it to make full use of its huge outer treadblocks, which might be moot with regard to hydroplaning anyway. The mass that had before been exploiting gravity's normal (perpendicular) force to maintain grip, now seeing that coefficient of friction greatly diminished, then has a greater propensity to push wide (horizontal direction) due to centrifugal force.
Chris Harris noted this in his GT2 vs GT-R comparo on the Nurburgring. The GT-R, which could summon seemingly magical levels of grip in the dry, struggled greatly in cold/damp conditions compared to the lighter GT2, which also benefitted from more weight over the driven wheels.
The takeaway is that under certain conditions, hight levels of power and hp/wt ratios won't account for as much as we might think. Wet conditions and a tight/road track can bring out giant-killer killers, as the weaker, smaller car can exploit more of its power more of the time. An A1 Quattro driver probably can wring more out from the Audi than a GT-R driver can on a tight, wet road.
 
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