Forester 2018 Subaru Forester
- Thread starter Monster
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The Subaru Forester is a compact crossover SUV that has been manufactured by Subaru since 1997. The first generation was built on the platform of the Impreza in the style of a taller station wagon, a style that continued to the second generation, while the third-generation model onwards moved towards a crossover SUV design. A performance model was available for the second-generation Forester in Japan as the Forester STi.
Beemer B773ER
Tire Trailblazer
This is all new???
Apparently so..I don't understand, Subaru show us some semi production ready concept car like this two years ago,
And somehow we ended up with something like the Forester.
martinbo
Staff member
XT 2.0 FA DIT being dropped is a huge disappointment but no surprise. That engine and CVT combo - particularly on pre-facelift models - can be problematic in hot (and high) conditions.
Pity, but somehow I'm expecting that the new 2.4 turbo is being readied for duty at some point in time for Forester.
Pity, but somehow I'm expecting that the new 2.4 turbo is being readied for duty at some point in time for Forester.
hoffmeister_fan
Kraftwagen König
Subie has the opportunity to catch that lightning in the bottle that they have right now. But a rep for reliability and all-weather use shouldn't be the only attributes to rely on. They really have that chance to further extend their sales blitz with more eye-appealing designs. I get "utilitarian-chic" but they could do better with their design.
Atm..Jeep is doing "utilitarian-chic" far better than Subaru if that is what they are trying to achieve. There is very little design theme going on besides hexagonal front grill and the "eagle" headlights, both are seriously mangled in this case. The new Forester is not only not appealing styling wise, it looks dated. For all the concept cars from Subaru (they aren't even that crazy or fancy), their production cars carry barely any styling development as suggested by their concept cars. Even Honda is starting to turn their design department around and have a coherent design theme. I wonder if Subaru feels the need to?
martinbo
Staff member
It's a terrific question Luw. Why would we have chosen to be on Forester no. 6? Surely there are demonstrably better SUVs at the price point? Something like:
- Mazda's lovely CX-5
- Honda's spacious and upmarket CRV
- Toyota's proven RAV4
- Nissan's big X-Trail
- VW's attractive Tiguan
- Land Rover's con-job DiscoverLander Sport
...moving just a bit upmarket the German premium compacy SUVs are just about in reach:
- BMW's class-leading X3
- Audi's sought-after Q5
- Merc's classy GLC
- Volvo's gorgeous XC60
So many choices and yet...
- The CX-5 is an on-roader only with much less interior space than the Forester; FWD and semi-permanent AWD
- Ditto for the CR-V which is more city slicker than rough road lifestyler; FWD and semi-permanent AWD
- RAV4 has a limited engine ange and with only 180mm of ground clearance it's much less adventurous than it looks; FWD and semi-permanent AWD
- X-Trail - diesel engines + 4x4 only come with a manual 'box; FWD and semi-permanent AWD
- Tiguan is smaller and much more geared around city use as evidenced in the proliferation of R-Line models on the road; FWD and semi-permanent AWD
- Discovery Sport is just plain dodgy with ancient tech dressed up like a Range Rover; Semi-permanent AWD
- BMW X3 - great looks, performance, interior, 204 mm of ground clearance is adequate but, specced up, the price is hair-raising and who wants to take an M-Sport to the bush?; Permanent AWD
- Audi's Q5 now comes with a dodgy (especially off-road) dual clutcher instead of the far better 8 speed auto it used to - expensive as hell; Semi-permanent AWD
- Merc's GLC - terrific if you option with the off-road package for off-the-beaten track excursions; Permanent AWD
- Volvo's XC60 is an unknown quantity in rough-road conditions; FWD and semi-permanent AWD
The Forester has an unmatched combination of performance (XT in particular), ruggedness, genuine off road ability (incl 220mm of ground clearance), modern platform, automatic transmission (albeit a less desirable CVT), interior space, interior specification, still world-class permanent AWD drivertrain and overall satisfaction of ownership. If your lifestyle-oriented criteria carry a considerable weighting then the Forester is still in a class of its own.
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
Aren't they also semi-permanent based on RWD. For constant permanent is needed a system with central differential (open, lockable, torsen etc) that can overcome the difference in the speed of the front and rear axle during taking a turn. All the clutch based systems need to be decoupled when taking a turn except if some of the tires is already slipping
Centurion
Apex Apex Predator
Thanks Martin. Torque vectoring to individual wheels isn't even an option on many affordable SUVs. Would you the the maximum torque the Forester can deliver to each axle or wheel?
I never appreciated the value of AWD until a few weeks ago when the UK was overwhelmed(unprepared) for heavy snow fall. Many of my neighbours didn't leave their house for days and several of my colleagues didn't make it to work.
For a change, it was good to use AWD and high ground clearance for more than just mounting high curbs during nursery drop offs. Traction was surprisingly good and I was able to get power down and maintain a higher speed than other drivers. The X3 can distribute torque between front and rear axles but also to individual wheels if equipped with Performance Control. For the most part I took it easy and braking distance wasn't great.
Here are photos taken during snowpocalypse. Where I parked below, all the bays would usually be occupied but when I arrived in the morning they were vacant.
SDNR
Kraftwagen König
Your love for the Forester is slightly bemusing for me ....but I appreciate your loyalty to it.
martinbo
Staff member
Why be bemused?
The Forester is a one-of-a-kind. Look deeper and there's not that much out there as I've gone to lengths to explain.Here's a true story for you:
Two models back and me & family are driving around southern Mozambique coastal dunes in our trusty XT. Now, Foresters are not hardcore off-roaders like Prados, Fortuners, Pajeros and Cruisers but if you know your vehicle and you know off-roading you get to turn bemusement into genuine surprise. In the height of summer it gets stinking hot and the sand goes soft. Really soft.
Idiots who think they know how to four-by-four churn the tracks up and loads of vehicles get properly stuck.
So we're bumbling along merrily along the sand track (this is coastal dune = soft beach sand) on our way to Hotel Phaphalati from Malongane and I see that my pace is a little slow for the Land Cruiser pickup (the god of off-roading) behind me so, when the time's right, I pull off the track to allow said Cruiser past. The Cruiser bakkie pulls up alongside to a dead stop. Two burly looking farmers give the thumbs up (well actually they were raising their 2M beers) and one of the two very attractive ladies who were standing in the load bay holding on to the roll bar looked down from her perch and said "wow - that's impressive in your little Subaru!" Which was a weirdly proud yet emasculating moment in its own right.
Honestly, I've had people pointing at the Forester as it passed far more capable (but driven poorly) yet stuck vehicles in all manner of rough road scenarios.
Very few of the cars in my list can compare in this regard.
martinbo
Staff member
I don't know where you got this information from but it is not the case. The multi-clutch centre differential in cars like the RWD-architectured AWD applications seen in Merc and BMW do not decouple when the vehicle is taking a corner. The whole purpose of the centre diff clutch pack is to allow slip between the front and rear propshafts despite their static torque distribution ratios e.g. 40% - 60% front to rear.
Many soft-roaders now have a feature which brakes a spinning wheel to - in effect - distribute torque and this is touted as Torque Vectoring. Like I've said many times in the past - this isn't true torque vectoring in my opinion. McLaren will differ with me and that's fine - what do I know? To my mind true torque vectoring involves the multiplication of torque on a given driveshaft by employing electro-hydraulics or electric motors on the differential to boost torque to the desired driveshaft.
The current Forester has this and, in addition, has a feature called X-Mode which modulates throttle openings, wheel-spin and hill descent speed in off-road scenarios. I've used it and it's quite effective.
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
It is a transfer case and doesn't act like a differential. It activates the clutch pack when the system senses that the rear axle is slipping or it is tending to slip, than the VTG motor applier the necessary pressure to the clutches to variably send torque to the front axle and when the traction of the rear axle is regained it declutches the system. If it is constantly engaged (it is only constantly active, which is different), when the car is driven through a twisty road it would burn the clutches.
martinbo
Staff member
It's a common term - centre differential - despite the myriad of technical layouts out there. The fact is, it's a mechanical device which allows for a differential in rotation speeds between the front and rear propshafts. All the same, for the default torque split there is a permanent - yet variable - mechanical connection between the front and rear wheels. At no point are the front and rear axles de-coupled.
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
The differential influences both sides, in this case only the front axle is being varied, the rear is always with the same revolutions like the transmission output shaft
DocM
Highway Hunter
Subaru has done it again. They show you enticing concept cars and let you down with production version. Had this been a "facelift" I would have said okay, not bad, and moved on. On the plus side, the interior looks clean and durable. There is gear lever, nothing like the newer electronic dial or buttons or gimmicky things nowadays. More pluses: still a boxer 4 engine and tried and tested AWD. Surely Subaru could have extracted a bit more power from that 2.5L and keep it NA. That is probably my biggest disappointment with it.
martinbo
Staff member
Maybe this is a language barrier thing. But in technical terms, you're wrong. Go have a look around - xDrive and other such systems are able to vary the amount of torque to both axles. BMW press info even states that 100% of the drive can be directed to the front axle.
BMW xDrive all-wheel drive system explained | Practical Motoring
How Does XDrive Work?
There are now two variants of xDrive – an on demand system which drives the front wheels and rears when required, as seen in the latest X1s, and what I consider to be the ‘real’, original xDrive which works differently, and I’d say properly for an all wheel drive vehicle. The rest of this article refers to the original xDrive.
This starts with a 40:60 split of the torque from front to rear. This is instantly good news, as most all-wheel drive systems merely power the front wheels and let the rears trail, driving them only when the computers detect a loss of traction (with the exception of Subaru). Those systems are never, ever as effective as the likes of xDrive because if all wheels are driving there’s less chance of slip in the first place, and for enthusiast drivers, there’s the sharper handling of a rear-drive biased car because the front wheels have more traction available for steering.
Interestingly, this 40:60 split also means the centre clutch that distributes torque front:rear is always working. Other systems which only occasionally drive the rear wheels have centre clutches designed to run for short periods only, which means they overheat after a bit of use, leaving you in 2WD and most probably, stuck. This irritating design flaw shouldn’t be a problem for any xDrive vehicle.
But the 40:60 ratio is not fixed, and the computers can send 100% of the torque to either the front or the rear axles via an electrically operated centre clutch. Imagine a hillstart with both rear wheels on ice and fronts on tarmac and you’ll see why that’s important.
But xDrive is clever enough to distribute torque even without wheelspin, for example during cornering. Let’s say the car is starting to understeer, which means running wide, caused by more grip at the rear than the front. Simple way to fix that is to ask the front tyres to do less driving, leaving more grip for turning, so that’s what xDrive does, simply biases torque to the rear. Same deal for oversteer where the front has more grip than the rear, it biases torque to the front, leaving the rear tyres more grip for turning.
Nothing I've asserted is contradicted by readily available information all over the web.
If you have superior information then please post links to this.
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Subaru
Subaru is the automobile manufacturing division of the Japanese transportation conglomerate
Subaru Corporation (formerly known as Fuji Heavy Industries). Founded on 15 July 1953, it is
headquartered in Ebisu, Shibuya, Japan.
