SL-Class 2012 Mercedes SL (R231) - First Drives Thread

[Merc1]

The Granturismo isn't the car the SL is. Sure it is more exciting and better to look at, but living with it is going to be different. The problem is that there are many more cars in the SL's space now.

I've almost stopped really putting any weight on your take anymore because Mercedes doesn't do anything right by you. Dealers here have waiting lists for the car so again, not sure what your deal is. One customer doesn't like the car and that should be seen as a real problem? As if every other Mercedes doesn't or hasn't turned someone off upon introduction.

M

 

[K-A]

Taking natural inflation into the equation (which says that new cars should outsell old cars even if they were keeping merely steady in popularity/market share during their respective times), I would wager that the new SL won't outsell or "outpopular" the old one. Maybe it's because the styling doesn't seem to tug at the emotional strings this time around, or maybe not....

.... my reasoning, however, is that I feel Mercedes is slowly but surely bringing down the desire-factor for their more expensive cars. The current CL, for example.... nice car, but the least popular CL of all time. Is this perhaps because you can get the exact same front on a C Class? Or similar styling on an "E Coupe"? I'm sure it is. The SL has a front that is now shared with about every M-B with a price tag that's a fraction of it. Frankly, they're bringing their product line downmarket, and it will eventually hurt the "cachet" of the higher priced cars.

Like I said, my Cousin for example, is in the market for something over $100K, preferably a Convertible and definitely a 2 door. I asked him about the SL, and he said that with all the cheaper cars M-B has out, not to mention an SLK that looks so much like it, he doesn't see a point to drop that kind of coin on an M-B any more.... especially when spending that kind of cash, you need some exclusivity factor. Sure, the SL will still be exclusive, but its styling cues, design language, and parts of which it consists of (interior bits, available tech, etc.) will not be.

 

[Pagani]

I am one of the more ardent MB fans out there, and I agree that what MB did with the SL is atrocious. For an SL to be polarizing on looks is unforgivable. People would pick a lot on the 230, but in the end they would say "At least it looks like no other." This SL? Looks like a bigger SLK, which preceded by at least a year, and has exactly the same interior. You just buy better materials, bigger engine and tires, SLK XL.

Having seen the sketches of the SLC recently, I am waiting for another MB to take the place of my most favorite car.

 

[Merc1]

Taking natural inflation into the equation (which says that new cars should outsell old cars even if they were keeping merely steady in popularity/market share during their respective times), I would wager that the new SL won't outsell or "outpopular" the old one. Maybe it's because the styling doesn't seem to tug at the emotional strings this time around, or maybe not....

.... my reasoning, however, is that I feel Mercedes is slowly but surely bringing down the desire-factor for their more expensive cars. The current CL, for example.... nice car, but the least popular CL of all time. Is this perhaps because you can get the exact same front on a C Class? Or similar styling on an "E Coupe"? I'm sure it is. The SL has a front that is now shared with about every M-B with a price tag that's a fraction of it. Frankly, they're bringing their product line downmarket, and it will eventually hurt the "cachet" of the higher priced cars.

Like I said, my Cousin for example, is in the market for something over $100K, preferably a Convertible and definitely a 2 door. I asked him about the SL, and he said that with all the cheaper cars M-B has out, not to mention an SLK that looks so much like it, he doesn't see a point to drop that kind of coin on an M-B any more.... especially when spending that kind of cash, you need some exclusivity factor. Sure, the SL will still be exclusive, but its styling cues, design language, and parts of which it consists of (interior bits, available tech, etc.) will not be.

How do you know that the current CL is the least popular CL of all time? I seriously doubt the same styling is pulling down the CL or the SL. If they're being pulled down at all.

Think about it, the market has changed. The SL and CL stood pretty much alone just a few years ago, now there are plenty of hot cars in the same price range.

What tech on a top end BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Lexus or any other luxury make is exclusive to only that one top car? What about the SL is shared with the lesser Mercedes models that isn't likewise shared at other makes?

M

 

[Sovereign]

I agree with K-A on Mercedes' strategy with car design which in my opinion also, isn't working anymore. Mercedes needs to have a different design language for its higher end coupes and convertibles since they are using the beloved star grill on every new models which are mostly low priced cars. The exclusivity factor is gone. And I think the new SL's odd front end is the result of Mercedes trying very hard to find individuality for the famous SL and also trying to keep the design language of old. Same is the case with the interior designs that are basically cut and paste job overlooking the price factor and hence, exclusivity that is needed for higher end models.
I read some negative comments on the current CL in another thread. The CL would have been an attractive car if the design was exclusive just as back in the old days. IMO there is nothing wrong with its design inside or outside, but the outside is a common site now. These days it is difficult to distinguish a top of the line Mercedes to the "lowly" A class as they share the same design language. To sum up, the star grill does not turn my head any more since it is so "common".

 

[K-A]

Spot on, Soverign. Back in the day, when M-B made primarily expensive cars, the "trickle down theory" for design elements worked as a novelty to move the cheaper cars. Now, all the design elements are featured on mostly the cheaper cars since they have more cheaper cars. Now the more expensive cars simply look diluted and too much like the cheaper cars. Not to mention, naturally in order to keep things within budget and product lines efficient, they're probably all built on the same lines (?), use the same parts, same fit and finish, same attention to detail, etc. Even the designs are as high quality top to bottom.... sure, we might like some more than others, and the more restraint of the expensive cars or the more daring-nes of the cheaper cars, but as designs, they're all probably done with the same care and passion.

Back in the day, I wouldn't flinch at spending over $100K on a Benz. Now, I don't think I would.

 

[K-A]

You guys, don't hate on Mercedes-Benz, at least there are some distinctions between their cabins. In fact, they aren't the only one's with the lack of exclusivity on higher end models. Manufacturers like BMW and Audi have it far worse when it comes to sharing strong similarities with their interior's cabins.

That's very true. Only difference is, I would have never thought to pay over $100K for a BMW or Audi. M-B has always been the more prestige/high-end focused of them, so these moves downmarket, and the homogenizing of styling cues from bottom to top is more of a shock and shift from how we've perceived the brand in the past.

 

[Merc1]

How in the world is the CL design common? Just because it has a star on the front like other Mercedes models? If that is all one can see then I feel sorry for them because the rest of the car is about as premium as a Mercedes can be.


M

 

[K-A]

The language is still similar to cheaper M-B models. Yes, it still stands apart due to sheer size, nature, and more refinements all around, but to the layman, it still looks like a Benz, which unfortunately is seeing its entry/average price drop year by year. I don't think anyone's head would turn if they saw one coming because for all they know it could be a C-Class.

 

[Merc1]

The "language" is the same on all brands across all their models. That is with any car brand you can name so I don't see what the point is. There is however no cheaper Mercedes that shares the CL's overall look. The C-Coupe definitely doesn't neither does the E-Coupe.

The 190E, 300E, and 560SEL all had the same front back in the day, only difference was size. If one can't tell a CL apart from a C-Class then something is wrong with their vision IMO. One car is huge the other isn't. The hood on the CL is different.

Even with the one sausage different lengths practice, compared to Audi and BMW, Mercedes still distinguishes their cars better IMO.


M

 

[Wolfgang]

Any differences detectable?



Mercedes-Benz C-Class Coupe (2012)
Mercedes-Benz CL-Class (2011)

 

[Gianclaudio]

Com'on, there is NOTHING similar between the S/CL to the rest of the Mercs. Really. They do look and feel absolutely premium and have the best interior this side of a Rolls/Bentley.

But I agree that the new SL is almost 1-series ugly, with one of the most ridiculous headlights ever made. Mercede's style is easily the worst of the big three, a shame as the cars per se are the best in almost 20 years.

Just fire those crappy designers....

 

[Pagani]

Any differences detectable?

The bottom one looks worth at least three times the price of the upper one, no deciphering needed here.

 

[K-A]

I'm mainly talking about "brand value". Back in the day, M-B's commanded almost exclusively a higher price tag, if you saw a model with a Star in the grille, you knew it was special.

Now, M-B's price-average is dropping, therefore more on the roads, therefore less incentive for those to spend big money on one (how many parts and design cues are shared between the SL and SLK? Even the A?). The front Star grille is the main focus point on this "dilution", as WE can tell the very subtle nuances, but most people can't, and the front is a very important factor for any car.

In the 90's, if I had $130K to spend on an SL, or CL Benz, I wouldn't think twice, I'd go right for it. Now, I just couldn't. Sure they offer some things that the cars less than half that don't, but IMO you get enough of the M-B virtues and experience, not to mention actual parts, engineering, drivetrains, tech, and design language with cars that cost much less.

As for BMW and Audi, they're the worst at this, M-B still strives for at least SOME distinction with their upper models.... but they have to, as they're really the only at of the bunch that were really known to have extremely expensive cars.

My prediction? Give it 20 years and M-B might be known more as a moderately-priced Luxury brand rather than the ultra-Luxury brand that it still somewhat is today. The cheaper cars sharing cues from the more expensive cars will steal away the "halo effect".

As for the CL.... my purpose isn't to bash the car. I'd love to have one, believe me. But I just don't think it was that special this time around. Probably the CLS's fault.... see how this works? M-B got you to drop $80K instead of $100+K because the CLS was "enough".... now, when the mini-CLS comes out, it might have a chance to do the same to the CLS.... and thus goes the brands price-per-product value average dropping.

 

[K-A]

I mean, c'mon, to the general masses, this could be any Merc. Back in the day this front end would have told you "Sports Coupe for over $100K". Now, it could tell you "MPV" "SUV" "Entry Sedan", etc. They're all proportioned differently but share the same language. Now the next CL will probably have the same softnose look that has been diluted from the SLS, i.e shared by the CLS, A, B, etc. All just proportioned and sized differently. I understand that there's really no other way they can do it whilst maintaining brand family-identity, but my issue is that it's a sign of the changing "value position" of M-B cars.

I'm not talking about us enthusiasts who can notice what makes this a "CL", I'm talking about brand identity, and its diluted by various models to the point where the expensive M-B's are getting less desirable and less distinct.

At least the S and E stand alone with the hood star and Luxury grille. The S always commands respect because its front end isn't diluted so heavily.

 

[Merc1]

K/A I don't think anyone is going to see what you're talking about because out in the real world a CL doesn't look like just any Mercedes. Mercedes is no different from any other brand when it comes having the same design theme across all their models. How in the world is the CL diluted because it shares the same or similar front end design with the even more expensive SLS? Just doesn't make sense. Now you're talking about brand value vs they all look the same which is what you were saying at first. I think its a dead horse or non issue because I'm not sure you know what you're trying to say here.


M

 

[K-A]

It's not too clear in my head to articulate it right, true, but basically to make it short: I used to think I'd spend uber frivolous money on a Merc, now I'd only spend frivolous money on them (Luxury is always partially frivolous). I look at the SL and the $128K sticker on it (at the Dealer), and it just doesn't stand apart from the much cheaper models so much anymore, not in design language, material or build quality so much.

As a consumer, if I'm spending over $100 or so K, I want some exclusivity and distinction. With the current crop, more SUV's coming, the A, the CLA, etc. all having similar enough design languages and parts sharing, not to mention product dilution on the roads, I just don't feel that so much from M-B for that price.... anymore. For $50-$70K I still look to M-B first and foremost. I guess Porsche is the best Germanic step to fulfill those frivolous desires until they inevitably go down the same road in some decades.

 

[Wolfgang]

more SUV's coming, the A, the CLA, etc. all having similar enough design languages and parts sharing, not to mention product dilution on the roads.

MB takes care to offer only rather limited numbers of SUVs in my opinion. For example the R-Class was just cancelled in the US and some of MB's only SUV production plant is actually being converted from SUVs to sedans. The ML, the most popular one at present, is only available in limited supply of up to 3000 or so per month. Regarding the A/B-Class based SUV, it will be a long while before the first one is seen on the roads in Southern California, presently planned not before the summer of 2014, and then probably not in any large numbers. So your E-Class can continue to enjoy some exclusivity until then.

 

[Merc1]

So do you think back in the day of the 560SL, 560SEL, 190E and 300E, the SL stood apart? It looked just like those cars right down to the ribbed taillights. You're confused about what "design language" is vs a star on the grille. That is the only thing the current SL has that is exactly the same with lesser Mercedes models today. If anything the only car that apes the SL is the SLK. On the other hand, one sit down in the SL will tell you that it is a seriously premium car compared to anything else in the Mercedes lineup right now. K/A I don't know what you're talking about if you think the SL isn't built any better than a C-Class or even an E-Class. Again, back in the day all Mercedes models were built to the same bank-vault standard. If anything all Mercedes' have just returned to that standard in varying degrees. The new SL clearly stands out in build quality against anything else Mercedes makes right now.

This otherworldly difference between one Mercedes to another has never, ever existed in the manner in which you're talking about. Never. How could they change the "design language" so differently from one Mercedes to another and still have a cohesive lineup? If anything Mercedes does that already, better than Audi or BMW. All Audis really look alike and again if it weren't for their varying sizes one could be confused. A 3-Series on the road looks just like a baby 5-Series until you get right up on the car. The E doesn't look like the C and the S looks like neither of them, yet they all convey that they're Mercedes-Benzes quite well. I simply just don't see what you're talking about here at all. You can't tell a C from a CL, but you can tell a 3 from a 5er BMW?

If you buy an SL, and unless you live in a rich area the price is your exclusivity compared to "regular" cars or other less Mercedes. SLKs are the only fly in the milk, and they're rare too if sales are anything to go by.

I would love for Mercedes to be like they were back in the 90's before the ML, CLK and the SLK, but those days are over and they have to flush out the line with cheaper cars to stay alive since they don't have a mass marketer in bed with them anymore. Long as the S-Class does what is is supposed to do and rest of the upper end models do what they're supposed do I don't really see a problem anymore. An A-Class doesn't make an S-Class any less capable or desirable.

Also on the flip side there is nothing exclusive about a Mercedes-Benz anymore. Here in North Dallas, they're everywhere. SL, S, E, C, and a SLS every now and then. You want true exclusivity then you buy a V12 or AMG Black Series Mercedes, that is about as exclusive as it gets.

You want true exclusivity you buy a Maserati or Aston-Martin or certain Bentley or Rollers. There is nothing truly exclusive about a MB, BMW or Audi anymore, aside from the rarest models they sell. The SL will be all over the place in a year or so whether or not it looks like a lesser Mercedes or not, it will be everywhere in 12-18 months as it is one of the must have cars this summer.


M

 

[K-A]

Wait, wait, wait, WAIT... Did you just say that Porsche's lineup is not similar? Let me just remind you, Porsche designers are the laziest people when it comes to the drawing board. In fact, the same goes for Audi and BMW. We are all aware of what Xerox machines do, but I guess these companies seem to want to prove to the world that Xerox machines work for decades with their designs. Mercedes-Benz is a different story; their models are not copy-paste derivations from class-to-class designations or from generation-to-generation models.

No no no, I'm not talking about similarity. I'm talking about brand prestige in which you get when spending frivolous (luxury item) money. Porsche's lineup is concise, and the entry fee is much higher than M-B's, as well as the average price per purchase. It just makes them more worthy of "dream car status" these days (until VW inevitably mucks that up, but we're still ways away).

I agree with everyone that M-B BY FAR is the most creative when it comes to differentiation. BMW and Audi are ridiculous with the homogeny. What I'm saying is that some of us who had this "halo effect" toward M-B's of being purely high end Luxury/expensive cars which had some exclusivity factor, don't see that so much anymore, which lowers our "price we'd pay for an M-B product" aspect.

This is purposeful by M-B, and CERTAINLY doesn't detract from their products (getting better than ever technically speaking), but their brand identity is shifting, and for me who has has a certain emotional connection to the M-B brand, it's unfortunate.

Re: Porsche VS M-B. Porsche doesn't have a FWD Hatchback meant for kids who are looking for their first car, or a plethora of SUV's of all shapes and sizes, etc. IMO, Porsche still has that "halo" effect, which M-B is letting slip with every "lower priced" car they introduce.

Wolfgang: I agree a bit, as I'm okay with their current SUV lineup, though the GLK I feel wasn't necessary and isn't befitting of M-B's "identity", however, I was mostly basing my statement on the rumors of the seemingly handful of new SUV's coming? I.e the "X6 style", the smaller A/B one, the "Coupe version", etc. etc.? Maybe I confused some with the others.

Merc: I understand that it's what they need to do. All I'm saying is that it's made it so that I personally wouldn't spend insane amounts of money on an M-B anymore, nor does my jaw drop when I see a cool sporty front end with a Star grille anymore.

M-B is still my favorite brand and I don't see that changing, but I cringe every time I hear they're releasing a new, smaller, "cheaper level" model.