Vs 2011 Ford Mustang 5.0 Vs. 2010 BMW M3 E92

[adeel2010]

You haven't driven either of the cars mentioned in this comparison.

I've driven the Mustang and I've driven the older M3. I'm sure the newer is even better.

 

[Porsche Guy]

I've driven the Mustang and I've driven the older M3. I'm sure the newer is even better.

You've already driven the new 5.0 V8 mustang? And you're going to give BMW a free pass on the current M3 because you liked the last one? Couldn't the new one be worse than the previous generation?

 

[Kowalski]

LOL, I already made that thread here.

Yep that's right I work for Ford, u caught me!

HAHA! Gotcha!

 

[Porsche Guy]

Guy, if you don't understand this then there isn't any helping you out here. Common sense says a F150 doesn't drive like a Mustang. Compare apples to apples. Drive a Ford Explorer and a X5 and see what the differences are, same type of vehicle by their respective manufacturers.

I'm just replying to what you write. Try and be more specific if you have a problem. Obviously, a F150 doesn't handle like a Mustang but you said "Ford drives like a Ford" so I want to know what you mean by that? How does a "BMW drive like a BMW"? Like I mentioned earlier, not all BMW's drive the same and the same goes for Fords. So what actual driving qualities define these brands? I personally don't think that either BMW or Ford have brand wide driving characteristics. It's all marketing BS.

Already answered this in previous post.

Where? I reread your earlier posts and couldn't find anything about the specific qualities that define a good all around car. Do you place particular value on MPG, interior space, trunk space, interior sound levels, suspension compliance, etc. when looking at an all around car? I would assume that everyone values certain qualities for cars that they drive on a daily basis.. What is it about the M3 that makes it such a good all around car? How do you know it's such a good car when you haven't even driven it? I remember being terribly disappointed with the driving experience of an e46 M3 (particularly the clutch and shifter action) after lusting after one for so long.

I'm not stereotyping anything. If you don't know the difference between these 2 cars then there is no need to continue here because you're obviously lost on what these 2 cars are about or what they're strong at. Have you not been paying attention to the Mustangs development? Live axle means constants tweaks every year to get better handling out of it, M3 came out the one of the best handling cars ever, straight out the box. Have you ever driven a Mustang? Ever been in one and hit a bump in a corner? If not then what is the point here?

These cars are not the same. Everyone can see that. But you have yet to produce anything giving reason as to why the M3 is better than the Mustang.

The only person who would think the Mustang is a better car is the one who wants to spend less and doesn't care for the way the M3 goes about its business. Such qualities I have already mentioned in a previous post.

The only person? I think that's a pretty bold and unfounded statement.

 

[Merc1]

I'm just replying to what you write. Try and be more specific if you have a problem. Obviously, a F150 doesn't handle like a Mustang but you said "Ford drives like a Ford" so I want to know what you mean by that? How does a "BMW drive like a BMW"? Like I mentioned earlier, not all BMW's drive the same and the same goes for Fords. So what actual driving qualities define these brands? I personally don't think that either BMW or Ford have brand wide driving characteristics. It's all marketing BS.

Really? Tell me do you know what a Porsche drives like? If you can't understand that a Ford drives differently from a BMW then that it too bad, I feel sorry for you. I just gave the reason why a Mustang drives they way it does compared to a BMW. If you don't believe a BMW drives a certain way and its all marketing the so be it, but please stop insulting people who know the difference by trying to convince me or anyone else that a live-axle Mustang is on the same level when it comes to driving.

Where? I reread your earlier posts and couldn't find anything about the specific qualities that define a good all around car. Do you place particular value on MPG, interior space, trunk space, interior sound levels, suspension compliance, etc. when looking at an all around car? I would assume that everyone values certain qualities for cars that they drive on a daily basis.. What is it about the M3 that makes it such a good all around car? How do you know it's such a good car when you haven't even driven it? I remember being terribly disappointed with the driving experience of an e46 M3 (particularly the clutch and shifter action) after lusting after one for so long.

I'll say this again, I've driven the Mustang. Not a 2011 model obviously but a 2008 or 2009 model right before the facelift, don't remember the exact year. It didn't drive like a BMW then nor did it drive as good. The BMW simply does everything related to driving better. Go drive both cars if you can't see this being true.

These cars are not the same. Everyone can see that. But you have yet to produce anything giving reason as to why the M3 is better than the Mustang.

What part of live-axle, inferior construction (relative to the BMW) don't you get? A Mustang simply isn't built like a BMW, nor is its chassis as advanced. This will be the 3rd time I've said this. Again inspect both cars.

The only person? I think that's a pretty bold and unfounded statement.

The type of buyers, not a single person.


M

 

[Porsche Guy]

Really? Tell me do you know what a Porsche drives like? If you can't understand that a Ford drives differently from a BMW then that it too bad, I feel sorry for you. I just gave the reason why a Mustang drives they way it does compared to a BMW. If you don't believe a BMW drives a certain way and its all marketing the so be it, but please stop insulting people who know the difference by trying to convince me or anyone else that a live-axle Mustang is on the same level when it comes to driving.

I can't tell you what a "Porsche" drives like because it's a brand, not a car and that's at the core of this entire discussion. "BMWs drive like BMWs" doesn't make sense because BMW is a brand and not a particular car. Get it?

I'll say this again, I've driven the Mustang. Not a 2011 model obviously but a 2008 or 2009 model right before the facelift, don't remember the exact year. It didn't drive like a BMW then nor did it drive as good. The BMW simply does everything related to driving better. Go drive both cars if you can't see this being true.

Since we're not talking about the 08/09 model, it's irrelevant. The '10 Mustang has been praised for it's drastic improvement in interior quality. I'll go hunting for reviews if you don't believe me but this is nit picking and not really relevant to the discussion.

What part of live-axle, inferior construction (relative to the BMW) don't you get? A Mustang simply isn't built like a BMW, nor is its chassis as advanced. This will be the 3rd time I've said this. Again inspect both cars.

more advanced technology doesn't translate to a better car. Electric steering and BMW's active steering are easy examples of new tech that's isn't necessarily better. The assumption that new tech is always an improvement needs to be reassessed.

The type of buyers, not a single person.

I understand. I should have been more clear in the last post.

 

[Merc1]

I can't tell you what a "Porsche" drives like because it's a brand, not a car and that's at the core of this entire discussion. "BMWs drive like BMWs" doesn't make sense because BMW is a brand and not a particular car. Get it?

Nope and neither do you. You're right a BMW is just a brand. We can stick the BMW "brand" name on anything it will do. Got it. Makes sense to me now. The BMW brand was made up by marketing BS, not because the cars that wore the brand exuded certain characteristics or were engineered in any specific manner.

Since we're not talking about the 08/09 model, it's irrelevant. The '10 Mustang has been praised for it's drastic improvement in interior quality. I'll go hunting for reviews if you don't believe me but this is nit picking and not really relevant to the discussion.

Seeing as how you're not driven a Mustang at all, you're whole stance here was irrelevant at best. I have been in the new Mustang twice now and the M3 many times and the Ford doesn't match the BMW in build or material quality. Keep thinking that it does. I don't have to drive either one of them to see what their respective build qualities are like. I know the Mustang has had a revelation, but if you'd know what Ford started with you wouldn't be wasting time trying to convince anyone that the Mustang GT is the equal to a BMW M3. Even now unless you get the premium package on the Mustang the interior is typical Ford cheapness. Go to the dealer and see for yourself.

more advanced technology doesn't translate to a better car. Electric steering and BMW's active steering are easy examples of new tech that's isn't necessarily better. The assumption that new tech is always an improvement needs to be reassessed.

Problem being is that in this case it does. While you're digging up the reviews about the Mustang's new found interior quality find the ones that talk about the limitations of a live-axle layout. Why on earth do you think that Ford is at the drawing board every model year concerning the Mustang's handling? They're working with a flawed design/layout at best.


M

 

[adeel2010]

You've already driven the new 5.0 V8 mustang? And you're going to give BMW a free pass on the current M3 because you liked the last one? Couldn't the new one be worse than the previous generation?

I've driven a 2009 or 2010. But the M3, newer or older, being the benchmark in this segment, I'm sure a puny little $30,000 Mustang can't beat it in anything but price.

 

[Porsche Guy]

Nope and neither do you. You're right a BMW is just a brand. We can stick the BMW "brand" name on anything it will do. Got it. Makes sense to me now. The BMW brand was made up by marketing BS, not because the cars that wore the brand exuded certain characteristics or were engineered in any specific manner.

Do you seriously believe that every BMW model is "the ultimate driving machine"? That's marketing BS designed to build the brand. More importantly, I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you mean by "BMWs drive like BMWs".

Seeing as how you're not driven a Mustang at all, you're whole stance here was irrelevant at best. I have been in the new Mustang twice now and the M3 many times and the Ford doesn't match the BMW in build or material quality. Keep thinking that it does. I don't have to drive either one of them to see what their respective build qualities are like. I know the Mustang has had a revelation, but if you'd know what Ford started with you wouldn't be wasting time trying to convince anyone that the Mustang GT is the equal to a BMW M3. Even now unless you get the premium package on the Mustang the interior is typical Ford cheapness. Go to the dealer and see for yourself.

Like I said in my last post, interior quality is not relevant to the discussion so let's drop it.

Problem being is that in this case it does. While you're digging up the reviews about the Mustang's new found interior quality find the ones that talk about the limitations of a live-axle layout. Why on earth do you think that Ford is at the drawing board every model year concerning the Mustang's handling? They're working with a flawed design/layout at best.

I understand the limitations of the solid rear axle. It doesn't mean the car can't be as competent as a car with an IRS setup.

I've driven a 2009 or 2010. But the M3, newer or older, being the benchmark in this segment, I'm sure a puny little $30,000 Mustang can't beat it in anything but price.

You haven't driven the current M3 or the new Mustang but you're "sure" that the Mustang can't compete with the M3 on anything but price. Why is that?

 

[Merc1]

Do you seriously believe that every BMW model is "the ultimate driving machine"? That's marketing BS designed to build the brand. More importantly, I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you mean by "BMWs drive like BMWs".

No, did you see anything in my post about every BMW being the ultimate driving machine? I said that BMWs have certain driving characteristics and from my experience they do, at least every one that I have driven. A BMW drives like a BMW - It means engine, brakes, steering all working in unison for seamless, precise performance. No waiting for the back end to catch the front as a live-axle suspended car can sometimes feel. Just the right amount of feedback, moreso than a Mercedes or Audi, but still leaning towards a luxury car and not a Porsche or other all out sports cars.

Like I said in my last post, interior quality is not relevant to the discussion so let's drop it.

It most certainly is, that is part of the "all around" part of this discussion and the Ford doesn't match the BMW. Period.

I understand the limitations of the solid rear axle. It doesn't mean the car can't be as competent as a car with an IRS setup.

Don't know what world you live in, but if that was the case then every other car company on earth wouldn't bother with engineering IRS for their cars. They could just save the money and go with a live axle.


M

 

[adeel2010]

You haven't driven the current M3 or the new Mustang but you're "sure" that the Mustang can't compete with the M3 on anything but price. Why is that?

Lets look for some track times comparing the two and you'll see which is better.

The M3 is just the most well-rounded car in the segment. Driving dynamics, a touch of luxury, class, prestige, heritage...it has it all. The mustang, on the other hand, has HP.

The Mustang is a poor man's M3, and that's never a good thing.

 

[Porsche Guy]

No, did you see anything in my post about every BMW being the ultimate driving machine? I said that BMWs have certain driving characteristics and from my experience they do, at least every one that I have driven.

"....At least in the one's I have driven". So is it possible that other BMW don't drive as well?

A BMW drives like a BMW - It means engine, brakes, steering all working in unison for seamless, precise performance. No waiting for the back end to catch the front as a live-axle suspended car can sometimes feel. Just the right amount of feedback, moreso than a Mercedes or Audi, but still leaning towards a luxury car and not a Porsche or other all out sports cars.

"Engine, brakes, steering all working in unison for seamless, precise performance" is opinion, not fact. Have you driven an e65 7 series? I don't think it would fit your description of driving like a BMW. Its controls are pretty sloppy.

It most certainly is, that is part of the "all around" part of this discussion and the Ford doesn't match the BMW. Period.

So you're saying that interior quality is the defining factor in a great "all around" car? I asked you this question earlier but didn't get a reply. Please be more specific.

Don't know what world you live in, but if that was the case then every other car company on earth wouldn't bother with engineering IRS for their cars. They could just save the money and go with a live axle.

I said having a solid rear axle "doesn't mean the car can't be as competent as a car with an IRS setup." Prove me wrong.

Lets look for some track times comparing the two and you'll see which is better.

Can't argue with facts.

The M3 is just the most well-rounded car in the segment. Driving dynamics, a touch of luxury, class, prestige, heritage...it has it all. The mustang, on the other hand, has HP.

You're shortchanging the Mustang when you say all it has is HP. It's driving dynamics are equal to that the M3. It even outbrakes the M3.

The Mustang is a poor man's M3, and that's never a good thing.

That's kind of rough but it's your opinion

 

[Merc1]

"....At least in the one's I have driven". So is it possible that other BMW don't drive as well?

It is relative to their respective segments. I don't expect a 5GT to drive like an M3, but you can bet it is a sportier drive than similar vehicles. BMW 101.

"Engine, brakes, steering all working in unison for seamless, precise performance" is opinion, not fact. Have you driven an e65 7 series? I don't think it would fit your description of driving like a BMW. Its controls are pretty sloppy.

I don't remember driving it, the car was too ugly for me to care.

So you're saying that interior quality is the defining factor in a great "all around" car? I asked you this question earlier but didn't get a reply. Please be more specific.

Dude I answer this question 4 posts ago!

I said having a solid rear axle "doesn't mean the car can't be as competent as a car with an IRS setup." Prove me wrong.

Drive the 2 cars or, again while you're searching for reviews on the Mustang's interior quality, read about what they say about a live axle setup. The proof is that nearly every automaker under the sun has abandoned such a setup years and years ago. If they ever used it. Such a design has been and is primarily useful for truck and police car use. You can't seriously think a Mustang is going to have the handling balance of an M3.


Again, if you don't believe anything here the drive the cars yourself.


M

 

[Sunny]

I said having a solid rear axle "doesn't mean the car can't be as competent as a car with an IRS setup." Prove me wrong.

Having a live axle has it's disadvantages, just cause it can produce g numbers on a level smooth pavement suddenly doesn't make it as good as the well sorted out IRS. And no, I am not going to get into a to and fro about it, there is enough resources online to do the research one self.

 

[Porsche Guy]

It is relative to their respective segments. I don't expect a 5GT to drive like an M3, but you can bet it is a sportier drive than similar vehicles. BMW 101.

So I should "bet" on BMW to always have the sportiest car in its respective segment? That's far from fact.

I don't remember driving it, the car was too ugly for me to care.

Too ugly to care? What do looks have to do with driving dynamics. That sounds like a pretty weak excuse. It's still a BMW and like you just said "you can bet it is a sportier drive than similar vehicles".

Dude I answer this question 4 posts ago!

humor me and repost it because I can't find anything where you define the qualities of an all around car.

Drive the 2 cars or, again while you're searching for reviews on the Mustang's interior quality, read about what they say about a live axle setup. The proof is that nearly every automaker under the sun has abandoned such a setup years and years ago. If they ever used it. Such a design has been and is primarily useful for truck and police car use. You can't seriously think a Mustang is going to have the handling balance of an M3.

So is it possible for the new Camaro with IRS could have handling on par with the M3? I only ask because the new Mustang beat out Camaro in a recent C&D test. And I quote:

"[the Mustang] doesn’t pogo, doesn’t shimmy, doesn’t slump to the outside and clop its way through a corner. The ride may be firm, but nothing throws it off the slot-like path you cut through turns. And somehow that live axle deals with pitching and pocked pavement with much of the sure-footed poise of an independent setup."

2010 Ford Mustang GT Comparison Tests - Car and Driver

Merc1, I need clarify that I'm not trying to argue that the Mustang is better than the M3. What I am getting at is that brand image does not assure anything with regards to a manufacturer's next vehicle. As I said in my second post, "A new version of any car, regardless of manufacturer, holds the potential to redefine the brand, for better OR worse" and that's the mindset I want to instill in people in this forum. Everyone should be hesitant of the next M3 or Mustang. Don't assume that because it's a BMW, it's going to be better than the car it replaces or that because it's a Ford, that it's a junky car. When you assume that the M3 is better than the Mustang, having driven neither, I tend to get annoyed because all you're doing is basing your opinion on brand perception and older models, which generally share nothing with newer variants. I can only hope the Mustang is better than the M3 because more competition breeds better products.

 

[NarutoRamen]

Don't get me wrong guys, I love the M3 and probably more so than anyone on this board.

M3 is the better package and better for everyday use. M3 gets my vote.

Really? And exactly how did you come up with that? So, you've driven the E92 M3 daily and you've driven the 2011 Mustang GT daily? M3 has more luxury...Fact. EVERY magazine has said how good the new 2011 Stangs are and how much refined they are that you can drive them for a long time without fatigue.

I have driven the Mustang GT and the E46 M3. I would choose the M3 in a heart beat. This comparison is a joke.

Hey, I used to have a E36 M3 that was rated the best Handling car in America at the time, which included Porsches and Ferraris in that list...So by your logic the E92 M3 is still the best handling car in America. NOT even close. Dude, there is something called progress, look it up. Don't compare old things to new ones and expect everything to stay the same.

The proof is that nearly every automaker under the sun has abandoned such a setup years and years ago. If they ever used it.

Just because no one else is using it doesn't mean jack. The engineering team behind the mustang has mastered that setup for it, especially the new 2011. The live axle setup sucks if you're pushing the car on bumpy roads because it makes the rear jittery, but if you're on smooth roads, it'll be hard pressed to upset the new handling oriented Mustangs. The days of "They go in a straight line, even in corners" are gone. The new Stang can handle, the only problem is, can you handle that kind of car.

The M3 is just the most well-rounded car in the segment. Driving dynamics, a touch of luxury, class, prestige, heritage...it has it all. The mustang, on the other hand, has HP.

1. M3 and Mustang are not in the same segment.
2. Driving Dynamics...your knowledge of this goes nowhere beyond what you've read.
3. Luxury - Of course, it's a premium segment car.
4. Class - Define this for me
5. Prestige - Goes hand in hand with class, but define it.
6. Heritage - Mustang's heritage runs circles around the M3.
7. Mustang doesn't just have HP, it has torque.

As for 5-6, if badge is all you care about, then I truly feel sorry for you.

The Mustang is a poor man's M3, and that's never a good thing.

No, Mustang is a muscle/petrol headed car lover's car. People like you will never understand what the mustang is.

As for the IRS comments...IRS in the stang will make it more expensive and heavier, take a look at the Camaro and how the Mustang owns that car in pretty much every test. Even though I'm not a huge American car fan or go on those forums, from reading a few places, there is a rumor that the next stang might be IRS with the new Ecoboost V6s.

 

[adeel2010]

So I should "bet" on BMW to always have the sportiest car in its respective segment? That's far from fact.

It's far from fact, yes, but judging from previous models, you can bet on BMW coming out on top time after time. Note that in almost every comparison, the BMW M3 has never been beaten (for the most part).

Too ugly to care? What do looks have to do with driving dynamics. That sounds like a pretty weak excuse. It's still a BMW and like you just said "you can bet it is a sportier drive than similar vehicles".

All he meant was that he personally didn't drive it because of how ugly it was. Just the same way I've never thought to drive a Lexus. But the 7-series, in terms of performance, tends to do better than other vehicles in its class regardless



What are you going to argue next, Ford Guy? That the next Mustang might just outperform a Ferrari?

 

[ateekt]

I'll try to sum it up here; 'You buy a Mustang when you try to be someone & you buy M3 when you are someone'... Enough said!

 

[NarutoRamen]

I'll try to sum it up here; 'You buy a Mustang when you try to be someone & you buy M3 when you are someone'... Enough said!

I guess it's to be expected, this is a German Car forum after all.

 

[adeel2010]

Hey, I used to have a E36 M3 that was rated the best Handling car in America at the time, which included Porsches and Ferraris in that list...So by your logic the E92 M3 is still the best handling car in America. NOT even close. Dude, there is something called progress, look it up. Don't compare old things to new ones and expect everything to stay the same.

Alright I see your point. I'll go to the dealership to drive the new Mustang and then try to make an unbiased opinion about it.

No offense, but you have absolutely NO idea what the hell you're talking about and your heavy bias shows. If you're not going to talk about something objectively, then why argue? When you make statements like "puny little" you destroy ANY rep you have.

You know what, I am biased. I love German and I hate American muscle. But performance is not the only thing that matters, that's why I like Mercedes better. It has the better, more luxury oriented package. And that's what I care about most. That is why I would opt for the M3.