German Car Forum

There has been a lot of media regarding what projects have been axed in definitely because of the economic downturn. Here is what the media says about BMW and what is really going on behind the scenes.

BMW

GT lightweight four-door coupé - BMW Concept CS. : CANCELLED
M1 supercar - Production M1 Hommage. : CANCELLED
GT2 (the Z8 replacement) : CANCELLED
GT3 (based on next 3-series) -Next Z4 Coupe : HIATUS
X7, Seven seater luxury SAV with V12. : CANCELLED
X4 coupé Sport Activity Sedan : HIATUS
1-series shooting brake, : ACTIVE
6-series shooting brake : CANCELLED.

Yes we know about the demise of the beautiful CS Concept something I had hoped would have made it to production. Although the V12 was to power the range topper the M Division had plans for a ballistic high performance version of the V12 in which the car which would have been designated BMW 7er Gran Turismo, would have been a serious preformance flagship for BMW.

The M1 Hommage was purely intended for a design exercise only but BMW began to investigate if people would get their cheque books out for a limited production version powered by either the V8 from the M3 or the incoming V8 Turbo found with the X5/X6 M models.
When you seperate demand from the dreamers there was no specific case for a strategy.

BMW have always had one concept in mind for a replacement for a Z8 - The California Spyder Project which made it through the final stages but abandoned for the CS Concept. A Gina style resurrection is on the cards as BMW will show the car in the run up something exciting and highly relevant today , for tomorrow . The California Spyder was a "0" emisssions vehicle as it was purely based on the hydrogen 7.

Whether or not BMW add a Z4 Coupe to the E89 is all dependent on sales response , the previous coupe was introduced to increase sales to the Z4 E85. Now with the two both combined as both a Roadster and Coupe , the need for a coupe model has been diminished. Although a Coupe was created alongside the E89 it offered nothing new designwise except a fixed roof. Sales of the new Z4 have been exceptional so do not expect a return for a Z4 Coupe.

X7 was purely abandoned on the basis that the X5 does the same job , and that a larger premium SAV was the last thing BMW needed to get involved with. The X5 is adequate to be the top line BMW SAV.

As part of the interesting design Concepts BMW intended for a sister vehicle to accompany the X3 to take a new niche and a new approach in defying the conventional approach to an SAV. So the Sport activity Sedan was designed - a commanding driving position with a semi sedan shape was certainly unique and interesting , about the size of a 3er with a very sculpted body and SAV typical road height it would have been interesting to see it in public.

As part of the current move to focus on the compact segment , the segment which will be completely about growth , there are many variations on the new modular structure of the next 1er under discussion for inclusion to broaden the appeal of the 1er for new customers.
And that includes investigating new vehicle trends and specifically indentifing customers needs of what they would would consider in the compact segment.

The GT 6 will be identified by the next generation 6er about 2014.
An additional Shooting Brake has now been terminated in favour of the unique four door coupe configuration.

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Two engines have been developed and are currently being evaluated either in prototypes on on the bench. No decision has been made because the overall decision relies on what is best for the car.
a KERS system will be a feature exclusive to the M5 and there will be a big noise about this because it is a connection to BMW's Efficient Dynamics programme.


The super luxury performance sedan segment will be in the hands of ALPINA.

I really hate "high attitude" posts like this because it sums up the ignorance of the poster, Joint development in engines is purely that - jointly developed - then the respective company works on their respective requirements whist keeping the engines individual for the brand.
A BMW developed engine will always inherit the BMW characteristics the Brand showcases so there is no fear to accept that this is a bad thing for BMW.

With the exception of the X7 (which I'm surprised, the way things are going I'd expect an M X7 version)... I am very disappointed by the cancellations.

Notably sad are the cancellations of the GT, GT2 and M1.

Very little coming from BMW that stirs inspiration.

M5 getting same engine as X5M . Booring!!!. Its just getting worse and worse for BMW. If it continues like this, their sportsmodels have officially lost attraction in my eyes.

The next M5 will surely get the engine from the trucks. No doubt.

Regarding the PSA engines, like those found in the MINI Cooper S and the Peugeot 207 RC, there is not much separating the two. I think this is a good strategy, prices will drop considerably (people would demand a rather good cut in price when "Peugeot" engines are used, I know I would) and maybe this time the quality issues will not be that many.

Nice to hear that the subject of a new CSL is not mentioned, when going by BMW logic, that must be a good sign.

^ LOL, my naive fanboy mind starts spinning again

Doubt, because an experimental V10 twin turbo is in development too The 4.4 V8 from X5 M with two added cylinders.
The engine choice of the new M5 is far from final.

I guess I am alone in wanting to see the TT V8 from the X5/X6 M in a lighter and sportier vehicle. Although with a different transmission. Of course a turbo V10 sounds even more fantastic.

And What is on the radar.

BMW 1er EDi : Active HYBRID
BMW 1er Coupe Supersports
BMW 1er Coupe Supersports CSL
BMW 1er Coupe Supersports Diesel
BMW 3er Coupe Supersports
BMW 3er Coupe Supersports Diesel
BMW Z2 Roadster
BMW Z2 Roadster Hybrid (Project-i)
BMW Z2 Coupe
BMW Z2 Coupe Hybrid (Project-i)
BMW 1er Gran Turismo
BMW 3er Gran Turismo
BMW 6er Gran Turismo
BMW 530d Active HYBRID
BMW 5er Active HYBRID
BMW 5er Gran Turismo Active HYBRID
BMW 5er, 6er ,7er, X5, X6 - Tri-Turbo Diesel.
BMW X1 Active HYBRID
BMW X3 Active HYBRID
BMW X5 Active HYBRID

By 2016 Every BMW model will be available as either Petrol or Diesel or Hybrid variation.

And what is under consideration :

BMW Y series.
BMW Z4 SuperSport
BMW 1er Kombi-Sport (Think 1600/2002 Touring)

The X1 and 5er Gran Turismo event is taking place today , but like the Gran Turismo Concept reveal there is an embargo, until the X1 has been publically revealed.

...and quite a few of them are really interesting!

No Z2 SuperSport?
Will the SuperSport-Name be changed in the future? I mean, just because of the possible short form SS...
Is the 1er SuperSport CSL really planned or also "under consideration"?
Are all the cars not listed under "under consideration" really planned? I would like it, but I can't believe it at the moment :-)
Will the 1er SuperSports Diesel feature an updated version of the 23d-engine? Or something completely new?
When is the Tri-Turbo Diesel going to be introduced? Late 2009 or even later?

Thanks a lot for your answers :-)

1er supersports CSL with a turbo engine i suppose.

No thank you.

8500 rpm ///M high rev 6 cil with 340hp en 1250kg i am in. If not a GT3 will be my next car.

So, I wish you good luck with your new Porsche then.
But are you sure Porsche will continue to offer NA engines also in the future?

Since BMW will definitely NOT make a high-rev NA engine exclusively for you only.

No more high-rev NA engines from BMW. This book is closed.

Possibly not. As the Z2 has a target weight of 1000 kg.

I use the term "SuperSport" to describe the marketing concept.

Yes , there will be a regular performance model and a stripped out lightweight concept , M cars in all but name.


BMW are looking at various ideas to integrate exciting new vehicle concepts for the future, The future does not have to be entirely sensible.
Sensible drivetrains and engines of course but you have to make your product exciting enough so someone can relate to the purpose of the concept.

Will the 1er SuperSports Diesel feature an updated version of the 23d-engine? Or something completely new?
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The "SuperSports" diesels will be unique to the car.

Testing has already commenced in the X5 and 7er the first car to receive the engine will be the X5 sometime in 2010.

A lot of enthusiasts going to shop second hand eni no prob there. Let the mass buy new turbo s then the enthusiasts can buy the nice second hand real drivers cars.

I can manage a long time to buy second hand. After that i proberly stop buying cars and going to spend my money elsewhere.

Is 2010 sure? I heard something about end of 2011/ beginning of 2012.
Regards

Andreas

late 2010 , early-mid 2011.

The opposite treatment compared to that given to the X5M and X6M then? M cars in nothing but the badge.

Is said book closed in the same way the door was closed regarding turbo engines, 4WD and automatic gearboxes in M cars a couple of years ago?

And it's not like this is the end of the world for BMW fans either.
Sure, the BMW high-rev NA experience is unique, admirable and altogether mesmerising in its own right but it is also not the be all and end all.

It's special, sure and we fans will look back on it with fond and knowing appreciation. Nonetheless, the times they are a rolling. And, if I could recognise the benefits of modern turbocharging 10 years back then be assured that the technology has made such significant ground over that period that there simply isn't a business case these days for mass-market performance engines to be naturally aspirated.

Having experienced BMW's already outstanding N54 engine (now being superceded by a more efficient, more reliable, more tolerant N55) I can say that the future is rosy for BMW. These are times of change for BMW regarding propulsion technology - they are taking a few yet very big, risky steps at the moment as opposed to talking lots of small, established steps in the past. This is no longer incremental technology refinement and improvement for them; been there done that. BMW have now taken the plunge and we can expect to see significant developments in the turbocharging arena.

Sure, there are the rumoured problems with turbo heat-soak and engine limp-mode - all expected and resolvable.

AdvEvo, take solace in the fact that I've personally witnessed turbo'd STIs being tracked for over an hour at full tilt without going into limp mode. And that was in 34 Celcius at 1700m. So there's little doubt that BMW and their M division will be able to iron out the trackday gremlins.

As for 7000 rpm vs. 8400 rpm - well really this is just down to different spacing between the increments on a rev counter if you think long and hard about it.

Yes, again, I'll re-iterate that I will lament the passing of an era because of the specialness of the experience but at the same time I see no reason why we won't see a whole new generation of special turbo'd engines from BMW. The key success factor will be in BMW's ability to retain that "engine character" that so beguiled us till now.

If they can manage to build turbocharegd engines wit instant response and a good linear power output (this has yet to be done) and start making sporty cars again, there is no doubt this new book will be an instant bestseller!

So, very un-M like cars such as the X5 and X6 get called M products, and sporty cars like a lightweight 1 series....don't. OK.

I have a question will the next 3er convertibel and 6er convertabel get a softtop or a folding hardtop. I think a Softtop is better for four seatter cabrios.PLEASE give me an Info =D

It s what dunkel says.

If i testdrive a 1 series supersport CSL with proberly a turbo engine. I want the exact the same instant throttle feel when i lift off and go on the throttle midbent like i have in my M high rev atmo engine right now.

If i test drive one and it doesn t do it like i am used to have from ///M i will def. not spend any of my money on that because i am not driving something which does not give me the ultimate fun factor.

I am not some kind drag racer which want tons of nm and horse power. For me a car has to do with balance from the chassis and also fantastic engine response. ZERO LAG. Any lag is dissapointing in fun in driving.

You need to be able to steer the car with the throttle that means a perfect pedal response to the engine otherwise it s not possible to do that. I have never driven a turbo which can do that so nicely as bmw ///M engines non turbo can!!!!!

And you don t want a big nm turbo hike midbent when youre on the limit.

6 Series Convertible -> softtop (alleged the same as the E64)

About the E93-successor I've unfortantely no information.
Grüße,

Andreas

The 6er will receive a three piece folding hardtop similar to the 3er as BMW see the need for the 6er to be seen as a more premium luxury cross-continent sports GT and the hardtop will enable BMW to position it as such against premium key rivals. Porsche and Mercedes-Benz.

When the 3er sieries is closed it is not vrery nice,yet the 6er will lose his atraktive sexy softtop too. Mercedes is premium too but they put in the e-class cabrio a softtop.And Porsche dint have a folding hardtop and is a premium brand too.
very sad...... =(

i'm really excited about the Z2
sounds like an awesome little roadster

but I'm curious, is there a connection between the MINI Speedster and the Z2 or is the MINI Speedster a MINI Cabrio styled like a roadster ?