New Mercedes-Benz 4.7 Twin-Turbo V8 and New 3.5 V6


cawimmer430

Piston Pioneer
I'm already loving the stupid comments on the "not impressive" 306-hp V6. :t-crazy2:


Mercedes Introduces New Fuel-Efficient V6, V8 Engines

Just the Facts:

* Mercedes-Benz says its upcoming 4.7-liter twin-turbo V8 and 3.5-liter V6 will post big gains in fuel economy and power.
* The 4.7-liter twin-turbo V8 is rated at 435 horsepower and 516 pound-feet of torque, with a 22 percent improvement in fuel economy.
* 3.5-liter V6 makes 306 hp and 273 lb-ft of torque with a 24 percent jump in fuel economy.



STUTTGART, Germany — Mercedes-Benz announced today that its upcoming 4.7-liter twin-turbo V8 and 3.5-liter V6 will post gas-electric hybrid-like jumps in fuel economy, 22 percent and 24 percent respectively. The engines will deliver more power, too.

Those numbers are not official EPA numbers, but are Mercedes' own estimates. Further since a chunk of that fuel economy comes from the company newly standard start/stop system, it's not likely to show up as quite as great a fuel economy improvement on U.S.-market window stickers since the EPA's current testing standard doesn't really reflect the improved real-world economy that comes from this type of system.

The new V8 is a direct-injected twin-turbo unit of 4663 cc displacement. According to Mercedes, the engine, which will appear first in the CL-Class coupe and S-Class sedan this fall, will pump out a healthy 435 horsepower and 516 pound-feet of torque, up 12 percent and 32 percent respectively. Thanks to the direct injection system, Mercedes can run the engine at 10.5:1 compression ratio.

The V6 starts with a new architecture. It goes from a 90 degree V angle to 60 degrees. I has all-new intake and exhaust and will make 306 hp and 273 lb-ft of torque. Mercedes claims that an S350 (a model we do not get in the U.S.) will achieve 24 percent better fuel economy than the old S350. Again, a large part of the improvement comes from the standard stop/start system. No word on when or in what model the new V6 will debut.

Another element of both new engines (and one that should be reflected in EPA fuel economy numbers) is the addition of ancillary units that consume less of the engine's power. These include water pump, oil pump and fuel pump. Both motors will also come with intelligent generation management systems

Inside Line says: Mercedes-Benz really should come up with a catchy name for its new turbocharged and direct-injected V8. How about EcoBoost? What? Oh. How about EcoBoostTronic, then? — Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit


Link: Mercedes Introduces New Fuel-Efficient V6, V8 Engines
 
I'm already loving the stupid comments on the "not impressive" 306-hp V6. :t-crazy2:

Not to be one to post stupid comments, as my long lasting affair with the w123, has rendered me completely immune to modern inflated power figures. However, doesn't it strike you as somewhat peculiar, that Mercedes produces a 4,7 which compares very favourably with BMWs V8 Twin turbo 435hp/700nm plays 407hp/600nm, if memory serves... And then chooses to do a 3,5 (Which clearly plays to the BMW x35i monicker), which has exactly the same horsepower as the BMW unit, and less torque.

I realise 306, is an old Mercedes sweetspot, but so is 326. Personally, I had expected 326hp/450nm of sorts.

I realise, the E350 will drive fantastic regardless, and the fuel consumption may be of a nature that the small increase in power is a small price to pay?

Edit: I understand the notion that a very fuel efficient "mid" engine is a very good idea. With 95 Octane currently hovering at ca. 1,5 Euro/litre in Europe.
 
but this v6 is naturally aspirated so by adding turbos I'm sure it can achive BMW figures ;)
 
Not to be one to post stupid comments, as my long lasting affair with the w123, has rendered me completely immune to modern inflated power figures. However, doesn't it strike you as somewhat peculiar, that Mercedes produces a 4,7 which compares very favourably with BMWs V8 Twin turbo 435hp/700nm plays 407hp/600nm, if memory serves... And then chooses to do a 3,5 (Which clearly plays to the BMW x35i monicker), which has exactly the same horsepower as the BMW unit, and less torque.

I realise 306, is an old Mercedes sweetspot, but so is 326. Personally, I had expected 326hp/450nm of sorts.

I realise, the a E350 will drive fantastic regardless, and the fuel consumption may be of a nature that the small increase in power is a small price to pay?

I think the briefing for this new V6 called for improved fuel economy and emissions ratings with adequate performance. I suppose the Mercedes engineers managed to achieve this with the new engine (we will see) and 306-horsepower was the optimized power output that gave the engine a nice blend between performance and fuel economy.

Could MB engineers have extracted more power? Easily. Did they? Nope. :usa7uh:


I really don't understand this thirst for more power anyway. Penis-size be damned, because even a 268-horsepower E350 is a fast car. I drove my family's 2002 E320 today on the Autobahn with 224-horsepower. I really drove her hard today and I didn't once feel that its 224-horsepower output was in any way "underpowered".

All those people who complain about the 268-hp E350 are the ones who'd never buy one in the first place. And second, what are an excess of 300-horsepower going to do to the E350? Make it faster from 0-100 km/h and improve midrange acceleration. Wow, the E350 really needs more power because the current one can't overtake a truck. :D

An American friend once told me that Americans want power in their cars because of "effortless overtaking". I'm not sure if this is true, but I want to say that I have overtaken columns of slow-moving trucks on country roads with relatively slow cars like a BMW 118i automatic - all it takes is perfect timing, planning and looking ahead (to see if there's oncoming traffic). I don't need an E63 AMG for such a maneuver... :D
 
but this v6 is naturally aspirated so by adding turbos I'm sure it can achive BMW figures ;)

It will destroy BMW's figures, it already has the advantage of being 3.5L so unless Mercedes reduces the displacement I suspect it will have a marginal hp advantage but a huge torque advantage just like the new V8. However, I agree with Wimmer the new NA V6 is more than enough it sounds like a very good engine as it is.

Edit: Just noticed the torque equals the ol'E55 OHH DEEAAARRR! There will be plenty of owners shredding some tires like there's no tomorrow.
 
Here I am guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG......I love you Chris.......!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!

I'm at work i just took a deep breath when i saw the thread title. I'm sitting here smiling and feeling really giddy right now, its as if i won the lottery......

Ok now i need to read more......be back when i calm down.......


M
 
I think the briefing for this new V6 called for improved fuel economy and emissions ratings with adequate performance. I suppose the Mercedes engineers managed to achieve this with the new engine (we will see) and 306-horsepower was the optimized power output that gave the engine a nice blend between performance and fuel economy.

Could MB engineers have extracted more power? Easily. Did they? Nope. :usa7uh:


I really don't understand this thirst for more power anyway. Penis-size be damned, because even a 268-horsepower E350 is a fast car. I drove my family's 2002 E320 today on the Autobahn with 224-horsepower. I really drove her hard today and I didn't once feel that its 224-horsepower output was in any way "underpowered".

All those people who complain about the 268-hp E350 are the ones who'd never buy one in the first place. And second, what are an excess of 300-horsepower going to do to the E350? Make it faster from 0-100 km/h and improve midrange acceleration. Wow, the E350 really needs more power because the current one can't overtake a truck. :D

An American friend once told me that Americans want power in their cars because of "effortless overtaking". I'm not sure if this is true, but I want to say that I have overtaken columns of slow-moving trucks on country roads with relatively slow cars like a BMW 118i automatic - all it takes is perfect timing, planning and looking ahead (to see if there's oncoming traffic). I don't need an E63 AMG for such a maneuver... :D

There's no doubt the 306 is a marketing driven figure, I mean the engineers don't set out to do an engine, and then by pure accident hit exactly the same figure as BMW. Hence, I agree completely Mercedes could hit any figure they might want.

I think you're correct fuel economy has been a big priority in this design, and in the current market place it probably makes perfect sense. Let's be realistic of all the potential clients for such a car a max of 5% will probably care about a torque deficit compared to a BMW, while 95% will care about fuel economy. Remember, most people who buy these cars are not enthusiasts, just consumers.

Concerning, the people who do care about the power... There's always the V8 with more power than the corresponding BMW for them. ;)
 
By the way, 100 NM of torque more than the 750i, that´s a serious advantage over the previous V8.
 
So I guess the SL, E and other V8 cars will have to wait until their respective replacements or facelifts for the V8. I hope the C-Class and E-Class get the new V6 this fall, that would be nice.


M
 
^I guess it depends on when the facelift C-class is presented. I have a feeling the CLS will get it after the S and CL. E-class should have it for a 2011 model, unless they plan on waiting another 2 years for the facelift.
 
All those people who complain about the 268-hp E350 are the ones who'd never buy one in the first place. And second, what are an excess of 300-horsepower going to do to the E350? Make it faster from 0-100 km/h and improve midrange acceleration. Wow, the E350 really needs more power because the current one can't overtake a truck. :D


That simply isn't true Chris. I'd buy one. More than a few W211 E-Class owners over on MBWorld didn't feel that the new W212 E350 was worth trading their W211 E350 for, mainly because of no engine upgrades. It may not matter in Europe but it does here.


An American friend once told me that Americans want power in their cars because of "effortless overtaking". I'm not sure if this is true, but I want to say that I have overtaken columns of slow-moving trucks on country roads with relatively slow cars like a BMW 118i automatic - all it takes is perfect timing, planning and looking ahead (to see if there's oncoming traffic). I don't need an E63 AMG for such a maneuver... :D


This is true, but also luxury cars are slaves to marketing. I guess you'd have to live here to understand this. On paper, which is how a lot of luxury car buyers shop, a 268hp C350 or E350 just looks hopeless in a class of which every single competitor has 300hp or more. Its just that simple, whether its warranted or not.

That said, Mercedes being Mercedes usually at the front of most things shouldn't be behind in engines just by sheer being. The 3L and 3.5L V6s are simply not as efficient as they should be considering their lack of power.

I realize you'd like Mercedes to still be building the W123, and I the W124, but Mercedes has to move with the times. Even with the 268hp V6 W212 E350s are everywhere, imagine how many sales they'll pick up be now being class competitive. Maybe now people will start buying the C350 Sport more too. Our U.S. market C300 is in desperate need of a engine update also, its not so much that it is underpowered, but its too thirsty for just 228hp and these are not EPA figures I'm going by, but real world obeservations.


M
 
Here I am guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG......I love you Chris.......!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!

I'm at work i just took a deep breath when i saw the thread title. I'm sitting here smiling and feeling really giddy right now, its as if i won the lottery......

Ok now i need to read more......be back when i calm down.......


M

Haha..here u are!:D

I just loove the torque of the new V8,that is just like AMG power!
 
The V8 is impressive! Falls nicely in between the 407 hp standard version and 450 hp Performance version of the BMW 4.4 V8

The V6 is nice, but turbos would have been better and more future proof. BMW has several power figures for the I6 TT (306, 326 and 340 hp), and that's not really possible on the Mercedes V6.

Nice reaction Merc :D :usa7uh:
 
If I'm not mistaken Merc do have a 3L v6 that they could developed (sticking on turbos) like BMW did. And it's not about copying but rather progression. Could some one do a comparative power out put between the two engines (V8 MERC and BMW).:t-cheers:
 
"But the major improvements are to fuel economy and CO2 output. In the bulky S350, the new V6 is claimed to be capable of 37.1mpg - a 24 per cent improvement - and 177g/km."

"In the CL500 - the launch model this autumn - fuel economy improves by 22 per cent to 29.7mpg, with CO2 dropping by an equally impressive percentage to 224g/km"

From autocar, the v6 is mighty impressive, not far off the old 3,0 CDI.
 

Mercedes-Benz

Mercedes-Benz Group AG is headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany. Established in 1926, Mercedes-Benz Group produces consumer luxury vehicles and light commercial vehicles badged as Mercedes-Benz, Mercedes-AMG, and Mercedes-Maybach. Its origin lies in Daimler-Motoren-Gesellschaft's 1901 Mercedes and Carl Benz's 1886 Benz Patent-Motorwagen, which is widely regarded as the first internal combustion engine in a self-propelled automobile. The slogan for the brand is "the best or nothing".
Official website: Mercedes-Benz (Global), Mercedes-Benz (USA)

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