BMW and SGL Team Up for Washington-Based Carbon Fiber Plant

[PanterroR]

BMW (holding a 49% stake) and SGL (holding 51%) have joined forces to create SGL Automotive Carbon Fiber LLC, which will be located in Moses Lake, Washington. The joint venture will build a $100 million "state-of-the-art carbon fiber manufacturing plant" and help create 80 local jobs.

According to SGL ACF LLC, the end result will be carbon fiber reinforced plastics (CFRP) "used for BMW Group's upcoming Megacity Vehicle." They're referring to what will be the end result of BMW's Project i, a mode of transport "designed for fully electric, zero-emission driving."

Why build in Moses Lake? Mainly, energy costs in Washington state are highly competitive and there's access to renewable hydropower [re: it's green as grass]. Other factors included "favorable infrastructure conditions, existing utilities, a skilled labor force and ease of working with the local government."

Robert Koehler, SGL Group's CEO, talked about the project: "It will be the world's most cost efficient carbon fiber plant using state-of-the-art technologies. This significant investment further underlines our commitment to the U.S., where we already operate carbon fiber and composite materials plants...We will ensure that carbon fibers play a revolutionary role in lightweight automotive construction."

Friedrich Eichiner of BMW added, "With using CFRP components in our Megacity Vehicle, we take sustainable mobility a step further. By combining the know-how of SGL Group and our expertise in manufacturing CFRP components, we will be able to produce carbon fiber enhanced components in large volumes at competitive costs for the first time. This is particularly relevant for electric-powered vehicles such as the Megacity Vehicle."

With recent BMW trademarks including everything from an i1 and i2 to E8s and E9s, there's no time like the present to start speculating on what the first majority-CFRP BMW product will be. Being old-school, here's hoping the Isetta makes a comeback.


Source: BMW and SGL Team Up for Washington-Based Carbon Fiber Plant - Carscoop

 

[EnI]

BMW Group and SGL Group to triple production capacities at Moses Lake carbon fiber plant

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/glob...lId=6&id=T0179312EN&left_menu_item=node__4088



Carbon era is coming to core BMW brand as well ...

 

[Sunny]

I was just comparing the electric B class to the i3. The electric B class apparently weighs a humongous 3900 lbs, 1300 lbs more than i3. Despite similar range and worse performance. The faster BMW can bring CF to it's main stream products the more advantage it will have. And I am not talking just few CF panels, but actual chassis and other load bearing structures.

 

[SCOTT27]

I was just comparing the electric B class to the i3. The electric B class apparently weighs a humongous 3900 lbs, 1300 lbs more than i3. Despite similar range and worse performance. The faster BMW can bring CF to it's main stream products the more advantage it will have. And I am not talking just few CF panels, but actual chassis and other load bearing structures.

Yes this is coming soon than you think. The 7er is the lead vehicle for Carbon application but it starts the revolution filtering to the all-new 5er and so on. The joint Toyota-BMW collaboration pools both companies resources together to build the architecture for the next generation 6er and Z models.

It's what has made potential and upcoming models a reality such as the X7 , Potential 9er inspired by the Vision Future Luxury Concept and the BMW M sports car project. BMW has changed the narrative on what is considered to be impossible.
For what the i8 is and if we ignore the " its not a real sports car context" its about the past , present and future. In its genes lie the future of BMW in the present it answers today's question of accepting sustainability , and its past embodies the spirit of the BMW M1 in a more progressive and innovative way.

The real innovation is spreading the material in this case Carbon Fibre in a very cost effective direction. It's why some models will not only drop weight significantly. But compared to rivals will be able to offer more for less than or around the same cost.
BMW will announce later this year the first of many in the run up to the introduction of the all new 7er ,the first weight figures.

The reaction is going to be interesting to watch.

 

[Wolfgang]

True, the B-Class electric drive weighs 3924 lbs and may not be suitable for folks interested in cone twirling.

some weights (estimated)
B-Class electric drive ........... 3924 lbs
i3 ..................................... 2634 lbs
Model S ............................. 4647 lbs
smart electric drive coupe ..... 1941 lbs
smart electric drive cabriolet .. 2007 lbs
Leaf S ............................... 3242 lbs

 

[Sunny]

True, the B-Class electric drive weighs 3924 lbs and may not be suitable for folks interested in cone twirling.

some weights (estimated)
B-Class electric drive ........... 3924 lbs
i3 ..................................... 2634 lbs
Model S ............................. 4647 lbs
smart electric drive coupe ..... 1941 lbs
smart electric drive cabriolet .. 2007 lbs
Leaf S ............................... 3242 lbs

Wolf, it is not just "cone twirling". The weight also has a huge impact on efficiency. i3 has the highest MPG rating of all the cars sold in US at 138mpg city/111 highway now. Others for comparison -

Do you know the EPA rating for the electric B class or if it has one yet? Since the RAV4 EV has the same Tesla driveline as B class and doesn't weigh much more (4030lbs), it is probably a good indication.

 

[Wolfgang]

^ Wasn't released yet as far as I know. Might be similar to the RAV4 EV, and won't come close to the I3's efficiency.

2014 Mercedes-Benz B-Class Electric

• Available mid-July in California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont
• 50 state availability announced in 2015
• Range: 80-85 miles (est)
• Power: 177 Horsepower/251 lb/ft torque
• Top Speed: 100 mph (est)
• Acceleration: 0-60 in 7.9 sec
• Charge times: 0-100% in as little as 3.5 hours with 240V charger
• Motor: Tesla Drive system with Lithium Ion Battery
• 28kWh lithium-ion battery, 2 hour charging time for 60 miles range with 240V Charger

http://www.benzblogger.com/2014/04/2014-mercedes-benz-b-class-electric-msrp.html

 

[Wolfgang]

Just saw a review from last week's press day in Sunnyvale, by none other than Dan Neil!


Some points. Explains what a compliance car is. Great.

Typically with advanced technology/compliance car projects—oh, the Honda Fit EV, for example—the manufacturer will convert an existing vehicle into an EV or plug-in EV, as cost effectively as possible. Then it will make, lease and sell as many units as it takes, at whatever price, to hit the company's compliance targets. Then, God willing, it will shut up about it, because each unit sold loses money. When these cars come up in conversation, auto executives start looking at their shoes.


Notes the weight difference to the i3, and it's only 1064 lbs, rather than the 1300 lbs stated above. Recently he reviewed the i3/i8, so he presumably knows the correct weight for the USA version.

Speaking of weight: The steel-bodied B-ED competes directly with BMW's new and radical, carbon-fiber and plastic-bodied BMW i3. Both are next-generation electric family cars priced in the low $40,000s, and both have roughly the same range, power and comparable performance. And yet the two cars are wildly different, reflecting the industrial strategies behind them. The BMW's advanced-materials approach to weight saving netted them a car weighing a mere 2,860 pounds, fully 1,064 pounds lighter than the B-ED.


Comments about the drive are a bit better than expected.

Throughout my 50-mile test drive in the Bay area, the B-ED had great spirit under the spur. And due to its low center of gravity—the dense battery pack buried in the floor—the B-ED rides well and corners with a lot more confidence than its gas-powered twin, even though the electric weighs 700 pounds more.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304431104579549721309416240

 

[Sunny]

Notes the weight difference to the i3, and it's only 1064 lbs, rather than the 1300 lbs stated above. Recently he reviewed the i3/i8, so he presumably knows the correct weight for the USA version.

I think he is probably talking about the difference to i3 Rex, which weighs almost 2900 lbs (according to bmwusa.com). The normal i3 only weighs 2634 lbs according to bmwusa.com - http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Cont...3/Features_and_Specs/BMWi3Specifications.aspx

 

[Wolfgang]

True, that may be. BMW USA only lists the DIN/EU weights: Weight, unladen, according to DIN/EU 2634/2799 pounds.

The 2860 pounds comes from here.

The first i product was the i3, introduced last fall. It is a quick, big-on-the-inside urban EV with a range of about 81 miles, costing about $41,350, before federal and local credits. The i3 brought to market the program's signature LifeDrive technology: All the car's moving parts, the machinery, is packed into a lightweight aluminum Drive chassis, like a roller-skate truck. The body of the car, the passenger safety cell, is spun out of a light, strong carbon-fiber reinforced plastic (CFRP). And the two modules, Life and Drive, are essentially glued together, meshing on the assembly line like two sides of a zipper. The resulting car is 2,860 pounds.

While there are historical precedents, cars have never been made like this before. For a fairly apples-to-apples comparison, the steel-bodied Mercedes-Benz B-class Electric Drive, which had its first media drive in Silicon Valley this week, weighs 3,858 pounds. The i3 is 998 pounds lighter, fully 25% less.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304677904579535612915387656

The performance disparity likely comes down mostly to weight. Because the i3 is made largely of carbon fiber and the B-Class of heavy metal, the BMW weighs just 2,635 pounds while the B-Class Electric Drive is far heftier at 3,924 pounds, as confirmed in correspondence with MBUSA spokesman Christian Bokich. (That's also 660 pounds heavier than a diesel B-Class, but that model is not offered Stateside anyway.) The Mercedes is also larger, though, stretching 171.6 inches on a 106.3-inch wheelbase compared to the BMW's 157-inch length and 101-inch wheelbase. (Width and height are roughly comparable.) Whether that larger form is worth the penalty on the road is a matter each customer will have to decide for him or herself. Deliveries commence this summer.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/30/2014-mercedes-b-class-electric-drive-pricing-official/

 

[mini_cooper4]

I can't wait for CFRP to hit the core models.
Who would buy anything else but a 20-30% lighter, a lot faster, way more fuel efficient car which costs the same if not less and uses more CF than Lambo and Ferrari?
I myself don't like BMW but will be left with no other choice. The competition is SOOOO FAR behind unfortunately

 

[klier]

I agree it is going to be glorious. But the competition is not standing still and the new E class is supposed to be a lot lighter as well. We'll see how much the difference will be. It's going to be really interesting and all my money is on the BMWs.

 

[EnI]

CFRP parts ... Not only the total weight of the vehicle is reduced but more importantly such parts do a) lower the center of gravity, and b) make it easier to achieve perfect 50:50 weight distribution on the axles etc. So, there are additional advantages when it comes to usage of parts made of CFRP.

Btw, no other manufacturer is not even close to BMW in the case of mass-volume production & usage of CFRP parts. And that will become even more evident when CFRP parts will start to be used extensively on the upcoming G-labeled models. BMW are at least 1 generation ahead ... Sure others will use CFRP too - but mostly on high-end sports cars but not on core models. Not in the next 5-7 years, and even then not in such volumes as BMW will.

Btw, rumor has it the next RR Phantom family will utilize BMWi-like "LifeDrive" architecture: mostly alu chassis + all CFRP body frame.

 

[SCOTT27]

CFRP parts ... Not only the total weight of the vehicle is reduced but more importantly such parts do a) lower the center of gravity, and b) make it easier to achieve perfect 50:50 weight distribution on the axles etc. So, there are additional advantages when it comes to usage of parts made of CFRP.

Btw, no other manufacturer is not even close to BMW in the case of mass-volume production & usage of CFRP parts. And that will become even more evident when CFRP parts will start to be used extensively on the upcoming G-labeled models. BMW are at least 1 generation ahead ... Sure others will use CFRP too - but mostly on high-end sports cars but not on core models. Not in the next 5-7 years, and even then not in such volumes as BMW will.

Btw, rumor has it the next RR Phantom family will utilize BMWi-like "LifeDrive" architecture: mostly alu chassis + all CFRP body frame.

Yes the Phantom will be the peak of lightweight weight engineering for the next generation. This is expected as it will also usher in the most expensive RR yet - A 2 seater intimate Roadster. BMWs advancement in Carbon application will also benefit G17 BMW X7 and its Rolls-Royce twin.

 

[MINISPDR]

Yes the Phantom will be the peak of lightweight weight engineering for the next generation. This is expected as it will also usher in the most expensive RR yet - A 2 seater intimate Roadster. BMWs advancement in Carbon application will also benefit G17 BMW X7 and its Rolls-Royce twin.

Isn't X7 the G07?

 

[klier]

^ I am not sure but the G11 will come first. But then again the F07 came after the F10

 

[tomazino]

But then again the F07 came after the F10

No, no)
F10 came after F07.

 

[mini_cooper4]

^ I am not sure but the G11 will come first. But then again the F07 came after the F10

F07 was first

 

[klier]

Hmm, weird I thought otherwise...

So what will it be @tomazino? G07?

 

[mini_cooper4]

Hmm, weird I thought otherwise...

It's OK... even great that you don't remember.
I myself forgot that it even exist(needed therapy)