BMW Marketing

I mentioned this is another thread...but I'd like to see new models take a slightly different path and I know I'm not alone.

Flagships: I don't want a 5+ meter car. It's too big and that's why I'm not buying it. You could price it the same as a 3 series and I still won't get it....so it's not all about price. I want a flagship to be the 5er. I want every available feature available on the 5er, including more luxurious leathers and interior trim. P.S. I would love lacquered Piano Black trim (wood, not plastic) and leather dashboards available. I would even be more interested in a 3er if it had more features as options. Small cars are easier to drive and park, but I would like them more luxurious and technological. I know many people who bought a 3 series not because it was cheaper but because it was smaller. They were disappointed that they couldn't get the gadgets on it though.

M: I live in snow and will not sacrifice all wheel drive regardless of the prowess on the track. Put xDrive on your M models. Porsche, Audi and Lamborghini all manage to have AWD on their high-end sports cars. I would love an M5 if it had xDrive. Snow tires on RWD is simply not good enough and I place safety above 0-60 times.

xDrive: I want it on all models. I would be interested in a 6er or a convertible if they had xDrive. I realize many people prefer the driving dynamics of RWD, however there are also a lot of people who live in snow and would like to have a lot more traction.

increasing sizes: For the love of all that is good....stop making every car bigger. I don't want 2 more inches on my car with every new design. I want to be able to get around on busy city streets, have the option of a U-turn and be able to park it without doing a 94 point turn.

fuel mileage: I can afford all the gas any big V12 can suck, however I would prefer not to. I do have an environmental concern and don't want to spend money on fuel just for the sake of it. However if I want all of the available features a series has, I usually have to get the biggest engine to get them. Please make all of the luxury features available on the more fuel economic models. If you do hybrids...make them the most luxurious models. Don't make me suck fuel in order to get the extra features

SUVs: We get them because we want to lug more stuff around. Everyone I know with an SUV got it for the cargo room. I can throw all sorts of gear in an SUV. What I would like, is to be able to get all the luxury features of a 7er in one. The luxo barge 7er is too big as a car and doesn't have the cargo room of the X5...but I still want all of its features and I'll pay for them. Make them an option -- oh and give me the Individual options on it too...(again I really like leather and piano black wood trim)

Run Flat Tires: I'm not a fan. They create a much harsher ride and don't offer me any convenience. If I blow a tire on Christmas eve, I'm screwed. I can't just park it in my garage because the rft won't be able to drive after sitting overnight or longer and I can't drive it anywhere to get fixed because everything is closed. Even late at night I am out of options for getting it repaired because they are all closed, and if I am more than 50 miles from home, I can't get there either. I just don't see their advantage. At least put in a spare...that will comfort me greatly.

Those are my thoughts for today.

RBP said:

I mentioned this is another thread...but I'd like to see new models take a slightly different path and I know I'm not alone.

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No, you are not alone ... but you & your pals are still a minority.

Btw, reading all your wishes I got a feeling your dream car could be Audi or Lexus.

RBP said:

I mentioned this is another thread...but I'd like to see new models take a slightly different path and I know I'm not alone.


Run Flat Tires: I'm not a fan. They create a much harsher ride and don't offer me any convenience. If I blow a tire on Christmas eve, I'm screwed. I can't just park it in my garage because the rft won't be able to drive after sitting overnight or longer and I can't drive it anywhere to get fixed because everything is closed. Even late at night I am out of options for getting it repaired because they are all closed, and if I am more than 50 miles from home, I can't get there either. I just don't see their advantage. At least put in a spare...that will comfort me greatly.

Those are my thoughts for today.

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You know you can still go with RFT and have a spare at the same time.
That is what I did with my 3er and it is what I am going to do with my new X5.

Let me just correct you in your attitude to run flat tyres.
First of all they are standard on nearly every BMW as this takes away weight from having a spare tyre in the rear of the car.
Secondly The new generation of run flats we are using are vastly improved from the initial introduction.
And lastly you say you puncture a wheel with run-flats and you are screwed.
I presume you are from America ?
Well the run-flat system is adapted to run for an extra 90 miles as long as the car does not travel above 50 mph. Giving you plenty of time to get home and arrange a replacement . I have plenty of experience with Run-flats and never have I been stranded when a puncture happens.

There will only be one four wheel drive M-car and that is a vehicle that fits within the M-philosophy. Standard M-cars will never be four wheel drive our customers prefer RWD.

Runflats are too heavy and is more of a disadvantage for the road dynamics.
I have never had a flat in 13 years and I could be without runflats. I will change to normal tires when mines are worn out.

No my dream car is not a Lexus (re-badged Toyota) or an Audi (re-badged VW). My dream car would be a much better and coupish looking 5 series with all the tech gadgets from an S-Class, 7 Series and LS460 rolled in to one. I would like it to be as fast as an M5 with xDrive, the fuel mileage of a Mini and be around 4830 mm long.

As for run-flats....even if they get you 90 miles...you have to have somewhere to go. If you can't get your tire repaired or replaced (as would be the case when repair shops are closed)...where are you going to go. Am I wrong in that you can't have your car sit in a garage overnight with a punctured run-flat and still be able to drive to a repair shop two days later?

Oh...and I have my own spare tire that adds extra weight anyway -- I should probably drive to the gym more often.

As for all of your M customers preferring RWD...well you are just wrong. I know several people that would have gone M if the car had xDrive. Instead they sacrificed the engine for the traction -- a trade off they would rather not make. Maybe those people aren't in the majority...but they are out there.

Just my 2 Canadian cents.

As for an X drive on M car, I am sure they would do it if the market is big enough to off set the development and manufacturing cost. And it might be getting there, but was definitely not the case in the past. See how few RS cars are sold compared to M. But yeah, the market is definitely getting bigger - so probably the next generation of M cars or starting with the rumored X6 M. Also the new generation of vectored AWD tech should allow the AWD to be incorporated with out effecting the car's dynamics - which was not the case in the past.

EnI said:

Btw, reading all your wishes I got a feeling your dream car could be Audi or Lexus.

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SCOTT27 said:

There will only be one four wheel drive M-car and that is a vehicle that fits within the M-philosophy. Standard M-cars will never be four wheel drive our customers prefer RWD.

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Really? Well I'm a customer and I prefer AWD. I'm sure that if Porsche (911 Turbo) and Nissan (GT-R) can manage to get a highly dynamic and light AWD system in their cars, then so could BMW. BMW could offer it in lower priced vehicles and hence get the upper hand.

SCOTT27 said:

Let me just correct you in your attitude to run flat tyres.
First of all they are standard on nearly every BMW as this takes away weight from having a spare tyre in the rear of the car.
Secondly The new generation of run flats we are using are vastly improved from the initial introduction.
And lastly you say you puncture a wheel with run-flats and you are screwed.
I presume you are from America ?
Well the run-flat system is adapted to run for an extra 90 miles as long as the car does not travel above 50 mph. Giving you plenty of time to get home and arrange a replacement . I have plenty of experience with Run-flats and never have I been stranded when a puncture happens.

There will only be one four wheel drive M-car and that is a vehicle that fits within the M-philosophy. Standard M-cars will never be four wheel drive our customers prefer RWD.

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A few things you might want to take back to your engineering department.
I consider myself an early adopter, and do see the potential in RFT, however the idea that a car with RFT should not have a spare tyre, thus eliminating the space for one is beyond ludicrous.

1. If the idea is to save weight, then I think it is very lame. If you can tell your engineers to create space in the boot to accommodate a spare, I am sure you will be a hero to lots of people(E9X owners). I would rather benefit from the advantage of having manageable handling potential to drive the car to save area and change the tyre and possibly save the tyre as well with the extra weight, than to rely solely of an expensive risk. The risk here been the reliance on deflated/punctured to carry me to my destination. It's not like the tyres and wheels are standard sizes that can be found in any shop or there are such shops within the range for which the tyre/rim are good for. Most cases, you have to order them.

2. Telling me that I don't need to carry a spare because I have a RFT, and should only concern myself with one only when faced with an emergency sounds like a reactive measure to me. I would rather be proactive and have a spare with me even though I have a RFT.

3. If you can please ask your engineers to figure out how they can have both the third row seat and a spare tyre in the X5. It is unbelievable that I have to give up the spare tyre because I have the third row with the lame excuse of having a RFT.

I know several ppl who have actually put non RFT's once their tyres wore out because they werent happy with the comfort and noise. They actually put normal tyres on and shoved a spare in the boot.

BMW Power said:

I know several ppl who have actually put non RFT's once their tyres wore out because they werent happy with the comfort and noise. They actually put normal tyres on and shoved a spare in the boot.

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I am happen to be one of those, and the sad thing is that you lose boot space in doing so.

You haven't research runflat tyres very well at all... They are designed to be driven on when you get a puncture so if you blow a tire on christmas eve you can still drive until you can get it replaced... for like 500km i think at a max of 80kmh

Great thread.

No one I know with a BMW and runflats likes them. They're noise and seem to ride hard even on smooth pavement. I'd never have them on anything. I've had 1 flat in the last 5 years so to me they aren't worth the trouble.

M

>
^ Run flats, even the Michelin PAX solution witch sacrifices driving dynamics the least, still have a long way to go. Then there's the infrastructure/service for repairs.

A Formula 1 run-flats tire war (in slicks form) would have done miracles for the progress/development of this technology; new compounds, new manufacturing techniques, weight reduction, roll reduction, degradation reduction and so forth. But then again, Mosley's a idiot, and without stiff cut-throat competition and incetives, the manufacturers just won't bother (that) much.


Now onto BMW, I agree about the oversizing and runflats, but the rest is kinda B*.
The M cars are not, nor should be prestige cars. There's plenty of those around. They should remain driver's cars, and shave those luxury items and the weight they add, and use more weightsaving alloys and composites.
If BMW wan't AWD and turbos they should created a new sub-brand, and not use the M moniker.

Merc1 said:

Great thread.

No one I know with a BMW and runflats likes them. They're noise and seem to ride hard even on smooth pavement. I'd never have them on anything. I've had 1 flat in the last 5 years so to me they aren't worth the trouble.

M

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I have them on my car and i do not mind them. Although i admit they're noisy i have no bad experience with them. But, but... My new car will have spare tire and i won't take them again.

It's better for sure with normal tires.

I agree that runflats should be provided as an option for those who want the extra safety/security. Putting them as standard particularly on M-sport equipped cars in markets with bumpy road conditions is a mistake IMO. The space-saver spare, with the tools to use it, is the best solution. For me.

That being said, I can definitely understand how most consumers would feel more comfortable driving to a safe spot rather than, say, having to stop at the side of the road on a cold, rainy night on a shoulder barely wide enough for a motorcycle to stop safely, with cars and big rigs whizzing by at 50-80 mph. Now imagine that scenario, but with your family in the car. Or standing outside.
This is a benefit that consumers realize everyday, and has even been documented in various roadtests. For example:
Dueling Coupes: 2008 BMW 335i vs 2008 Infiniti G37S - New Car, Truck, and SUV Road Tests and Reviews - Flat Tire - Automobile Magazine
Also, the reason why you don't see the GT3 on Evo's COTY 2006 issue, even though it was a finalist, is because it got a flat tire. In the issue's preface, the editor gave insight into the ridiculous process of getting it fixed and summed up:
"For us, it meant the GT3 couldn't make the cover shoot; for an owner on holiday, it would wreck the experience."
Granted, the GT3 has bespoke tires in uncommon sizes. However, the Z4 Coupe in the same test clipped a large rock that wrecked the wheel and blew out the tire, yet was able to continue safely onto the next destination.

Another safety benefit to runflats is that they reduce the risk of losing control of the car in the event of a blowout. These may be extreme examples, but they illustrate the point:
"I witnessed a Z06 driver cross a stinger at near 150mph, puncturing all four wheels, but managing to keep the car tidily under control."
Corvette Z06 (2006-) | Features | 4car | channel4.com

BMW M5 Touring Crashes From Flat Tire At 180 Km/h - 112 Mph

Even when people are expecting a blown tire, they still lose control with conventional tires:
Flat but not out - Telegraph

Power said:

You haven't research runflat tyres very well at all... They are designed to be driven on when you get a puncture so if you blow a tire on christmas eve you can still drive until you can get it replaced... for like 500km i think at a max of 80kmh

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I am afraid that is a bit misleading, and there is a difference between having a puncture and a blown tyre. A puncture case results in a gradual loss in tyre pressure whereas the blown case is almost instantaneous loss and it is catastrophic to life of the tyre.
RFT have a solid member, in the case of the ones used by BMW a solid side-wall that is designed to support part of the load of the car, as you lose tyre pressure more of the load is transferred to the side-wall. At a certain pressure (varies with the weight if the vehicle) 100% of the load is supported by the side-wall. When this happens, you can be rest assured to condemn that tyre.

I can't think of any RFT that offers you a 500 km range, the 3 series gives you about 150-200 km range while the X5 gives you about 100 km range(the weight of the vehicle influences the range). The 1 series may give you something better than the 3 series but 500km in my limited opinion is a stretch with existing technology in the market.

• So yes, you can drive on it and maintain decent maneuverability if the scenario is a puncture/slow leak. If you have a spare, you can pull over to a point of safety and change the tyre, and possibly have it fixed- however if you do not have a spare and drive on it till 100% of the load is now borne by the tyre, then I am afraid you have to get a new one. It is worth noting that they are quite expensive.

• No you can't drive on it if it is blown scenario. So if you are driving home on Christmas eve and you blow a RFT tyre, and you don't have a spare- dur fromage.

There's really nothing as refreshing as a good BMW-bashing thread.

BTW, I never liked those RFTs.

I replaced the runflats on my 530i because they were way to harsh for the 19inch M wheels and now the car rides superbly and is very comfortable on my daily commute.... I also have a space saver spare just incase