US sales: October 2006: BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, VW

[Bruce]

Guys, let's calm it down a little bit There's no need to argue like this, different reports come from different places, not any of them are necessairily false.

Edit: and lets keep away from the BMW vs Mercedes stuff, we don't need that

 

[Beemer B773ER]

I think all Rik was initially trying to point-out was that due to the lack-lustre sales of the current CL and SL in the US, Mercedes decided to group the V12 engine sales (which are only found in the S, CL and SL) to give off the impression that those vehicles as a group recorded strong growth, when in fact it was only the S-class which continues to shine.

As with any marketing-derived press release, you gotta make all your products look good.. or atleast try to put a positive spin on things. Like I gave the BMW example of their SAV's. The X5 sales were down (same as the CL and SL are down) but the X3 sales were up (just like the S-class sales are now).. so BMW decided to group these vehicles as their 'SAVs' (same as MB grouping together the S, CL and SL under the V12 engine tag - yes i know not all S, CL and SL models are V12)... but it's the same principle. One or two of your models is not selling well but a similar model is.. so it's 'smarter' to group those vehicles together into a group so as to portray a common positive message for vehicles rather than just one vehicle.

Also, by grouping the CL and SL with the S-class, it reflects positively on the CL and SL because everybody is aware of the brilliant sales performace of the S since it's introduction into the US market. Kinda like a 'halo effect' of being associated with the new S.

Well.. like I said, that's what I think Rik was trying to say initially. What message or point he's been trying to convey in his last few posts I am unsure of.

 

[Merc1]

True, and BMW is no different from Mercedes as you point out. Thing is MB has been grouping the SL/CL/S for years, it didn't just start with this month's press release.

M

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Yes that is true, they have been grouping them together, but unlike before, the new S is selling real well while the other two are performing pretty poorly.

So unlike the past when each model was mentioned for their sales contribution to the S-CL-SL group, at the present moment it's literally just the new S which is keeping the trio looking good sales-wise.

Is it misleading? Yeh, a little.. but since when has Marketing been a completely honest and ethically driven discipline. So in saying that, there's really nothing wrong with what MB did (all car companies do it)... but to us car enthusiasts, we can very easily see through this common marketing ploy.

So in simple, it's not the V12's that are doing really well for MB.. it's simply the V12 variant of the new S.

 

[Merc1]

All much ado about nothing, they all do it.....BMW included.

And this isn't the first time that one model has held up the group either.

Again, much ado about nothing.

The new S held up the whole line (2000) until the CL and new SL came along later, end of the 2000 for the CL and spring of 2002 for the SL.

Again, much ado about nothing and certainly not a new tactic.

M

 

[RikfromBelgium]

you do know how to spin my words.
I mentionned the SAV-group with BMW, did not deny that. But I also said that it wasn't the same as grouping the cars with just the same engine. THAT is silly. That is grasping to give positive figures. It's not even grouping those 3 models, just the ones with the V12. That is totally different, since only one can show positive figures. And I did not call that engine silly. That would be stupid. I was talking about the tactic.

As for the car with bad sales for years now, you clearly know I was only talking about the CLK. Don't try to make it look like I was talking about the SL.

Don't spread rubbish about the price-difference aswell. There once was a time MB did better despite that, and it's not that big. Not forgetting the fact that for most cars, MB offers more engine's, lower engine's than BMW did ( like the 7 series )

In essential, what Beemerboi said is my point, maybe it's just my english. But I see at least he has persuaded you of that tactic. That's a good thing. Point is, MB did well but it has some serious issues and tries to hide them. Not just trying to hide drops because of replacements. Bigger problems of cars not really catching on.

 

[MB_AD]

where is worldwide sales

 

[EnI]

where is worldwide sales

Monday or Tueasdy.

 

[LaArtist]

freakin 7pages of discussion only cause MB where the only one to post green figures..this is a sad sad situation.. some ppl here are certainly NOT germancarfans

 

[RikfromBelgium]

not being able to accept criticism is also NOT fit for a germancarfan. it's a forum, get used to discussions. And some people did agree.

 

[LaArtist]

well im accepting it aint i?? otherwise i wouldnt read all that crap
but some ppl have nothing but critisism for other brands..
and praise and the most advanced explenations to **** ups from their own fav brand..
that kind of behaviour gets on my nerves.. period..
now i know that i cant do anything about it.. but i can atleast tell you all..

 

[RikfromBelgium]

Please don't try to make me look like some fanboy who can't say good things about any other brand. I did say MB did wel, I did respect the V12 engine, I do like the new CL ( mentionned it somewhere )

All I'm saying is this: MB with all their new or FL models, and BMW with their models at the end of their cycles: MB should do better and not resort to stupid groupes to show positive figures.

 

[LaArtist]

Now you cant be seriously dissing benz for writing a report that looks positive along with positive nr´s
what do you want them to do??
highlight the weakest points like you do??
please contact me when BMW press section releases a report that highlights the problems of the company ( or maybe you belive that BMW is problem free)

 

[Bruce]

The Artist made a valid point, but i want to make it clear i am not pointing a figure at anybody per se. I don't want to close this thread, but if i have to, i will.

 

[LaArtist]

im off this topic..its below me.. ive said what i wanted to say..
so close it or keep it..i dont care..

 

[Bruce]

so close it or keep it..i dont care..

It's staying open right now, but anymore hardcore fights and i'm closing it. That's my job It's nothing personal against anybody in this thread it's just how the forum rules are written. This has gone to a debate into what i consider to be a war.

 

[EnI]

Anyway in a day or two worldwide sales numbers will be available, and this issue (US sales numbers) won't be interesting anymore.

So, Rik & Merc1 - fight untill you still can.

 

[Merc1]

you do know how to spin my words.
I mentionned the SAV-group with BMW, did not deny that. But I also said that it wasn't the same as grouping the cars with just the same engine. THAT is silly. That is grasping to give positive figures. It's not even grouping those 3 models, just the ones with the V12. That is totally different, since only one can show positive figures. And I did not call that engine silly. That would be stupid. I was talking about the tactic.

IT IS NO MORE OF A STUPID TACTIC THAN WHEN BMW SEPERATES CAR SALES FROM SAV SALES IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT THEY POSTED A GAIN SOMEWHERE. WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? ALL THEY DID WAS POINT OUT THAT THEY CAN SELL FUEL EFFICIENT DIESELS AND GAS GUZZLING V12s EQUALLY.

As for the car with bad sales for years now, you clearly know I was only talking about the CLK. Don't try to make it look like I was talking about the SL.

YOU MENTIONED BOTH THE CLK AND THE SL. GO BACK AND READ YOUR OWN POST. IT DOESN'T MATTER, THE CLK ISN'T A BAD SELLER EITHER AS IT REGULAR OUTSELLS CARS IN THE SAME PRICE SEGMENT.

Don't spread rubbish about the price-difference aswell. There once was a time MB did better despite that, and it's not that big. Not forgetting the fact that for most cars, MB offers more engine's, lower engine's than BMW did ( like the 7 series

)

I'M SORRY IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS WORKS. MERCEDES SELLS LESS CARS AT HIGHER PRICES, PERIOD. BMW HAS NOTHING THAT SELLS IN ANY VOLUME PAST 80K, AND THAT IS WHERE THE S, SL, CL AND OTHER AMG CARS SELL FOR REGULARLY. BMW'S MAIN SELLER IN THE U.S. IS THE 3-SERIES WITH HAS A JILLION VARIANTS COMPARED TO THE C-CLASS. THERE IS IN C COUPE ANYMORE, NOR A C WAGON. THE CLK SELLS FOR MORE THAN THE 3-SERIES COUPE DOES AND IT GOES WAY BEYOND THE 3-SERIES COUPE IN PRICE ONCE YOU GET PAST THE CLK350.

In essential, what Beemerboi said is my point, maybe it's just my english. But I see at least he has persuaded you of that tactic. That's a good thing. Point is, MB did well but it has some serious issues and tries to hide them. Not just trying to hide drops because of replacements. Bigger problems of cars not really catching on.

AND MY POINT STILL STANDS, BMW DOES THE SAME BS WHEN THE RELEASE A PRESS RELEASE ON SALES. PERIOD. MERCEDES-BENZ DOES NOT HAVE ANY SERIOUS ISSUES IN THE U.S. MARKET, THAT IS JUST PLAIN BS. HOW IN THE WORLD CAN THEY HAVE "SERIOUS ISSUES" WHEN THEIR SALES ARE UP. BMW DOESN'T HAVE A SERIOUS ISSUE EITHER, EVEN THOUGH THEIR SALES ARE DOWN. YOU MAKE NO SENSE. BMW DOES THE SAME STUPID THING WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR SALE PRESS RELEASES, THEY SEPERATE THIS AND DIVIDE THAT IN ORDER TO SHOW A GAIN SOMEWHERE? DOES BMW HAVE A SERIOUS ISSUE OR ARE YOU GOING TO EXCUSE THEM BY SAYING THEY'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF NEW MODEL INTRODUCTIONS?

YOU'RE SINGLING OUT MB WHEN BMW DOES THE SAME THING. WHY IS THAT? THEN YOU GOT THE NERVE TO SAY THAT SOME AREN'T GERMANCAR FANS? YOUR WHOLE POSITION REEKS OF NOT BEING A GEREMANCAR FAN BECAUSE IF THIS WERE BMW POSTING GAINS MONTH AFTER MONTH YOU'D BE HAPRING ABOUT IT CONSTANTLY. NO, BECAUSE IT IS MERCEDES YOU HAVE TO NIT PICK THEIR SUCCESS TO DEAH WITH MINDLESS BS.

M