Gone off track Cost Cutting Discourse moved from next-gen G65 X5 thread

[SaltkjelenBMW]

I think it has been removed from the X5. But the X7 still has it.

Is there anything BMW hasn't removed or plans to remove soon?

My rear seats are almost never used. I'm just waiting for some BMW employee to read out data on how little the rear seats have been used and thus remove the rear seats "because we have data that so few people use the equipment".

New BMW slogan; "BMW - The Ultimate Cost Cutting Company - We cut where everyone else delivers, at the same price or higher than before."

 

[SKY]

Is there anything BMW hasn't removed or plans to remove soon?

My rear seats are almost never used. I'm just waiting for some BMW employee to read out data on how little the rear seats have been used and thus remove the rear seats "because we have data that so few people use the equipment".

New BMW slogan; "BMW - The Ultimate Cost Cutting Company - We cut where everyone else delivers, at the same price or higher than before."

The Ultimate Cost Cutting Machine.

 

[SaltkjelenBMW]

The Ultimate Cost Cutting Machine.

Yes, I should wrote that instead.

Or "Sheer Cost Cutting Pleasure"

 

[Esp5]

Is there anything BMW hasn't removed or plans to remove soon?

My rear seats are almost never used. I'm just waiting for some BMW employee to read out data on how little the rear seats have been used and thus remove the rear seats "because we have data that so few people use the equipment".

New BMW slogan; "BMW - The Ultimate Cost Cutting Company - We cut where everyone else delivers, at the same price or higher than before."

Beyond the X3 and a couple of parts from the 5 Series, it's not a big deal.
BMW has almost 20 series and numerous models in total. Yes, the cargo cover on the new iX3 is very bad, but the issue isn't nearly as serious as you're making it out to be, but I agree that they need to solve the existing problems and rise from here on

 

[SaltkjelenBMW]

Beyond the X3 and a couple of parts from the 5 Series, it's not a big deal.
BMW has almost 20 series and numerous models in total. Yes, the cargo cover on the new iX3 is very bad, but the issue isn't nearly as serious as you're making it out to be, but I agree that they need to solve the existing problems and rise from here on

Just a couple things has been removed or heavily affected by cost cuttings?

For the 5-series:
- Removal of the classic comfort and M-multifunction seats with upper seat backrest adjustment. No cusion for the headrest.
- Removed half of the seat adjustment switches with some very cheap plastic buttons. The other half has to be adjusted in the iDrive.
- Removed soft close doors option.
- Removed comfort access door handles for the rear doors.
- Removed the night vision option.
- Removed the rear seat entertainment option.
- Extremly cheap plastics inside everywhere in the interior.
- Various openings and edges in the doors were previously protected by rubber grommets - now it is bare metal.
- Sunroof switch with symbol of "opening" function with a fixed glass (!).
- Heavily reduced interior trim - no trim for the rear doors, just some small parts for the center console and front doors.
- No ambient light strip for the rear doors.
- Bowers & Wilkins surround system with plastic covers (they was in brushed aluminum).
- Cheap looking and feeling for the window switches and the area around the.
- Interior door openers without "aluminium sealing/overlay".
- Buttons with haptic feedback, like the iDrive controller which is nearly impossible to use.
- Few real leather options, no leather dashboard og door panels.
- No glass opening for the G61.
- No chrome/shiny parts, just matte silver grills, frames, model designation.
- No visible exhaust.
- No additional glove box storage for the driver side.
- The removal of the laser lights.
- Thin cover for the sunroof. The old G30 and previous models had thick plate.
- Plastic steering wheel airbag cover.
- No massage seats.
- A ridiculous light switch that gives you a shortcut into the iDrive screen.
- No door sills.
- Plastic sun visors, they was covered with fabric before.
++++

This is a trend for every single BMW. Features that has been available for a long time are now removed or heavily affected by BMWs cost cutting project. You can see it over the whole lineup, but the G60 and G45 is really bad. They havent went crazy on the existing models yet, but you can clearly see the downgrade for the G2x 2-, 3- and 4-series. I bet the new 3-series will be even worse.

New BMWs simply lack details. Maybe you could point out something that has better quality and finish than the previous model? I'm guessing that will be difficult (impossible).

 

[SaltkjelenBMW]

[...] you can clearly see the downgrade for the G2x 2-, 3- and 4-series with its LCI*

The models before LCI has way more options and higher quality/details.

 

[McLaren64TR]

Cost cuts are currently a trend and have become a necessity, especially for European manufacturers.

BMW is implementing cost cuts in its new models, particularly in the C, D, and E segments, but we see the same thing happening with Mercedes. The wood trim on the doors of the GLC EV has been completely removed.

Look at the Porsche Cayenne EV; you won't find any chrome, wood, or luxury design elements in the interior. Even the door handles are made of plastic. Given that this is the case even in a model much more expensive than the G45, I think it's unfair to criticize the cost cuts in more affordable BMWs. While undesirable, cost cuts are the best way for manufacturers to increase their declining profits.

 

[SaltkjelenBMW]

If cost cutting is so necessary for German car manufacturers, it is far easier to simplify the production of various elements, rather than making them inferior.

An example of this would be stopping produce 10 (!) different tail lights for the same car. E.g. G22/G23/G26 4-series:

One outer tail light right side for the US market
One outer tail light right side for EUR
One outer tail light left side for the US market
One outer tail light left side for EUR
One inner tail light right side for the US market without rear fog light
One inner tail light right side for EUR LHD without rear fog light
One inner tail light right side for EUR RHD with rear fog light
One inner tail light left side for the US market without rear fog light
One inner tail light left side for EUR LHD with rear fog light
One inner tail light left side for EUR RHD without rear fog light

Instead they could just produce 4 tail lights and code the functions depending on the market. And for the headlights. There is no sensible reason to produce different expensive headlights just because of the amber side marker lights for the US vs. non US!

And honestly. People are willing to pay extra for premium stuff. BMW removed the passenger side auto dim mirror in 2017 or so. Don't tell me that people wouldn't pay an additional $5-800 for an "premium side mirror package" where this is included. BMW didn't lowered the price for the option code 430/431 when they took it away anyway..

BMW says they collect data to ensure that this and that equipment is not used. Why care how much and how it is used, when the customer has paid for the item anyway? Take night vision as an example. Few people may have the image active on the screen, but NV still works passively and alerts in both the HUD and instrument cluster if it detects animals and people that you have not seen yet. It is a very valuable piece of equipment that provides an increased level of traffic safety. "Nobody use it"... Come on BMW.. "Nobody use it", but customers for $100k+ cars asks for it and want it. Almost every second X5 i see listed for sale in Norway have the Night Vision option equipped.

 

[MrRapp]

Cost cuts are currently a trend and have become a necessity, especially for European manufacturers.

BMW is implementing cost cuts in its new models, particularly in the C, D, and E segments, but we see the same thing happening with Mercedes. The wood trim on the doors of the GLC EV has been completely removed.

Look at the Porsche Cayenne EV; you won't find any chrome, wood, or luxury design elements in the interior. Even the door handles are made of plastic. Given that this is the case even in a model much more expensive than the G45, I think it's unfair to criticize the cost cuts in more affordable BMWs. While undesirable, cost cuts are the best way for manufacturers to increase their declining profits.

While I was quite sceptical about the Cayenne Electric, I have meanwhile been able to see it and sit inside at a recent dealer pre-launch event. Quite frankly, I was positively surprised about the interior quality: great material use everywhere, from soft-touch materials to leather on the center console, real metal finishing etc. Much better than the Macan-E which actually disappointed me a bit. Anticipated range (WLTP 620-640km) of Cayenne Electric will be less than what BMW meanwhile offers but in every other respect, Porsche has really made it a high quality product. I truly hope that BMW follows suit with the new (i)X5.

 

[klier]

Instead they could just produce 4 tail lights and code the functions depending on the market. And for the headlights. There is no sensible reason to produce different expensive headlights just because of the amber side marker lights for the US vs. non US!

Doesn't work that way. Regulations make it extremely difficult for a global car to fit to 100 different markets or more.

For example those Amber reflectors you are referring to are required to be physically there on U.S models, and not just as a software thing one can simply code in or out. You portray it far too simplistic obviously.
They make things as lean as possible in the production process for every market. It's not like they were in a mood like "hey, let's make 4 different tail light units just for fun and giggles."


I do however appreciate the effort in naming all the shortcuts BMW lately took. The list for the G60 is just extreme and shocking. What a f' ing horrible generation for the poor 5er. I want to forget about all this ASAP and move back to Wolfgang Reitzle quality levels.

 

[SaltkjelenBMW]

Its not always as simple, but in this case it could be simpler. BMW had rear fog light for both sides before, but now they only have it on the drivers side. They could easily skip two extra tail lights for the European market at least. Just code each fog light (or skip the extra wire it requires).

The difference on an EUR and US laser headlights is the amber side marker, limited functionality (coding) and the visible laser warning tag inside. The amber side marker is easy to code on/off, as well as the limited functions. They could definitely use the US headlights in Europe with correct codings. I’m running a BMW retrofit company in my country and know they could save a lot on doing things easier by coding.

 

[Matski]

While I get from the new car buyers perspective, new BMWs will represent more money and less features - I'm glad that the things that made me love BMW weren't soft close doors and massage seats.

 

[Centurion]

If cost cutting is so necessary for German car manufacturers, it is far easier to simplify the production of various elements, rather than making them inferior.

Toyota are cost cutting too in the Land Cruiser compared with the predecessor. This is the way of the world: Large screens and more ambient lighting to distract you from physical and material cuts elsewhere.

 

[SKY]

If cost cutting is so necessary for German car manufacturers, it is far easier to simplify the production of various elements, rather than making them inferior.

An example of this would be stopping produce 10 (!) different tail lights for the same car. E.g. G22/G23/G26 4-series:

One outer tail light right side for the US market
One outer tail light right side for EUR
One outer tail light left side for the US market
One outer tail light left side for EUR
One inner tail light right side for the US market without rear fog light
One inner tail light right side for EUR LHD without rear fog light
One inner tail light right side for EUR RHD with rear fog light
One inner tail light left side for the US market without rear fog light
One inner tail light left side for EUR LHD with rear fog light
One inner tail light left side for EUR RHD without rear fog light

Instead they could just produce 4 tail lights and code the functions depending on the market. And for the headlights. There is no sensible reason to produce different expensive headlights just because of the amber side marker lights for the US vs. non US!

And honestly. People are willing to pay extra for premium stuff. BMW removed the passenger side auto dim mirror in 2017 or so. Don't tell me that people wouldn't pay an additional $5-800 for an "premium side mirror package" where this is included. BMW didn't lowered the price for the option code 430/431 when they took it away anyway..

BMW says they collect data to ensure that this and that equipment is not used. Why care how much and how it is used, when the customer has paid for the item anyway? Take night vision as an example. Few people may have the image active on the screen, but NV still works passively and alerts in both the HUD and instrument cluster if it detects animals and people that you have not seen yet. It is a very valuable piece of equipment that provides an increased level of traffic safety. "Nobody use it"... Come on BMW.. "Nobody use it", but customers for $100k+ cars asks for it and want it. Almost every second X5 i see listed for sale in Norway have the Night Vision option equipped.

Thanks for the summary. Certainly useful for those interested in buying a new German car, as this missery spreads across several German manufacturers. It's even worse that corporations have these online minions willing to clap at each cost cutting decission with the excuse that is not that much or that other manufacturers are doing the same.

I just bought a German car and I can clearly see the areas of cost cutting in the interior. Yes, other brands have done similar things, but that is not at all a consolation for me. I'm paying more money for a product that is less refined.

 

[martinbo]

Hmm, constant discussion around what car makers are removing, mostly unaccompanied by what car markers have been adding, year-on-year.

 

[SaltkjelenBMW]

Hmm, constant discussion around what car makers are removing, mostly unaccompanied by what car markers have been adding, year-on-year.

Please explain what improvements, quality increases, or other innovations BMW has introduced that are better than its predecessors.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Hmm, constant discussion around what car makers are removing, mostly unaccompanied by what car markers have been adding, year-on-year.

I guess because the decontenting is more evident and palpable, compared to the massive costs that now have to go into the electrical components etc. The parts that we dont see or experience but take for granted are there. The costs of implementing all of these driver safety and autonomous systems would be considerable.

I also do feel for the European manufacturers who were screwed by their own governments. The ones that are supposed to provide the framework for sustainable growth, but also be mindful of what their constituents want . They screwed their manufacturers as well as their markets.

Still BMW has resisted the cost cutting longer than most and I suspect their turnaround will be swift given the iX3 already seems to be a notable improvement over other recent launches.

 

[martinbo]

Please explain what improvements, quality increases, or other innovations BMW has introduced that are better than its predecessors.

You’re surely not asking me to write a dissertation on the model-on-model progress of BMWs over the years. You can research this yourself.

 

[klier]

I guess because the decontenting is more evident and palpable, compared to the massive costs that now have to go into the electrical components etc. The parts that we dont see or experience but take for granted are there. The costs of implementing all of these driver safety and autonomous systems would be considerable.

It's much more than that even. The Neue Klasse is an entirely new way of making cars. Literally everything's different.

I do agree on your assessment but I however put more weight into incompetent CEOs rather than government mandates.

 

[Design FIRST]

I also do feel for the European manufacturers who were screwed by their own governments. The ones that are supposed to provide the framework for sustainable growth, but also be mindful of what their constituents want . They screwed their manufacturers as well as their markets.

Dilettantism is a major issue regarding rational, constructive alignments of politics with technologies, logistics and the economics involved. Here in the EU, the vast majority of parliamentarians feature "qualifications" anchored in social/political sciences, law , humanistic sciences and the controlling sectors of economics. Technology, engineering and logistical sciences as very seldom their forte. This creates dissonance that can lead to thoughtless, reckless legislation when it comes to highly complex technological issues. Decisions made in a political process are often whimsical and shortsighted.