Should there be good reason to be highly critical of the Asian car manufacturers?


DreamWeaaver

Fuel Gauge Fan
Ok...to give credit to the Asians, I believe the world is witnessing their rapid rise...in general...in innovation, creativity, cars (of course)....I don't think the Asian cars are superior to the European cars per say but I believe they have greatly improved...now I'm mostly talking about Japanese and Koreans....Not quite sure about the Chinese....

But West has been ahead for quite some time...in the past 200-400 years...in innovation and creativity at the least. But admittedly, there WAS a time when Europeans, even Germans, were considered making "inferior" and "low quality" products and cheap copy-cat innovations at one time...although it was hundreds of years ago. Although the Asians were far ahead and more innovative and dominant thousand years ago, Westerners have been ahead in the past 400 years or so.

Although I am impressed with the '12 Hyundai Elantra...i mean 2012 NA car of the year ;D
Any thoughts? Opinions? This isn't just about Cars but a general historical question.
 
Asian cars are brilliant and they are brilliant in their reliability, value and fuel economy. Not everyone is an upper middle class citizen who can afford a E320 or a BMW X5. Cars from the far east have great reliability and tend to be easier to repair than the electronics ladened Euro automobiles. It's also worth mentioning that the west borrows manufacturing philosophies and technologies from the West.

The challenge for Asian manufacturers is to wash away the stigma of being "cheap". Even people in Asian believe that luxury can only come from Europe. Lexus and Kia have taken several steps forward in propelling high-end capabilities of Sian manufacturer but they are not quite there yet. An extraordinary car similar to the GT-R for the luxury industry is what it would take for the car industry and consumers to be convinced that luxury can indeed come from Asia too.
 
Go drive a Korean/Japanese/Asian products (current Chinese products is still sh!t at best, though that will change for the better in the not to distant future) there is nothing wrong with it!

So why critical? STOP COPYING German designs and innovations! That's it! Its totally unethical bragging and trying to build a brand on other manufacturers hard, innovative thinking and progress. It's bloody lazy and stealing! Schreyer gave KIA a unique face and design, nice I'd say! Until the K9 copy-cat flagship came along that f-uped all KIA's 'independent' credentials.:mad:

There are of course many more examples of "I wanna be like Mike" copying;)
 
No.

Well, except some of the Chinese makes that make blatant reproduction, whereas many of the Japanese makes' designs are more like homage than a xerox copy. But I predict many of the Chinese makes will be quick to learn and they are making great inroads. Also, Proton is pretty terrible but functional. Indian makes have made some strides as, until recently, were rebadged Fiats from the 1950's.

Japanese metal are pretty reliable and alot of them do have personality. It's not a European personality, but their own. And in this world, it's nice to have choices.
 
No.

Well, except some of the Chinese makes that make blatant reproduction, whereas many of the Japanese makes' designs are more like homage than a xerox copy. But I predict many of the Chinese makes will be quick to learn and they are making great inroads. Also, Proton is pretty terrible but functional. Indian makes have made some strides as, until recently, were rebadged Fiats from the 1950's.

Japanese metal are pretty reliable and alot of them do have personality. It's not a European personality, but their own. And in this world, it's nice to have choices.

Nice...what about South Korean? Anyway I'm not sure what you are implying by "European personality" and "Asian personality"...are you implying one is better than other?
 
Nice...what about South Korean? Anyway I'm not sure what you are implying by "European personality" and "Asian personality"...are you implying one is better than other?
No he is not, he is saying it is fantastic to have choices. First and final warning for you, DreamWeaaver, please refrain from any personal attack or insinuate racial debate in this forum.
 
East Asia is capable of originality but it's news like this that taints the regions artistic promises:

http://gizmodo.com/5916079/chinese-real-estate-developers-successfully-clone-entire-austrian-village

5158694b16699d454f7e59a9b17ca0f8.webp


320dd5bbb4889f90524069a297dfee57.webp
 
East Asia is capable of originality but it's news like this that taints the regions artistic promises:

http://gizmodo.com/5916079/chinese-real-estate-developers-successfully-clone-entire-austrian-village

5158694b16699d454f7e59a9b17ca0f8.webp


320dd5bbb4889f90524069a297dfee57.webp

lol thats pretty funny....had a good laugh. =)

Perhaps I'm jumping the bandwagon too early here....well if it's any consolation you should ask the Israelis which car is their new favorite (was Mazda, now Hyundai..). I guess certain areas around the world favor certain cars from certain countries. Whatever floats their boats...but the future does look promising and I'll stay optimistic.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/vw-martin-winterkorn-hyundai-i30-frankfurt-iaa-2011,news-12669.html
 
East Asia is capable of originality but it's news like this that taints the regions artistic promises:

http://gizmodo.com/5916079/chinese-real-estate-developers-successfully-clone-entire-austrian-village

5158694b16699d454f7e59a9b17ca0f8.webp


320dd5bbb4889f90524069a297dfee57.webp

There was a time where I'd be annoyed by things like these, but now I consider it a form of appreciation, especially if the intention is admirable. Take for example Larry Ellison...he built an estate for himself modeled after feudal japanese architecture in california. Now he could have gone for the usual ubiquitous Mission-style architecture, but he's a guy who appreciates Japanese culture (LFA owner, if I'm not mistaken). I'd like to give the Chinese developer the benefit of the doubt in that he was enthralled by the Austrian scenery instead of being some gimmicky cash-grab. Or at least that's what his initial intention was.

I , myself, know that I would love to continue living State-side, but if I was in a position to have a house or estate built to my own liking, I would go Tuscan style. Or if I was really lucky, I'd say forget about that, and actually get a Tuscan villa situated on vineyard. Or, the very least, a place on Lago Garda. ;-) *Goes off and daydreams a bit*

*Snaps out of it* Ok, where was I? South Korean cars, eh? They are making significant improvements. Personality is lacking right now, but they are starting to bear some attributes that help them stand out, i.e. Genesis Coupe, Kia Soul. S. Korean are on the trek that Japanese companies have taken, but they are doing it at a faster rate. Right now, I would consider going in to a dealership and checking out their wares if I was in the market for a mainstream, run-of-the-mill car. And that's a testament of how far they'had come because, even 5 years ago, I would have not considered them at all. I'd give them another 5 years just to see how well they hold up, but it looks very encouraging.

It should be noted, in my context of S. korean cars, I can only make my observations based on Kias and Hyundais, and not Ssayyong and Samsung, as I don't get those brands here in the States.
 
There was a time where I'd be annoyed by things like these, but now I consider it a form of appreciation, especially if the intention is admirable. Take for example Larry Ellison...he built an estate for himself modeled after feudal japanese architecture in california. Now he could have gone for the usual ubiquitous Mission-style architecture, but he's a guy who appreciates Japanese culture (LFA owner, if I'm not mistaken). I'd like to give the Chinese developer the benefit of the doubt in that he was enthralled by the Austrian scenery instead of being some gimmicky cash-grab. Or at least that's what his initial intention was.

I , myself, know that I would love to continue living State-side, but if I was in a position to have a house or estate built to my own liking, I would go Tuscan style. Or if I was really lucky, I'd say forget about that, and actually get a Tuscan villa situated on vineyard. Or, the very least, a place on either Lago Garda. ;-) *Goes off and daydreams a bit*

*Snaps out of it* Ok, where was I? South Korean cars, eh? They are making significant improvements. Personality is lacking right now, but they are starting to bear some attributes that help them stand out, i.e. Genesis Coupe, Kia Soul. S. Korean are on the trek that Japanese companies have taken, but they are doing it at a faster rate. Right now, I would consider going in to a dealership and checking out their wares if I was in the market for a mainstream, run-of-the-mill car. And that's a testament of how far they'had come because, even 5 years ago, I would have not considered them at all. I'd give them another 5 years just to see how well they hold up, but it looks very encouraging.

It should be noted, in my context of S. korean cars, I can only make my observations based on Kias and Hyundais, and not Ssayyong and Samsung, as I don't get those brands here in the States.

Interesting. Well I have been accustomed to Japanese cars for awhile....It was true that long decades ago Japanese cars were considered inferior compared to the ones made in the West, but I guess they've made great strides since then til today...although It seems they are somewhat on the stagnant though..

South Korea....I'm skeptic...mostly just because I don't know too much about it...but I heard a few things about Hyundai. Could you further elaborate more on SK?
 
If you asked about Hyundais and Kias 4 years ago, I'd been a bit skeptical, but these two car brand have the backing of the Hyundai Group, which has tons of money and they are not stupid. In the US 5-6 years ago, they realized their products were suffering a bit of a stigma. IMO, well-deserved stigma, in that their build quality was shabby. So they offered a 10 year warranty. That help generate interest in the brand. They were still considered a bit a joke, but it seems to communicate to people that they will stand behind their products and a perception of increased confidence. This led to more people coming and more people buying their cars and made them more of a legitimate player.

However, they decided to change course. Based on an article I read few years ago somewhere in either WallStreet Journal, BusinessWeek, or some other legitimate outlet, one of the higher ups in Hyundai North America said that they needed to not only up their quality, but up their appeal in order to maintain this momentum. Partly, because that 10-year warranty would become too pricey for Hyundai in the long-run and they would like to be known for quality. I think their gambit of offering a 10 year warrant, while risky, was brilliant. Consumers want their products, especially those that relatively pricey items, to have the backing of the company. Hyundai has done a fantastic job of hearing what consumers want and distilling that into a product. But what also shows how committed they about taking it to the big guys (Ford, Toyota, Honda, et al) is not only listening to potential customers, but hiring and attracting people from other, more established companies, and have them implement it.

Regarding, Samsung...again, I don't know too much about their cars, but since they are allied with Renault-Nissan, I see good things happening with them as well.

Unfortunately, Japanese cars and electronics have become stagnant. Lots of reasons for it too... natural disasters played a signifcant role in that. But before the devastating and tragic events of the March 2011 tsunami/earthquake and Thailand disasters, there existed big problems. One of them was the sudden rise of S. Korean products and them being blind-sided. Another was the economic calamity of the years prior. And another reason that confounded Japanese automakers was that their near-bulletproof reliability experienced a slight slip. And that's one of the biggest reasons why people buy Japanese cars. And there are other reasons where I'm not very well-versed...I'll let others more knowledgeable expound on those areas.

That being said, I really don't think it's all doom and gloom for Japanese carmakers. First of all, the slip in reliability was less significant, I think it was blown way out of proportion. Japanese carmakers realize that reliability is one of the biggest reasons why consumers buy their cars, and they are and will rectify that. While there are more viable options out there, Japanese automakers, especially Toyota and Honda, enjoy some best repeat buyers in the industry. Yes, there have been few who have abandoned them for other makes, but their numbers are still strong. And I see Toyota and Honda working towards making their products more attractive because they have to otherwise they will continue to lose customers in the long-run. Again, it should be noted, I only say all this based on the US market as that's all I know about. Abroad, I'm not that knowledgeable how Japanese cars are faring in other markets as of late.

Ok...to give credit to the Asians, I believe the world is witnessing their rapid rise...in general...in innovation, creativity, cars (of course)....I don't think the Asian cars are superior to the European cars per say but I believe they have greatly improved...now I'm mostly talking about Japanese and Koreans....Not quite sure about the Chinese....

But West has been ahead for quite some time...in the past 200-400 years...in innovation and creativity at the least. But admittedly, there WAS a time when Europeans, even Germans, were considered making "inferior" and "low quality" products and cheap copy-cat innovations at one time...although it was hundreds of years ago. Although the Asians were far ahead and more innovative and dominant thousand years ago, Westerners have been ahead in the past 400 years or so.

Although I am impressed with the '12 Hyundai Elantra...i mean 2012 NA car of the year ;D
Any thoughts? Opinions? This isn't just about Cars but a general historical question.

Unfortunately, when I come home late, I tend to become more bleary-eyed not read the whole thing, whether it'd be an article or post. I saw the first paragraph and launched into my defense of Japanese makers because, as much as I love the Euro makes, I love the Japanese and American makes as well. That said, I absolutely will not go beyond talking about cars (and electronics) because this is a car forum. Also, while I try not to make too many assumptions, I'm rather wary of what you are trying to get at with the last two paragraphs, especially since you are new here. So I'll leave at that.

East Asia is capable of originality but it's news like this that taints the regions artistic promises:

http://gizmodo.com/5916079/chinese-real-estate-developers-successfully-clone-entire-austrian-village

Having now read the article ("Reading articles"...what a novel concept, right?)...

I can't help feeling a little bit cynical. But I stand by what I said earlier. While I'm sure the China Minmetals saw this a great cash-grab from the "nouveau riche," I'd like to think the person who came up with the idea over at China Minmetals was a great admirer of the architecture.

Or maybe it was a cold, calculated way to make some more yuans. :D

Damn, I spent waaaaay too much time rambling on here......
 
This thread could use a little bit of shaping up. Keep it clean, friends!

Other than that, Hoffmeister, I saw half of your wishlist today :-)
 
Admittedly, I went off on a bit of a ramble earlier. Sometimes I don't know when to stop. But I'm not one to bad-mouth most automakers unless they really deserve it. My fondness for Japanese metal is well-documented.

This thread could use a little bit of shaping up. Keep it clean, friends!

Other than that, Hoffmeister, I saw half of your wishlist today :)

oooh, really? You lucky-ducky Dr. Dunky...where was this, and in detail, do tell which ones. :D
 
I assumed most people here are Germans, or at least Europeans. Cool to know there are some Americans here :D
 

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