Mercedes-Benz to defeat Lexus by 2008.

[Osnabrueck]

However, Lexus has a real edge over MB now - and just about everyone else - in terms of hybrid technology. Where Toyota/Lexus really needs to put billions more into R&D is in diesel technology, where it is around 2-3 years behind the Europeans. If they can life their game here and combine their hyrbid system with this, then you could see GS sized cars doing 0-100 km/h times in 5 seconds flat and deliver combined 35-40 mpg. But maybe MB will get there first...?

Boz, I'm close to the front-line on this issue. What the numbers tell us is that the Prius has been single-handedly carrying the water for Hybrid.

Lexus has something unique in the GS450h and RX400h but the message has a hard time penetrating the skulls of premium car buyers. Are these performance cars, like an AMG? Are they eco friendly hippies in designer suits? Will they save me a fortune at the pump?

Unfortunately, the answer is a bit of all those things, but not enough of any one of them. What speaks to the sensibilities of the average car buyer doesn't exactly resonate when we're talking about vehicles that are easily in excess of $50,000 US. They're not enough of a performance car although they're very quick, and while they'll save you tons of gas, they're also priced as range-toppers.

On the lower end of things, cars like the Honda Accord and Toyota Highlander hybrids are collecting dust. So while demand is ovbiously present for Hybrid, it's also clear that the Prius is a watershed product that's somewhat distorted our perceptions of market forces.

I don't count Hyrbid as an analogue to Diesel by any means. Hybrid is a transitory technology that doesn't deliver qualities important to premium car buyers.

ANYWAYS - back on topic. I like what I hear and I'm eager to see how much Mercedes is able to walk all that talk. Some very interesting and encouraging comments about the R-Klasse. I'm very optimistic about where Mercedes will find itself in 3 years time.

 

[Merc1]

Boz, I'm close to the front-line on this issue. What the numbers tell us is that the Prius has been single-handedly carrying the water for Hybrid.

Lexus has something unique in the GS450h and RX400h but the message has a hard time penetrating the skulls of premium car buyers. Are these performance cars, like an AMG? Are they eco friendly hippies in designer suits? Will they save me a fortune at the pump?

Unfortunately, the answer is a bit of all those things, but not enough of any one of them. What speaks to the sensibilities of the average car buyer doesn't exactly resonate when we're talking about vehicles that are easily in excess of $50,000 US. They're not enough of a performance car although they're very quick, and while they'll save you tons of gas, they're also priced as range-toppers.

On the lower end of things, cars like the Honda Accord and Toyota Highlander hybrids are collecting dust. So while demand is ovbiously present for Hybrid, it's also clear that the Prius is a watershed product that's somewhat distorted our perceptions of market forces.

I don't count Hyrbid as an analogue to Diesel by any means. Hybrid is a transitory technology that doesn't deliver qualities important to premium car buyers.

ANYWAYS - back on topic. I like what I hear and I'm eager to see how much Mercedes is able to walk all that talk. Some very interesting and encouraging comments about the R-Klasse. I'm very optimistic about where Mercedes will find itself in 3 years time.

Very well said. I think this uber-hybrid, the LS600HL will prove whether or not buyers of premium cars really care about this hybrid angle.

M

 

[SDNR]

So while demand is ovbiously present for Hybrid, it's also clear that the Prius is a watershed product that's somewhat distorted our perceptions of market forces.

I don't count Hyrbid as an analogue to Diesel by any means. Hybrid is a transitory technology that doesn't deliver qualities important to premium car buyers.

Very interesting comments Osnabrueck -- why do you think the Prius has done so well?. I can't help thinking the Prius has just become a kind of banner that Hollywood's "greenies" like to wave about to show how much they care about the planet ...of course they still have their G55s and their obligatory Lincoln limousines. Maybe this is why Toyota feel there is a market for the hybrid Lexus ..because so many affluent celebrities now own a Prius.

 

[Osnabrueck]

...why do you think the Prius has done so well?.

For most people the Prius isn't a Hybrid car, it's the Hybrid car.

I guess the most important thing is that the Prius is purpose-built, completely unique from the ground up and has been able to shake the perception of being a "compromise vehicle" by integrating a semi-premium experience into every car (unlike the Honda insight which was a compromised and sad affair). There's also the distinct sense that Toyota wanted to build this vehicle, and has poured their hearts into the project as opposed building something to placate bureaucrats.

So basically we're talking about good styling, a competitive price point, a surprisingly spacious interior, Toyota's reputation and the sense that you're driving a car of the future with featues like the standard LCD display and optional keyless entry. Not only can you use this car as your family hauler, you can be proud of the damn thing!

Add insane gas prices to an already appealing package and you can see why there's still waiting lists for these things. This car has been able to reach beyond the environmental crowd and is essentially peerless despite the fact that there's plenty of Hybrid-equipped cars within Toyota's own range.

I'm not bullish on the LS600hl. I understand Lexus trying to position Hybrid as a prestige trim within their range, but there's not enough of a concise message to hang onto when we're talking about range-topping vehicles. The Lexus message has been equal parts ecology and performance, but there's not really enough of either to get the public fixed-in on these vehicles.

 

[Merc1]

The Prius has done well because it is a pure hybrid, not just a hybrid version of a existing car. Here in the U.S. it has this greenie image and because of its unique (ugly IMO) design it says green and you know what it is when you see it. With other hybrids you can't really tell if you're looking at the regular version of a Civic, Camry or Highlander for instance, or the hybrid version. The Prius is a popular cult car if you will, it says "green" more than anything else on the road. This is why Honda has just announced that they are going to build a pure-hybrid car for 2009 to combat this because their other hybrids (which are built on existing versions of a regular production model) don't get the same attention. The Prius killed that awful little Insight hybrid they had, which was a pure-hybrid, but was even worse looking and not nearly as practical as the Prius.

M

 

[Merc1]

For most people the Prius isn't a Hybrid car, it's the Hybrid car.

I guess the most important thing is that the Prius is purpose-built,completely unique the ground up and has been able to shake the perception of being a "compromise vehicle" by integrating a semi-premium experience into every car (unlike the Honda insight which was a compromised and sad affair). There's also the distinct sense that Toyota wanted to build this vehicle, and has poured their hearts into the project as opposed building something to placate bureaucrats.

So basically we're talking about good styling, a competitive price point, a surprisingly spacious interior, Toyota's reputation and the sense that you're driving a car of the future with featues like the standard LCD display and optional keyless entry. Not only can you use this car as your family hauler, you can be proud of the damn thing!

Add insane gas prices to an already appealing package and you can see why there's still waiting lists for these things. This car has been able to reach beyond the environmental crowd and is essentially peerless despite the fact that there's plenty of Hybrid-equipped cars within Toyota's own range.

I'm not bullish on the LS600hl. I understand Lexus trying to position Hybrid as a prestige trim withing their range, but there's not enough of a concise message to hang onto when we're talking about range-topping vehicles. The Lexus message has been equal parts ecology and performance, but there's not really enough of either to get the public fixed-in on these vehicles.

Look at that, we posted at the same time and we're saying the samething about the Prius.

M

 

[Bozzor]

I wonder if it is just a matter of re-educating the public. In Australia - admittedly a very small market - the Prius is doing extremely well, so much so there is a 3-4 month wait for the type. But as for premium cars, I do think that eventually, people will get the message, though I acknowlede the learning process may take many years. Hybrids do make sense in city conditions. The good reviews the GS450h has gotten (aside from the small boot!) gives me hope that this technology can be compeetive edge in the battle for hearts, minds and dollars of premium buyers. MB is going down the hybrid route, which is a fine tick for the concept.

 

[SDNR]

I wonder if it is just a matter of re-educating the public. In Australia - admittedly a very small market - the Prius is doing extremely well, so much so there is a 3-4 month wait for the type. But as for premium cars, I do think that eventually, people will get the message, though I acknowlede the learning process may take many years. Hybrids do make sense in city conditions. The good reviews the GS450h has gotten (aside from the small boot!) gives me hope that this technology can be compeetive edge in the battle for hearts, minds and dollars of premium buyers. MB is going down the hybrid route, which is a fine tick for the concept.

I agree Bozzer ...the whole "green issue" is a concern of the affluent west ...there are many upper-middle class 30 somethings who eat only organic food, drink only "ethical" coffee, and only wear clothes made with high-quality natural fibers .....these are the same people who would buy a mid-range luxury hybrid vehicle.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

When it comes to vehicles like the RX400H and GS400H, or whatever they're called, I think Toyota couldn't give a hoot about the environment. It's just a marketing ploy. They're neither outstanding in terms of frugality or performance, merely good at both.

 

[Deutsch]

By now we should all know that Zetsche is a walk the walk kinda a guy, who does a good bit of talking but just for the sake of shutting everyone else up. Look at what the man has done for the Chrysler brand, he's made a once stodgy, P.O.S., family/grandparents car company (like so much of the Big 3) into cool "gotta have" products that old any young aspire to (reasoning withstanding of course). If he implements lean manufacturing into the brand (which it sounds like he' s going to do) things can truly take a turn for a much more stabalized and prosperity driven future for this gargantuan multi national. To add Zetsche is going to streamline the brands products to create a much more meaningful and purpose driven lineup of true MB cars that deliver on brand ethics (R-class is a sin). I raise a toast to the reign of Dr. Z.

 

[Merc1]

Have you guys seen the commericals in which he talks about German engineering in today's Chryslers while flying around a test track in various models scaring the hell out of a auto writer?

M

 

[Deutsch]

Have you guys seen the commericals in which he talks about German engineering in today's Chryslers while flying around a test track in various models scaring the hell out of a auto writer?

M

Yes! It's great, and he's totally not doing some sympathy plea for the American buying public to take Chrysler groups cars seriously as did Bill Ford in the Ford turnaround ad campaign. Check out askDrZ.com

 

[Deutsch]

One important point I forgot to make is that MB's will become sportier indeed, albeit the MB way, going through corners with aplomb while at the same time maitaining excellent body control and ride comfort, all the while intrusions from the outside world are neither heard nor felt. That's MB sporty.

 

[Merc1]

One important point I forgot to make is that MB's will become sportier indeed, albeit the MB way, going through corners with aplomb while at the same time maitaining excellent body control and ride comfort, all the while intrusions from the outside world are neither heard nor felt. That's MB sporty.

Yes Deutsch that is what I'm talking about!

M

 

[Merc1]

More along the same lines as this thread:

Mercedes' new image emphasizes service
Sporty is downplayed, brand focus returns to value, comfort, safety

By JASON STEIN | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS EUROPE

AutoWeek | Published 07/10/06, 11:19 am et


Advertisement
Click Here!
REYKJAVIK, Iceland -- Mercedes-Benz is repositioning its brand image to emphasize customer service. The aim is to win back buyers discouraged by declining quality.

DaimlerChrysler and Mercedes boss Dieter Zetsche is pushing the new brand campaign, which Mercedes has labeled "Appreciation."

The pillars of the new marketing strategy are service, comfort, value and safety. Mercedes is expected to launch the campaign globally later this summer.

"The idea is that all Mercedes customers who buy our cars will feel appreciated," Markus Rubenbauer, head of product management for M-, R- and GL-class models, told Automotive News Europe during a press event here. "It's now important for us to re-emphasize values that have always been there."

A Mercedes insider said Zetsche gave the automaker's marketing team the task of "sharpening the brand's image" a few months ago.

The idea is to use traditional values to reconnect customers to the Mercedes brand. Sportiness is no longer the priority it was when Mercedes unveiled its E-class medium-premium car in 1995 under the campaign "See new eyes."

"That was meant to show the new 'face' of Mercedes and was an important step in emphasizing that we could build reliable vehicles that were sporty," Rubenbauer said.

But the new strategy "doesn't mean a 180-degree turnaround," Zetsche told Germany's Capital magazine recently. "Now customer satisfaction is in the foreground, not just for the product but also for all of the services."

In the last two years, technology problems have damaged Mercedes' reputation. After two major recalls of vehicles plagued by faulty electronics -- alternators, batteries and brake systems -- Zetsche wants Mercedes to be No. 1 in quality surveys.

Chasing Skoda

In a J.D. Power and Associates survey released last week, Mercedes ranked No. 11 out of 28 auto-makers in customer satisfaction in Germany -- behind Skoda and Daihatsu. In France, Mercedes fell two spots to No. 10 overall, just above the industry average. The surveys rate brands on the quality and reliability of their cars and the quality of their dealerships.

Mercedes dealers are also part of the "Appreciation" campaign. Within a month, dealers will get a training course to emphasize the importance of a one-on-one relationship.

"We need to service the customer the right way in day-to-day business," Rubenbauer said, "because that's the first contact with the customer."

Mercedes executives were scheduled to consider approving the campaign July 10, media reports say.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060711/FREE/60710013/1041

M

 

[Imhotep Evil]

More along the same lines as this thread:

Mercedes' new image emphasizes service
Sporty is downplayed, brand focus returns to value, comfort, safety

By JASON STEIN | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS EUROPE

AutoWeek | Published 07/10/06, 11:19 am et


Advertisement
Click Here!
REYKJAVIK, Iceland -- Mercedes-Benz is repositioning its brand image to emphasize customer service. The aim is to win back buyers discouraged by declining quality.

DaimlerChrysler and Mercedes boss Dieter Zetsche is pushing the new brand campaign, which Mercedes has labeled "Appreciation."

The pillars of the new marketing strategy are service, comfort, value and safety. Mercedes is expected to launch the campaign globally later this summer.

"The idea is that all Mercedes customers who buy our cars will feel appreciated," Markus Rubenbauer, head of product management for M-, R- and GL-class models, told Automotive News Europe during a press event here. "It's now important for us to re-emphasize values that have always been there."

A Mercedes insider said Zetsche gave the automaker's marketing team the task of "sharpening the brand's image" a few months ago.

The idea is to use traditional values to reconnect customers to the Mercedes brand. Sportiness is no longer the priority it was when Mercedes unveiled its E-class medium-premium car in 1995 under the campaign "See new eyes."

"That was meant to show the new 'face' of Mercedes and was an important step in emphasizing that we could build reliable vehicles that were sporty," Rubenbauer said.

But the new strategy "doesn't mean a 180-degree turnaround," Zetsche told Germany's Capital magazine recently. "Now customer satisfaction is in the foreground, not just for the product but also for all of the services."

In the last two years, technology problems have damaged Mercedes' reputation. After two major recalls of vehicles plagued by faulty electronics -- alternators, batteries and brake systems -- Zetsche wants Mercedes to be No. 1 in quality surveys.

Chasing Skoda

In a J.D. Power and Associates survey released last week, Mercedes ranked No. 11 out of 28 auto-makers in customer satisfaction in Germany -- behind Skoda and Daihatsu. In France, Mercedes fell two spots to No. 10 overall, just above the industry average. The surveys rate brands on the quality and reliability of their cars and the quality of their dealerships.

Mercedes dealers are also part of the "Appreciation" campaign. Within a month, dealers will get a training course to emphasize the importance of a one-on-one relationship.

"We need to service the customer the right way in day-to-day business," Rubenbauer said, "because that's the first contact with the customer."

Mercedes executives were scheduled to consider approving the campaign July 10, media reports say.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060711/FREE/60710013/1041

M

It could have been even better IMO, like "Appreciation, for an automobile engineered like no other".

Any with the comfusion and decline of the MB lately this is major step in the right direction.

 

[Merc1]

I cursed the day they stop using that slogan.

M

 

[SDNR]

By now we should all know that Zetsche is a walk the walk kinda a guy, who does a good bit of talking but just for the sake of shutting everyone else up. Look at what the man has done for the Chrysler brand, he's made a once stodgy, P.O.S., family/grandparents car company (like so much of the Big 3) into cool "gotta have" products that old any young aspire to (reasoning withstanding of course). If he implements lean manufacturing into the brand (which it sounds like he' s going to do) things can truly take a turn for a much more stabalized and prosperity driven future for this gargantuan multi national. To add Zetsche is going to streamline the brands products to create a much more meaningful and purpose driven lineup of true MB cars that deliver on brand ethics (R-class is a sin). I raise a toast to the reign of Dr. Z.

I agree with you Deutsch ..."Dr. Z" did do a great job at turning Chrysler around ....I think back a few years ago to the hideous Chrysler Neon, I will never understand how they actually managed to export them (an extraordinary achievement in salesmanship if ever there was), it's hard to believe the 300C is produced by the same manufacturer.

Zetsche was good at cutting back the costs ...and that is all good and well for a mid-range manufacturer like Chrysler ...but at the high end of the market things are different ...apart from anything else, perceptions come into play. People expect Mercedes to be developed with as little compromise as possible, afterall they are prepared to pay a premium price for the privilege of owning that badge ..and all it represents.

 

[Bozzor]

I had to borrow a Neon to make an urgent meeting a few days ago. This 2004 car would have been an OK one...had it been released arounf 1996. It seemed to be a generation behind the competition: HVH, handling, interior quality, fit and finish...very poor.