Gone off track From the 'Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?' thread

[Design FIRST]

China is IMHO dead, period.

I agree with everything else.

Eurocrats bumbling about regarding the envisioned EU-Mercosur Trade Accord is a big problem. India's market will become increasingly important. Rebounding in China is indeed questionable as German manufacturers and policy makers were asleep at the wheel for far, far too long. The U.S. market ? As an old guy "socialized" in the spirit of a strong, constructive Transatlantic Relationship, I've never been more aware of the very real threat that it may have now irreversibly collapsed and that a "decoupling process" will gain in momentum and perhaps ferocity as well. EU-Canada has now become the far more stable Transatlantic Relationship.

Turbulent times these are...

 

[Swissbob]

The Elefant in the room are US specific cars, which the Japanese companies are building for decades.

Or could you imagine the Toyota Tundra in the tight streets of Japan or Italy.

Are German companies prepared to develop specific cars and engines for the US market, that’s the question.

Let’s be honest, the crazy CO2 taxes in Europe are killing big non hybrid engines on the European market.

That’s why the RS5 became a 2.4t car. 86g CO2 compared 233g CO2/km means much lower taxes.

But in the USA people don’t want these highly complicated cars, they want a big V8 as we could see on Stellantis.
People prefer the much weaker hemi to the much stronger hurricane straight 6 in the ram 1500.

The next generation of gm small block engines grows to 6.7L, naturally aspirated of course.

 

[Design FIRST]

The Elefant in the room are US specific cars.

Both M-B and BMW have large production facilities in the U.S. So, the production of "U.S. specific" vehicles may appear viable...under the condition that...

Are German companies prepared to develop specific cars and engines for the US market, that’s the question.

...the development of which presents an acceptable R.O.I., meaning...

But in the USA people don’t want these highly complicated cars, they want a big V8.

..."old school" comparitively simple ICE tech that need not be significantly, if at all, developed further.

Cheap booze, Bud Lite and stale PBJ sandwiches for the U.S.-American "heartland" automotive picnic.

Of course, will the affluent Pacific west coastal U.S. folks attend ? California is a very significant market.
Many have their own perceptions regarding "good cuisine".

 

[Swissbob]

I guess they could still sell the SUVs in Europe as well but with a different drivetrain.

V6 PHEV or EV in Europe, V8 in the USA.

 

[Design FIRST]

I guess they could still sell the SUVs in Europe as well but with a different drivetrain.

V6 PHEV or EV in Europe, V8 in the USA.

Increasing drivetrain convergence could indeed promote precisely this.

 

[klier]

Eurocrats bumbling about regarding the envisioned EU-Mercosur Trade Accord is a big problem. India's market will become increasingly important.

Aaaah yes. India.

Both M-B and BMW have large production facilities in the U.S.

BMW has the biggest one in the U.S full stop. BMW is also the biggest exporter of cars from the U.S.

 

[fortuner]

Aaaah yes. India.

BMW has the biggest one in the U.S full stop. BMW is also the biggest exporter of cars from the U.S.

Maybe go do a trip to India you will see more Maybach their then probably in Netherlands

 

[Design FIRST]

Aaaah yes. India.

Aaaah yes. ALSO India:

 

[klier]

Aaaah yes. ALSO India:

Yeah and when you look closely you see people shitting in every corner.
India is a borderline failed state.

Maybe go do a trip to India

Not in a million years
Great food though, if you can handle food poisoning, severe cramps and diarrhea for three weeks

 

[Design FIRST]

Yeah and when you look closely you see people shitting in every corner.

Man, one can see this in the immediate vicinity of Hamburg's main rail station. Especially around the ZOB (Zentral Omnibus Bahnhof). The result of a good many years of failed municipal governance.

 

[Speedo1]

Yeah and when you look closely you see people shitting in every corner.
India is a borderline failed state.



Not in a million years
Great food though, if you can handle food poisoning, severe cramps and diarrhea for three weeks

What do you guys think about Pakistan? The car scene is getting quite epic over there. They just received the country's first Lamborghini Reveulto in Viola Pasifae plus the arrival of a slew of Chinese automotive manufacturers disrupting the market.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Yeah and when you look closely you see people shitting in every corner.
India is a borderline failed state.

Having been there not even a month ago, I can tell you that doesn't happen.
It's still a shit hole in many underdeveloped parts don't get me wrong, but your thought process is stuck about 20 years ago.

If you go to any big city, particularly the likes of Mumbai, there are more expensive cars than you'd possibly believe.
There's plenty of rich people around to spend money.

 

[Design FIRST]

There's plenty of rich people around to spend money.

...And...from what I've understood, legions of extremely gifted young people who are on the threshold of rapidly climbing the professional as well as net income ladder.

 

[Matski]

The population of India is nearly 1.5 Billion. It's roughly the case that only the top 2% of the population could afford a C-Class or higher....

That's still about 30 million potential customers, it would not make sense to dismiss it on the basis of what people see on the poor side of the wealth inequality divide.

 

[wagnechris]

Maybe go do a trip to India you will see more Maybach their then probably in Netherlands

Maybach in the Netherlands? How is that supposed to work? The star would bei in Germany and the boot in Belgium. :⁠-⁠)

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

The population of India is nearly 1.5 Billion. It's roughly the case that only the top 2% of the population could afford a C-Class or higher....

That's still about 30 million potential customers, it would not make sense to dismiss it on the basis of what people see on the poor side of the wealth inequality divide.

Exactly.

The Indian Middle class is about 450 million people. Yes most of them can't afford a C class. But that's just for now. In about 20 years they could see a China like trajectory.
At which point not having seeded some kind of brand security/loyalty would be insanity.

Doesn't matter whether 98% of the population could never afford a Benz. When that remaining 2% is almost double the population of the whole of the Netherlands.

 

[klier]

If you go to any big city, particularly the likes of Mumbai, there are more expensive cars than you'd possibly believe.
There's plenty of rich people around to spend money.

No kidding there's money and extremely rich people.
Have you seen the other side with people rotting away in the gutter in broad daylight? This country is utterly sick internally. Baffling people come here to defend it.

...And...from what I've understood, legions of extremely gifted young people who are on the threshold of rapidly climbing the professional as well as net income ladder.

No kidding again when you have 1.5 billion citizens. However these legions are simply dwarfed into oblivion by the people who are held as slaves and have nothing. Or worse than that with their "democratic" caste system.

Doesn't matter whether 98% of the population could never afford a Benz. When that remaining 2% is almost double the population of the whole of the Netherlands.

I get all that and it makes sense to try to sell cars there sure.

I was merely giving my opinion on how I view this country. Not many nice to be said from my POV. They have created a shithole near third world country that doesn't function and should never ever be compared to China in any possible way. They will not be on China's level not even in 200 years.

Check Bald and Bankrupt's YT channel on India. He has several vids. It's simply unreal.

 

[Matski]

I get all that and it makes sense to try to sell cars there sure.

Given the subject of the thread, this is really the only thing that matters.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I was merely giving my opinion on how I view this country. Not many nice to be said from my POV. They have created a shithole near third world country that doesn't function and should never ever be compared to China in any possible way. They will not be on China's level not even in 200 years.

Check Bald and Bankrupt's YT channel on India. He has several vids. It's simply unreal.

That's cool, but respectfully I don't care. And what you think of the country has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Mercedes should be trying to sell their cars there.

 

[Swissbob]

Having been there not even a month ago, I can tell you that doesn't happen.
It's still a shit hole in many underdeveloped parts don't get me wrong, but your thought process is stuck about 20 years ago.

If you go to any big city, particularly the likes of Mumbai, there are more expensive cars than you'd possibly believe.
There's plenty of rich people around to spend money.

And they still love diesel engines.