X5 First drive - X5 E70

[Imhotep Evil]

Yes I know such things.

But Audi has nice/enviable profit margins (tough quite lower than BMW) even if
they're using ASF + comanding lower prices + selling less expensive/high margin cars like A8 & S/RS vs 7er & ///M cars.

And those ASF cars usually come with AWD too (= extra cost), witch for BMW would not be necesary

My guess is, that on production+implementation vs. costs Audi kicks BMW @$$ on the ASF matter.

 

[EnI]

Yes I know such things.

But Audi has nice/enviable profit margins (tough quite lower than BMW) even if
they're using ASF + comanding lower prices + selling less expensive/high margin cars like A8 & S/RS vs 7er & ///M cars.

And those ASF cars usually come with AWD too (= extra cost), witch for BMW would not be necesary

My guess is, that on production+implementation vs. costs Audi kicks BMW @$$ on the ASF matter.

Mind that BMW have no factories in countries with low-cost labour like Audi do (eg. Slovakia, Hungary). Having plants in Eastern Europe lowers the production costs for Audi - and the shared new platform will lower the cost even more.

Yet BMW pruduction has one significant advantage: it is very flexible - enabling BMW to react on market demand very quickly.

You should also know that labour costs in Eastern Europe will rise with time (also due Unions' pressure; socialist goverments winning election & rising taxes). So ...

Also Audi's profit (margin) is also high due not so much exchange rates loss (Euro vs US Dollar) since their sales in US is not as high as the one of MB or BMW. So ...

BMW are not using aluminium, magnesium, CF, composite materials even more extensivelly due financial reasons, not technical ones. Technically they are capable, yet the development budget & production costs should stay in limits.

Audi is using new tech also due their image as technology driven brand (Vorsprung durch Technik!), even sacrifinig higher profit margin for that reason.


Btw, ASF in my text means Aluminium Space Frame!

 

[Michael]

I really have to give it to Enilab this time. I think he is right and I think he makes a good point about Audi and where their factories are and the shared platforms.

 

[EnI]

I really have to give it to Enilab this time. I think he is right and I think he makes a good point about Audi and where their factories are and the shared platforms.

Also do not forget Audi is co-developing many engines with VW within VAG concern. And that eg. Q7 used some development solutions from Touraeg / Cayenne, so development cost were a bit lower due this reason.

Also I'm sure VAG is buying some parts & materials by lower prices from suppliers than BMW AG, since VAG is a much larger customer. And Audi AG benefit from that.

Also: remember A2 with ASF, it was so da*n expensive to produce Audi stopped its production.

ASF and similar lightweight solutions are much more appropriate for top-end luxury models & sport cars.

Btw, BMW will soon start to use special foam for filling extra-thin steel tubes used in body construction. The solution is inexpensive, very light, and brings amazing rigidity to car's body. Much better solution than full alu body. Yet of course in top-end sport cars also alu, magnesium & CF will be used - combined with this special foam: making cars even lighter, yet production will be much more expensive - but due high price the profit margin will stay high.

 

[warot]

Mind that BMW have no factories in countries with low-cost labour like Audi do (eg. Slovakia, Hungary). Having plants in Eastern Europe lowers the production costs for Audi - and the shared new platform will lower the cost even more.

Yet BMW pruduction has one significant advantage: it is very flexible - enabling BMW to react on market demand very quickly.

You should also know that labour costs in Eastern Europe will rise with time (also due Unions' pressure; socialist goverments winning election & rising taxes). So ...

Also Audi's profit (margin) is also high due not so much exchange rates loss (Euro vs US Dollar) since their sales in US is not as high as the one of MB or BMW. So ...

BMW are not using aluminium, magnesium, CF, composite materials even more extensivelly due financial reasons, not technical ones. Technically they are capable, yet the development budget & production costs should stay in limits.

Audi is using new tech also due their image as technology driven brand (Vorsprung durch Technik!), even sacrifinig higher profit margin for that reason.


Btw, ASF in my text means Aluminium Space Frame!

They do have South Africa but that's it. All the other plants outside Germany and the US are only assembly plants.

 

[Deleted member 25]

BMW would need many years to master the technology behind aluminium welding.

Stop dreaming my friend, you think that Audi makes Asf structures alone ? What about the suppliers ?

 

[YoungWarrior]

BMW do make cars in eastern european countries actually, a reason why my mum now no longer will buy one. (Shes german born n bred)

No doubt the X5 will have class leading dynamics till the next gen cayenne is out.
Shame about the X5 looks though, and its chavvy UK customers.

Oh wait I dont think im allowed to say that, the bmw fanboys will get me for that.

 

[EnI]

BMW do make cars in eastern european countries actually

Oh, really. Can you tell me where. A proof will be needed.

My weapon: BOOM!

I really hate BSing.


PS: assembly factories provide vehicles for local markets only, not for export (eg. in UK you can't buy a BMW vehicle from assembly factory in Egipt)!

 

[Yperion]

Audi is only buying the material (aluminium) the rest of the manufacturing process takes place in Neckarsulm plant:

http://www.plantautomation-technology.com/projects/neckarsulm/

 

[EnI]

Audi is only buying the material (aluminium) the rest of the manufacturing process takes place in Neckarsulm plant:

http://www.plantautomation-technology.com/projects/neckarsulm/

So does BMW in Dingolfing plant (with RR Phantom ASF).

 

[YoungWarrior]

Oh, really. Can you tell me where. A proof will be needed.

My weapon: BOOM!

I really hate BSing.


PS: assembly factories provide vehicles for local markets only, not for export (eg. in UK you can't buy a BMW vehicle from assembly factory in Egipt)!

To say Im BSing means that you are insinuating that im deliberately lying

My mum told me BMW did it, and hence didnt want a BMW anymore, maybe the plant hasnt been built, or she ment east germany, I dont know but dont call me a bullshitter.

Once again BMW fanboys getting all uptight and defensive over next to nothing.

 

[Zafiro]

Once again BMW fanboys getting all uptight and defensive over next to nothing.

Dont push it man its with statements like that creating annoynce, insulting and rudeness between members.
You should try to think twice before writing and realize we dont want trouble on this board.

 

[warot]

To say Im BSing means that you are insinuating that im deliberately lying

My mum told me BMW did it, and hence didnt want a BMW anymore, maybe the plant hasnt been built, or she ment east germany, I dont know but dont call me a bullshitter.

Once again BMW fanboys getting all uptight and defensive over next to nothing.

Don't understand what that has to do with anything to be perfectly honest. Yes BMW does have some plant in Eastern Europe but those are only assembly plants.

Lastly, those aren't for the UK markets I believe.

 

[Yperion]

BMW has made a plant in former East Germany recently cause salaries are lower there. Also X5 is made in US. Of course than means nothing. All German companies have plants abroad.

When i said that Audi is at least 3 years ahead of every other competitor in terms of Aluminium technology i said it cause i have read an article from a third party (meaning independent party) saying that. I tried to find the article but couldn't, perhaps i will find it later.

 

[EnI]

To say Im BSing means that you are insinuating that im deliberately lying

My mum told me BMW did it, and hence didnt want a BMW anymore, maybe the plant hasnt been built, or she ment east germany, I dont know but dont call me a bullshitter.

Once again BMW fanboys getting all uptight and defensive over next to nothing.

Oh, c'mon don't be so insulted. I was just angry you didn't provide any data in support of your claim.

Anyway, you have expected such harsh reply.

Oh wait I dont think im allowed to say that, the bmw fanboys will get me for that.

 

[Deleted member 25]

They Used also Aluminium on the Z8.

 

[EnI]

They Used also Aluminium on the Z8.

Yes, they did.

But right now RR Phantom is the only car with ASF. While eg. 5er & 6er use hybrid alu+steel body frame.

 

[klier]

It wouldn't hurt if you read car magazine reviews then you would know that MMI is considered easier to use than iDrive.

Audi Builds A Better iDrive
The automaker's MMI is supremely capable and, more importantly, comprehensible.
Enough has been written about BMW's iDrive to fill a 1,000-page driver's manual. Then again, iDrive owners need a 1,000-page manual to figure out how to use it. Credit Audi for succeeding where the vaunted Bavarian firm failed. After a week driving Audi's new 2004 A8, we can report that the carmaker has created an electronic driver- car interface that is genuinely intuitive.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/automotivetech/21973bcc2eb84010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

And countless other articles.

You truly make me laugh with sources... popsci....pcmag... Next time when you search for articles, please make sure the writer knows how to use a computer...... If anyone in the automotive industry still thinks iDrive is hard to use, he/she has a malfunction in the brain.
Give me a break.

BMW has made a plant in former East Germany recently cause salaries are lower there. Also X5 is made in US. Of course than means nothing. All German companies have plants abroad.

When i said that Audi is at least 3 years ahead of every other competitor in terms of Aluminium technology i said it cause i have read an article from a third party (meaning independent party) saying that. I tried to find the article but couldn't, perhaps i will find it later.

BMW made aluminum cars before Audi even knew the material existed
Z8 anyone?
Or are you trying to say Audi had an alu spaceframe before BMW?

 

[Yperion]

BMW made aluminum cars before Audi even knew the material existed
Z8 anyone?
Or are you trying to say Audi had an alu spaceframe before BMW?

Come on klier , first generation A8 was long before Z8.

Anyway this discussion is pointless.

 

[rightnow]

guys, hahaha you're awsome!