Edmunds Inside Line - Long-Term Test: 2008 Mercedes-Benz C300 Sport

[Merc1]

It's not that Toyotas or Hondas don't go bad, they do, the problem is the cost of fixing those cars. A toyota or a honda is WAY cheaper to get fixed than any german car or even a british car. That is what makes people buy Toyotas and Hondas is the fact that when they do break down, it's not going to cost you an arm and a leg to get fixed. Germans on the other hand, even the cheapo VW cost crazy amounts of money.

My local Audi/VW dealer charges $110 an hour as their labor cost, plust the parts are usually expensive. The local honda dealer charges about $70 an hour, and the parts are pretty cheap. I'm not even going to talk about insurance. So what do you think your average person is going to choose? The brand that costs more to buy and to fix or the brand that is cheap to buy and to fix? I think it's a no brainers.

I'm not defending Toyota or Honda, I'm just saying that there is more to it than "they make bland cars, so I'll take my money elsewhere"; that issue is only for those with the income to afford the more expensive cars.

This is true, but the thing with Mercedes, well at least the ones built during the SHRIMP era is that not only do they cost more to fix, but too many things need fixing. In all the years I've driven Japanese cars I've never had to replace the things I've had to replace/fix on my CLK430. If I hadn't had a good extended warranty I would have been out of my mind now.

Until all the Shremp (sp) era cars are gone there are going to be millions of Mercedes owners that will never go back or at best be real leery about buying another one. I knew the C208 was a problem car, but I was seduced by its beauty so...... Needless to say I won't do another Shremp era Mercedes. Another Mercedes? Sure.


M

 

[VroomVroom]

This is true, but the thing with Mercedes, well at least the ones built during the SHRIMP era is that not only do they cost more to fix, but too many things need fixing. In all the years I've driven Japanese cars I've never had to replace the things I've had to replace/fix on my CLK430. If I hadn't had a good extended warranty I would have been out of my mind now.

Until all the Shremp (sp) era cars are gone there are going to be millions of Mercedes owners that will never go back or at best be real leery about buying another one. I knew the C208 was a problem car, but I was seduced by its beauty so...... Needless to say I won't do another Shremp era Mercedes. Another Mercedes? Sure.


M

When we had our Audi A6 a lot of thing went wrong with it and it was the same story with you, good job we had an extended warranty but when that ran out..The car had to go because we didn't have a clue what would go wrong next. If it had been reliable we would have kept it for longer but we were constantly paranoid about take it long distances. Our other car (Japanese) is twice as old and has only ever needed the clutch replacing.

But as you said you would buy another Mercedes just not one in the "shremp" era, but your a Mercedes enthusiast what about all the others who just buy the car because of the brand? Once they have a car which keeps going wrong...They are not going to go back to that brand they will go buy a Lexus

The sad thing is my father got his first impression of a bad Audi, and got the best impression from his previous 525i.

Looks like our next car will be a BMW

 

[Merc1]

But as you said you would buy another Mercedes just not one in the "shremp" era, but your a Mercedes enthusiast what about all the others who just buy the car because of the brand? Once they have a car which keeps going wrong...They are not going to go back to that brand they will go buy a Lexus

Oh yes that is very true and that group is what made Lexus what they are today. There are thousands upon thousands of former Mercedes owners driving Lexuses and the majority of them will never come back to Mercedes. Some will, but only after Mercedes proves that they've gotten their act together.

I've always stated that Lexus would have never become the best selling luxury brand in the U.S. if Mercedes hadn't dropped the ball in quality from 1998 onwards, which just so happens to be the year that Lexus started to pull ahead. That first generation ML was the key vehicle in this downfall for Mercedes and the resulting rise of Lexus.


M

 

[cawimmer430]

I've always stated that Lexus would have never become the best selling luxury brand in the U.S. if Mercedes hadn't dropped the ball in quality from 1998 onwards, which just so happens to be the year that Lexus started to pull ahead. That first generation ML was the key vehicle in this downfall for Mercedes and the resulting rise of Lexus.


M

It's not only that. Lexus dealerships were treating their customers as if they were lazy bastards. You couldn't even leave the washroom at a Lexus dealership without an employee asking you if he could wipe your ass.

Mercedes dealerships had a reputation for snobbery at that time (thankfully they have improved) and that was also a major blunder for Mercedes and a plus for Lexus. Think about it. Things can go wrong on any car and customers are generally willing to put up with it if the dealerships treat them right (and if the problem (or problems) don't constantly appear and reappear). Lexus have their share of problems but customers can have a good time at the dealership, get a loaner etc. and generally be satisfied.

Also, Lexus sales were helped by a large market of aging but loyal Toyota owners who wanted to upgrade to a more premium vehicle and didn't really find the Camry or Avalon to be fitting. They trusted the Toyota brand, however. So when Lexus was released, these people didn't hesitate to go for them.

 

[Merc1]

It's not only that. Lexus dealerships were treating their customers as if they were lazy bastards. You couldn't even leave the washroom at a Lexus dealership without an employee asking you if he could wipe your ass.

Mercedes dealerships had a reputation for snobbery at that time (thankfully they have improved) and that was also a major blunder for Mercedes and a plus for Lexus. Think about it. Things can go wrong on any car and customers are generally willing to put up with it if the dealerships treat them right (and if the problem (or problems) don't constantly appear and reappear). Lexus have their share of problems but customers can have a good time at the dealership, get a loaner etc. and generally be satisfied.

Also, Lexus sales were helped by a large market of aging but loyal Toyota owners who wanted to upgrade to a more premium vehicle and didn't really find the Camry or Avalon to be fitting. They trusted the Toyota brand, however. So when Lexus was released, these people didn't hesitate to go for them.

Yes this is true, but Mercedes really did build some shoddy cars. No matter how nice the dealer is people still don't want to be there all the time. The first generation ML, my CLK (C208), W210, W203, W220 and some others just weren't right and they've burned so many owners (former owners) to the point where Mercedes will never get most of them back IMO. Dealership or no Mercedes has still got to better and they knew it...witness the W221 and the W204.

I've had some things go wrong with my CLK430 that I've never experienced before in any car and IMO that is unacceptable. That said, and unlike some current and former Mercedes owners I knew that the C208 wasn't the best Mercedes to have, but I still wanted it. Thank goodness for good extended warranty coverage.

Another thing that seperates Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Porsche owners from Lexus owners is tires. A lot of these German cars comes with low-profile, summer/performance tires and rims that simply don't like America's pot-holed strewn roads. Switching to snows and buying new summer tires almost every year (they only last about 12-15K miles) is a pain. This is why I've desired another car to drive in winter and to work...something like a FWD, regular-tired Jetta. Having a Mercedes with AMG equipment is a pay to play affair. Only a few Lexuses have the tire issue. A lot of E, and S-Classes here have the sport package (E) or the AMG package (S) and those tires cost and are useless in snow. Ditto for the CLS, SL, CL anything AMG.

Lets just say I've been throughly educated in what is Mercedes-Benz. I see why someone might have a SL550 and a Camry. I'd have a Passat CC myself..lol.

The insane thing is that once everything is just the way it should be and summer comes and I drop the top.....all of that winter/tire/rim stuff fades away.


M

 

[tennmb]

No, pretty much all the Lexus have that tire issue now.

Almost everyone is using larger, lower profile tires. Even the boring ES has them now.

The big gripe with Benz is using staggered set up tires in the US market. This makes no sense. You lose about 8k-10k miles on your tires, by not being able to rotate. I can't beleive MB has not dropped this practice. What in the world do you need staggered tires for on a C300 and E350??? All this does is frustrate your owners, hit their pocket book, and build resentment.

 

[Merc1]

Really and ES350 has summer/peformance tires now? The LS460 too?

M

 

[NarutoRamen]

Really and ES350 has summer/peformance tires now? The LS460 too?

M

If I'm not mistaken, they do have lower profile tires, but I think they're all season tires, and not summer. But I could be wrong.

 

[cawimmer430]

If I'm not mistaken, they do have lower profile tires...

That's very dangerous for a Lexus customer.

90 year old men tend to get heart-attacks when their Toyota, excuse me, Lexus, rolls over a slight road bump!

 

[Tarek]

^Lol

 

[NarutoRamen]

That's very dangerous for a Lexus customer.

90 year old men tend to get heart-attacks when their Toyota, excuse me, Lexus, rolls over a slight road bump!

that might be the case in europe, but here in the US, besides the GX, LS, and ES, the rest of the Lexus cars are driven by fairly young people, especially the IS.

 

[Sunny]

that might be the case in europe, but here in the US, besides the GX, LS, and ES, the rest of the Lexus cars are driven by fairly young people, especially the IS.

Yea, I would be least surprised if here in the US the average age of the MB drivers is much higher than the average age of the Lexus drivers.

 

[VroomVroom]

that might be the case in europe, but here in the US, besides the GX, LS, and ES, the rest of the Lexus cars are driven by fairly young people, especially the IS.

The is200 is only driven by young people because they can "rice" the hell out of them..

 

[cawimmer430]

Mercedes buyers tend to be older because they have the finances to pay for such a vehicle in the first place. Nothing to be ashamed about, especially since there is a growing trend for wealthy younger people to purchase luxury cars, no matter what brand. Mercedes isn't missing out.

 

[Sunny]

The is200 is only driven by young people because they can "rice" the hell out of them..

Oh come on, are you saying other cars can't be riced. I bet I have seen more S class with 22" chrome dubs than IS. There are lot of thing wrong with Lexus, the biggest one being Toyota being too ashamed of it's own name to call it that, but let us not become autolies please.

 

[NarutoRamen]

Oh come on, are you saying other cars can't be riced. I bet I have seen more S class with 22" chrome dubs than IS. There are lot of thing wrong with Lexus, the biggest one being Toyota being too ashamed of it's own name to call it that, but let us not become autolies please.

Ain't that the truth. There is a ghastly S500 around my neighborhood. It's custom colored with a weird pink/maroon combo with 22" chromes. Also, there is a this really hot east-asian chick, probably in her mid 20s, with an IS350.

 

[PHYBENZ]

Yea, I would be least surprised if here in the US the average age of the MB drivers is much higher than the average age of the Lexus drivers.

NO WAY! I am willing to bet that the average Lexus buyer is older than the average MB buyer in the US.

 

[Sunny]

NO WAY! I am willing to bet that the average Lexus buyer is older than the average MB buyer in the US.

Car choice and age - Press Releases | TESCO Compare.

Avg age of MB drivers: 43, avg age of Lexus drivers: 41. Only RR (at 53) and Jaguar (at 47) is more than MB. And this is not just the US. I bet it is even worse if you just consider the US, since MB doesn't offer smaller cars like A and B class or even cheaper models of C class here which tend to have younger buyers.

Again there is noting wrong with having an older (and richer) clientele, but then don't turn around and say, 'Ha, only grandpas drive lexus, lol'.

 

[Merc1]

The last survey I saw about U.S. owners put Lexus owners as being younger by about 2-3 years, but at the time I was arguing with some Lexus lovers on Edmunds so our argument was about the S-Class vs the LS. Comparing those 2 models the Lexus LS average buyer was older.

From what I remember the youngest luxury car buyers were buying Land Rovers, Infinitis and BMWs in that order.

The old folks buy Lexus LS, SC and ES. Young ones buy the IS, RX and GS. So it kinda balances their overall age out to be younger than Mercedes, but then again look at the money Mercedes is charging for their cars....some of them are way past anything Lexus could ever hope to sell. So in other words, older people with more money buy Mercedes. Nothing wrong with that IMO. Mercedes' demographic isn't as old as Rolls, Lincoln, Buick etc....most of which are in their late 60's or early 70's in the U.S.


M

 

[NarutoRamen]

The old folks buy Lexus LS, SC and ES. Young ones buy the IS, RX and GS.

M

That's exactly what I said a few posts or a page ago. Thanks for the back up. LOL