X1 BMW X1 Tops Audi Q5 As Top Selling Premium SUV In Europe

[Human]

What's a Sorento? What the car is or can do is irrelevant to an X1 buyer. The X1 is priced like a 3er is therefore within reach of hundreds of thousands who cannot afford a proper BMW SUV, the X5. Although the materials doesn't rank as world class, they are decent and frankly the design is quite eye catchy and better so than the exterior of the X3.

Exactly Centurion Especially for the 1st time BMW buyer, the X1 will drive and feel premium. For me who knows better and having owned numerous BMW's from E46's, E53 and the X6's it is a totally different story

This is a KIA Sorento. Build quality is solid and the car comes loaded with extras.
It does drive like a typical SUV (nothing to get excited about in the handling department) Nice diesel engine 147KW & 420nm. And a R150 000 less than my wife's X1 23d. It's not a premium product and not marketed as a premium product. The hindsight is that the X1 does not feel ANY more special nor any more premium or better build than the Korean. What worry's me as that when people/buyers come to realize this going forward the word Premium will no longer apply to some BMW product offerings

AND you get a motor service plan 5 year 100 000km + 10 year warranty with the KIA.

 

[Centurion]

This is nothing new. When luxury brands create new products designed to charm the middle and lower middle-class, compromises are made. The A-Class and 1er are grand examples of premium cars that are inagurably not much better than comprable cars from VW, Honda, KIA and similar brands.

 

[Human]

This is nothing new. When luxury brands create new products designed to charm the middle and lower middle-class, compromises are made. The A-Class and 1er are grand examples of premium cars that are inagurably not much better than comprable cars from VW, Honda, KIA and similar brands.

AMEN!

(Just made me think, when it comes to perceived quality what is the difference between a Audi A4 and Passat sedan & CC ..noting IMO)

 

[footie]

This is nothing new. When luxury brands create new products designed to charm the middle and lower middle-class, compromises are made. The A-Class and 1er are grand examples of premium cars that are inagurably not much better than comprable cars from VW, Honda, KIA and similar brands.

I think this is the reason why VW do so well, the perspection is because they compete against the Fords and Opals of this world their build and material quality should be of their standard but in fact it's much higher than that and gives a real premium feel. This is happening more and more with lesser brands, to the point where low end premium products are starting to look expensive for what you get, exactly as Human is feeling about his X1.

I personally feel some premier brands need to be looking over their shoulder with regards to quality.

 

[Human]

I think this is the reason why VW do so well, the perspection is because they compete against the Fords and Opals of this world their build and material quality should be of their standard but in fact it's much higher than that and gives a real premium feel. This is happening more and more with lesser brands, to the point where low end premium products are starting to look expensive for what you get, exactly as Human is feeling about his X1.

I personally feel some premier brands need to be looking over their shoulder with regards to quality.

You have nailed it footie! With Korean brands picking up quality overall whilst still offering real value for money premium brands will have to look over their shoulders. I think Audi was first to impress, first time Audi buyers with interior quality and finish with the A1. Then again sister brand VW's offerings are of such high perceived quality I think Audi did not have a choice...now BMW has to follow suit.

 

[footie]

You have nailed it footie! With Korean brands picking up quality overall whilst still offering real value for money premium brands will have to look over their shoulders. I think Audi was first to impress, first time Audi buyers with interior quality and finish with the A1. Then again sister brand VW's offerings are of such high perceived quality I think Audi did not have a choice...now BMW has to follow suit.

I didn't want to be first to bring up the A1 but you are right, Audi are the only brand I can think of which give their low end products a genuine quality feel, not only in their switchgear but of the materials used. BMW and Merc need to up their game.

 

[klier]

This is a KIA Sorento. Build quality is solid and the car comes loaded with extras.

Stop with the Hyundai/Kia nonsense please. Those cars can only wish they drove like a Bimmer. No matter looks, build quality or whatever. X1 2.8i is simply unmatched in it's segment period. Same counts for the 23d.

 

[Human]

Stop with the Hyundai/Kia nonsense please. Those cars can only wish they drove like a Bimmer. No matter looks, build quality or whatever. X1 2.8i is simply unmatched in it's segment period. Same counts for the 23d.

Good news!

I will be honest, the X1's are expensive. Actually VERY expensive if you compare value to that of the F10 5er. The X1 does NOT feel premium at all. Believe you me the X1's seat base are flat, hard plastics and 'under premium standard' materials is cumbersome
I know BMW AND what a BMW feels like.

Also: 1) Car feels 'hollow'
2) BMW has to ask their money back from Rieter Automotive Systems that supplies "Rieter Ultra Silent" material for keeping outside noise at bay. It does not work OR they do not use enough of it.
3) Compared to a KIA Sorento the X1 is a rip-off, X1 does not feel 'special' compared to the Korean....well I have paid and signed...my mistake.

ARE BMW AG LISTENING!!!??? IF you want to brand a product premium - produce, manufacture and deliver premium.

Unfortunately in the X1's case Jeremy Clarkson's words are true. Quote: "You can put a BMW badge on a dead cat and it will sell".


BMW AG's bargain of the century (taking PREMIUM materials and craftsmanship + kit into account) is the F10 5er....best in class quality @ bargain prices! (My X1 23d @ R550 000 / 523i Exclusive pack @ R490 000)

The drive and engine of the X1 is 'real premium BMW'

^
As I said klier

The rest is also ALL true, sad but true my friend. To pick up on what you have said: Let's leave the Koreans out of this. Compared to a F10 5er 523i my X1 23d is a total rip-off.

 

[martinbo]

C'mon klier. It's not nonsense, in fact it's a fundamental example - based on a real-life customer's experience - of perceived value. The interesting thing here is that a loyal BMW customer does not perceive value in his premium compact BMW SUV. Virtues that were expected based on years of experience are missing and whether the customer has a realistic or unrealistic expectation is irrelevant because the overarching BMW message doesn't change.

A KIA Sorento can't hope to handle like an X1 but then it does have tons of kit, has seven seats and a mind-blowingly good warranty! 10 years! Now that's what I call a value proposition. The Sorento's only drawback in South Africa is the limited availability of 50 ppm grade diesel. So it's strictly to be refuelled along mainstream routes only.

People are entitled to question the value-for-money of any product they have or intend to purchase. One of the reasons I love an M3 is that, at R 800-odd grand here in SA it still represents one of the bangest-for-buck buys in the sporting car market. Something that it continues to do since the E36 M3. Some BMWs however, don't seem to offer the same level of value, clearly.

 

[klier]

I agree that the quality of the materials is quite crappy for a BMW, but a car is not the sum of it's parts. The X1 has qualities that make up for some others... But it's sad to see hard hollow plastics in a BMW. I thought the current 1er would be the last one with that..

 

[Giannis]

I agree that the quality of the materials is quite crappy for a BMW, but a car is not the sum of it's parts. The X1 has qualities that make up for some others... But it's sad to see hard hollow plastics in a BMW. I thought the current 1er would be the last one with that..

klier, even though I agree with Martin, I see that you also have a good point.

The X1 has qualities that make up for some others. It's true that every car out there has strong and weak points, and in the case of the X1, hard plastics is the weak point, while looks, driving dynamics, engines are some of the strong points.

But what you can never changes, is what weak each individual can overlook and what not.

Some people can overlook the equipment or the interior plastics when the driving dynamics and the engine are superb, while people who look at the car as a package, cannot overlook the level of equipment or the softness of the plastics, while they could be satisfied with a less powerfull engine, or a softer driving feel.

The hard plastics are a fact. And the other points that Human notes are facts. But how each individual considers these facts is not a fact.

For example, for me the X1 is almost the perfect car. If the plastics were a little better and the standard equipment was a bit better than that of a Huyndai i30 I would already have bought one. And maybe a diesel one. It's the perfect car for my family. But I consider the interior quality and the level of equipment quite sugnificant while shopping for a car.

As for the KIA Sorento, or other cars that are considered value-for-money, they are seen as packages. Not individual attributes. For what you pay for a Sorento you get descent engines, a good looking but average quality interior, a more than full list of equipment. It may not drive as good as an X1 or X3, it may not have as soft plastics as a 3er, it may not have the engine characteristics of a BMW I6 engine, but for what you pay, it's good enough. If you want premium, you pay more than what you should.

 

[Human]

klier, even though I agree with Martin, I see that you also have a good point.

The X1 has qualities that make up for some others. It's true that every car out there has strong and weak points, and in the case of the X1, hard plastics is the weak point, while looks, driving dynamics, engines are some of the strong points.

But what you can never changes, is what weak each individual can overlook and what not.

Some people can overlook the equipment or the interior plastics when the driving dynamics and the engine are superb, while people who look at the car as a package, cannot overlook the level of equipment or the softness of the plastics, while they could be satisfied with a less powerfull engine, or a softer driving feel.

The hard plastics are a fact. And the other points that Human notes are facts. But how each individual considers these facts is not a fact.

For example, for me the X1 is almost the perfect car. If the plastics were a little better and the standard equipment was a bit better than that of a Huyndai i30 I would already have bought one. And maybe a diesel one. It's the perfect car for my family. But I consider the interior quality and the level of equipment quite sugnificant while shopping for a car.

As for the KIA Sorento, or other cars that are considered value-for-money, they are seen as packages. Not individual attributes. For what you pay for a Sorento you get descent engines, a good looking but average quality interior, a more than full list of equipment. It may not drive as good as an X1 or X3, it may not have as soft plastics as a 3er, it may not have the engine characteristics of a BMW I6 engine, but for what you pay, it's good enough. If you want premium, you pay more than what you should.

A very good perspective indeed, thanks Giannis

IMO and in footie's view/opinion - some Premium manufacturers i.e. BMW and Mercedes-Benz must keep in mind that first impressions last. Thus they have to keep in mind that their entry level offerings i.e. 1er, X1, A-class and B-class has to reflect their Premium image. I don't want a center stack covered in leather as in the F10, but hard plastics under eye level is sub premium. And if BMW want's to sell sub premium it's fine...they will just have to drop their asking price and % GP on those individual models to be fair in they way they do business.

I saw the 523i F10 and it's asking price after my purchase of the X1....sad day when you see ALL leather and the BEST IN CLASS materials (F10 wins hands down to the E-class & A6) and that 5er costs less that my X1... Exclusive package, 8-speed gearbox and all

 

[footie]

klier, even though I agree with Martin, I see that you also have a good point.

The X1 has qualities that make up for some others. It's true that every car out there has strong and weak points, and in the case of the X1, hard plastics is the weak point, while looks, driving dynamics, engines are some of the strong points.

But what you can never changes, is what weak each individual can overlook and what not.

Some people can overlook the equipment or the interior plastics when the driving dynamics and the engine are superb, while people who look at the car as a package, cannot overlook the level of equipment or the softness of the plastics, while they could be satisfied with a less powerfull engine, or a softer driving feel.

The hard plastics are a fact. And the other points that Human notes are facts. But how each individual considers these facts is not a fact.

For example, for me the X1 is almost the perfect car. If the plastics were a little better and the standard equipment was a bit better than that of a Huyndai i30 I would already have bought one. And maybe a diesel one. It's the perfect car for my family. But I consider the interior quality and the level of equipment quite sugnificant while shopping for a car.

As for the KIA Sorento, or other cars that are considered value-for-money, they are seen as packages. Not individual attributes. For what you pay for a Sorento you get descent engines, a good looking but average quality interior, a more than full list of equipment. It may not drive as good as an X1 or X3, it may not have as soft plastics as a 3er, it may not have the engine characteristics of a BMW I6 engine, but for what you pay, it's good enough. If you want premium, you pay more than what you should.

I think the point Human and I are making is that though their is little doubt the dynamics and engine are still first rate in the X1, after you have marvelled at these things for a few weeks and you start to 'live' with it then you start to notice it's failings which start to annoy when you think how much the bloody thing costs.

Now while Human is complaining about the X1 I think this argument can be addressed at a few so called premier brands. One which spring to mind was the last Cayenne, an up-market price with a low rent interior, thank god they have seen fit to fix this with the latest version.

 

[Zafiro]

Exactly Centurion Especially for the 1st time BMW buyer, the X1 will drive and feel premium.

My father is thinking of replacing my mother 1-series with a X1. My family driven BMW since 1994 so they are not first time buyers.

My mum think they car is too large and expensive though What do you feel?

 

[Human]

My father is thinking of replacing my mother 1-series with a X1. My family driven BMW since 1994 so they are not first time buyers.

My mum think they car is too large and expensive though What do you feel?

Going from a 1 Series to a X1 is a definite 'upgrade'. Where materials are concerned they are on par.

I may not have mentioned this yesterday, fact is that the model and extras makes a HUGE difference. My X1 23d came FULL HOUSE (R129 000 worth of extras) that is the price of a KIA Picanto. A basic 20d S-Drive X1 comes in at a price below any offering from other premium brand offerings.

The X1 is all but large nor bulky. The car is nimble, easy to drive and park (get PDC front & rear) although large side mirrors and good all round visibility is great. The long/elongated bonnet can be intimidating for female drivers at first but you get used to it soon.

Honestly, the X1 is a great and practical car. It does what it was designed to do. A SLIGHTLY raised driving/sitting/commanding position with good visibility, storage space for everything, a practical boot and loading, adequate ground clearance and the ride quality is excellent 'soft' by BMW standards.
IMO the X1 looks GREAT! Unisex car that will age VERY well indeed

As I said the drive train and drive and handling is 100% pure BMW!

Hindsight in terms of value for money - If the buyer wants my car (X1 23d or X1 28i Full house) I'd rather suggest a F10 5er, 335i sedan or wait for the new X3

 

[footie]

Going from a 1 Series to a X1 is a definite 'upgrade'. Where materials are concerned they are on par.

Couldn't agree more, the perception is you are 'upgrading', even though the actual quality of the materials remain for the most part the same. This is why I believe the F25 X3 will be a very good indicator of the quality of materials in the F30 3er.

The X1 is all but large nor bulky. The car is nimble, easy to drive and park (get PDC front & rear) although large side mirrors and good all round visibility is great. The long/elongated bonnet can be intimidating for female drivers at first but you get used to it soon.

Honestly, the X1 is a great and practical car. It does what it was designed to do. A SLIGHTLY raised driving/sitting/commanding position with good visibility, storage space for everything, a practical boot and loading, adequate ground clearance and the ride quality is excellent 'soft' by BMW standards.

I must agree on almost everything, especially so from the driver's seat, but have you experienced the ride from the rear, I found it a bit jarring and bouncy which reminded me as if the front and rear suspensions weren't quite working in unison. This might have been the surface I was on but I would love to hear from an owner's perspective.

Hindsight in terms of value for money - If the buyer wants my car (X1 23d or X1 28i Full house) I'd rather suggest a F10 5er, 335i sedan or wait for the new X3

The problem is that you are paying a premium for three things over a normal saloon car price, 1 is the raised seating position, 2 is the AWD drivetrain and finally there is the estate ability. When all these are taken into account these small SUVs aren't quite as over priced as you think.

Of course there is always negatives like poorer handling, less economical, sluggish acceleration and lower topspeed but these are generally outweighed by the positives, especially the commanding driving position.

 

[Zafiro]

When I drove a X1 , I felt the brakes was no good. Not much feel and it took like forever before the car stopped. Going directly to my babybimmer I felt a major difference. The brakes gave me absolute confidence again.

Was the X1 I drove in bad shape or are the brakes no good?


PS This Saturday I might drive a X6 ACTIVE HYBRID. Going to be intresting with a Hybrid.

 

[Human]

When I drove a X1 , I felt the brakes was no good. Not much feel and it took like forever before the car stopped. Going directly to my babybimmer I felt a major difference. The brakes gave me absolute confidence again.

Was the X1 I drove in bad shape or are the brakes no good?


PS This Saturday I might drive a X6 ACTIVE HYBRID. Going to be intresting with a Hybrid.

Brakes on my X1 is superb, that X1 you drove neats some attention from the BMW dealers service dept.

Lucky you! Please do report on your 'Hybrid drive' would definitely be interesting

 

[Human]

Couldn't agree more, the perception is you are 'upgrading', even though the actual quality of the materials remain for the most part the same. This is why I believe the F25 X3 will be a very good indicator of the quality of materials in the F30 3er.

I must agree on almost everything, especially so from the driver's seat, but have you experienced the ride from the rear, I found it a bit jarring and bouncy which reminded me as if the front and rear suspensions weren't quite working in unison. This might have been the surface I was on but I would love to hear from an owner's perspective.

I have not experienced a ride in the back yet, will report on that one

The problem is that you are paying a premium for three things over a normal saloon car price, 1 is the raised seating position, 2 is the AWD drivetrain and finally there is the estate ability. When all these are taken into account these small SUVs aren't quite as over priced as you think.

Of course there is always negatives like poorer handling,less economical, sluggish acceleration and lower topspeed but these are generally outweighed by the positives, especially the commanding driving position.

And in the areas you mentioned the X1 excels, good and typical BMW sharp and direct steering and handling. The 23d Variable twin turbo is a jewel of an engine! 400nm / 150kw and man it only sips small amounts of diesel. The fact that the KW & Torque is available practically form idle makes the X1 a true driving pleasure without turbo-lag 0-100 7.3 sec, top speed is 223km/h and that comes fast!
I am used to V8 TT power with the love of my life X6...so the fact that the X1 impresses me in the power / handling / driving stakes says alot

 

[footie]

Those negatives were relative to an equivalent saloon with the same engine, i.e. 123d vs X1 23d. But for what it is the X1 does all these things better than most.