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[SDNR]

Sadly for Maybach, I think they may have left the launch of a production Excelero a little too long -- the world has moved on since it was first shown two years ago -- since then we have seen numerous other exiting new vehicles. I think Maybach need to get their act together and produce a Flying Spur competitor -- even if it does cut into S600/S65 sales, they need to lift the profile (and viability) of the Maybach brand.

 

[Centurion]

Sadly for Maybach, I think they may have left the launch of a production Excelero a little too long -- the world has moved on since it was first shown two years ago -- since then we have seen numerous other exiting new vehicles. I think Maybach need to get their act together and produce a Flying Spur competitor -- even if it does cut into S600/S65 sales, they need to lift the profile (and viability) of the Maybach brand.

A sedan/4 door coupe/what ever with a 200k asking price would be perfect. there are barely any cars in that spectrum and the car would not leech customer from the S600.

 

[Merc1]

Yeah it is just a matter of time before the 225K Arnage gets some competitors. Maybach and Rolls need to attack that segment head-on. The Arnage is a glorious old girl, but she is old and outdated when it comes to these newer German-engineered masterpieces. What I'm really waiting to see is what Bentley does with her.

Maybach has got come up with a look that is different, yet beautiful...hard to do when the last models weren't anything special and the last real Maybachs were 70 years ago. I wouldn't want to be in charge at Maybach, must be a stressful job when you simply don't know how to save a sinking ship. Hire back Brunno Saco and let him design one I say.

M

 

[Pagani]

No new sources, just that magazine in one of the major British car magazines which has be recycled into Automobile. The article came with spy pics of the MM62 in camouflage.

 

[Brendan Moore]

Yeah it is just a matter of time before the 225K Arnage gets some competitors. Maybach and Rolls need to attack that segment head-on. The Arnage is a glorious old girl, but she is old and outdated when it comes to these newer German-engineered masterpieces. What I'm really waiting to see is what Bentley does with her.

Maybach has got come up with a look that is different, yet beautiful...hard to do when the last models weren't anything special and the last real Maybachs were 70 years ago. I wouldn't want to be in charge at Maybach, must be a stressful job when you simply don't know how to save a sinking ship. Hire back Brunno Saco and let him design one I say.

M

I agree with your statement regarding the high degree of difficulty in coming up with a look that is both different and beautiful at the same time. Actually, it's even more difficult than that - the Maybach is so expensive and the styling, the presence, the materials, etc. all must reflect this reality as well.

So, a Maybach needs to look:

Different
Wonderful
Expensive

That's a tough design brief for a saloon these days. Maybe they just need to pick a designer's vision for the brand and simply roll the dice. Can it be worse than the results so far?

 

[Merc1]

If they do that, I say Brunno Saco is the man. Either him or some Italian design house. Anyone, but the folks who draw "regular" Mercedes.

M

 

[Brendan Moore]

If they do that, I say Brunno Saco is the man. Either him or some Italian design house. Anyone, but the folks who draw "regular" Mercedes.

M

You know, I think you have something there. Either choice would be a bold one and perhaps just the medicine the sick patient needs.

 

[Merc1]

Yep. They've got think outside the box this time around. A look-a-like Benz that cost 2-3 times the price of an S-Class isnt' gonna cut it! I hope they realize this.

M

 

[Brendan Moore]

I think it would be VERY interesting to see what one of the Italian design houses could do with a car that massive. That's a lot sheetmetal to play with and a lot of interior space. Kind of like asking them to do a Cadillac Escalade, you know?

 

[SDNR]

Yeah it is just a matter of time before the 225K Arnage gets some competitors. Maybach and Rolls need to attack that segment head-on. The Arnage is a glorious old girl, but she is old and outdated when it comes to these newer German-engineered masterpieces. What I'm really waiting to see is what Bentley does with her.

It precisely this market segment where the new Rolls-Royce model will compete.

Maybach has got come up with a look that is different, yet beautiful...hard to do when the last models weren't anything special and the last real Maybachs were 70 years ago. I wouldn't want to be in charge at Maybach, must be a stressful job when you simply don't know how to save a sinking ship. Hire back Brunno Saco and let him design one I say.

M

Unfortunately, I am not so optimistic. Mercedes design standards have fallen since Sacco left. The ODC is not an ugly concept, but it will date very quickly --Mercedes design has become chaotic and unprincipled. They have tried too hard to keep up with BMW's bold styling ....but the difference is BMW's design has purpose and clear intentions -- with Mercedes, it is not much more than superficial styling.

Sacco was not a stylist, he was a designer. Every design was conceived with a clear intention which adhered to traditional Modern design ideology -- the iconic aspects of Sacco's designs were not merely there for cosmetic reasons, they were the result of deliberate intentions and strict principles.

Of course, I recognize that Mercedes has to keep up with changing trends, but that does not require them to deny their design heritage and principles in favour of insincere, pretentious, purely eye-catching styling.

Mercedes continues to use elements of past designs ...but they are used without the traditional Mercedes design principles. This might not be completely obvious to everyone, but it does result in the current designs lacking authenticity IMO.

 

[Merc1]

I agree with that Rob, to me I'd say that the newer cars aren't as timeless as the older ones. They're what I'd call "prettier", but not as "handsome" as before. I realized this a few days ago looking a new CL550 sitting next to a W124 300CE.

On Maybach though I can't see how they could continue down the same path when all their efforts so far has been an utter failure. I would pay money to see what they have on the drawing boards as far as design proposals!

M

 

[SDNR]

Hello Marcus,

I think you are right, the recent Mercs do have some good-looking aspects about them -- I know how much you like the CLS for instance.

I would be very curious to know what Sacco thought about what has been produced since he left. The funny thing is, Audi seems to be more in tune with the traditional Mercedes ethos than anybody else these days.

 

[Merc1]

Hello Marcus,

I think you are right, the recent Mercs do have some good-looking aspects about them -- I know how much you like the CLS for instance.

I would be very curious to know what Sacco thought about what has been produced since he left. The funny thing is, Audi seems to be more in tune with the traditional Mercedes ethos than anybody else these days.

Yeah I too have wondered that. Even in a recent interview (CAR Magazine I think) they didn't ask him what he thought of the new designs. I would really love to know what he thinks of the the S, CLS and CL. I can't imagine him finding fault with the SL though.

M

 

[Pagani]

I doubt that he will have anything to say against the interior of the Maybach as well. Was it not his daughter that designed it?

 

[Mr. M]

Hello Marcus,

I think you are right, the recent Mercs do have some good-looking aspects about them -- I know how much you like the CLS for instance.

I would be very curious to know what Sacco thought about what has been produced since he left. The funny thing is, Audi seems to be more in tune with the traditional Mercedes ethos than anybody else these days.

The thing is, is the traditional Mercedes ethos that important to keep? Sure, people like you and me would appreciate it if they designed Benzes like they used to, but to the larger set of population, Mercedes has done just what other automakers have done: progression. And I bet a large majority of potential buyers wouldn't even be able to tell if the ODC lost its integrity or not. It still looks like a Benz and that's all it matters to the common man.

 

[SDNR]

It does matter James. Mercedes was a brand with integrity. That integrity was closely tied to the principles which were at the heart of German product design for 100 years. Mercedes should not just become another follower of passing fads ...they should always remain true to their roots. Sacco was Mercedes first true in-house designer. But Sacco always remained true to the pragmatism of the Mercedes-Benz brand -- Mercedes seldom adopted short-term trends in its design or engineering in the past (the Heckflosse models of the 1960s are a rare exception). The designs of Mercedes cars were conceived for the same longevity as the engineering and build quality the marque is so famous for. I hate to see this being compromised -- I fear we are witnessing a "dumbing-down" of Mercedes design.

 

[Mr. M]

It does matter James. Mercedes was a brand with integrity. That integrity was closely tied to the principles which were at the heart of German product design for 100 years. Mercedes should not just become another follower of passing fads ...they should always remain true to their roots. Sacco was Mercedes first true in-house designer. But Sacco always remained true to the pragmatism of the Mercedes-Benz brand -- Mercedes seldom adopted short-term trends in its design or engineering in the past (the Heckflosse models of the 1960s are a rare exception). The designs of Mercedes cars were conceived for the same longevity as the engineering and build quality the marque is so famous for. I hate to see this being compromised -- I fear we are witnessing a "dumbing-down" of Mercedes design.

I understand very well what you mean Rob... But harsh reality is, apart from you, me and others on GCF very few people would care whether Mercedes follows fads or keeps to its strict design rules or not.