Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari


:rolleyes:
Avoid writing junk more than those written in recent months. Each car forum is full of your junk.
The tolerance of toe, camber king pin and caster are in minutes of degree. You are completely dunce on the subject. Angles don't change with weather at least you should measured at given standard (try on Wikipedia you may understand what I mean). I tracked my lotus per years and need a re-alignement just one time due to a close encounter with a pothole but on a open road.
And Sport Auto do all the measurement at the beginning of the test, 650s supertest included (search on the forum) and Porsche have no problems with alignment.
Yes and a car that's constantly being tracked, and hitting kerbs on the 'ring is basically hitting pot holes all day long.

SA.webp

Huge pinch of salt what ?
Huge tolerance range. Basically Sport Auto are known for their dubiously quick 911 times relative to other cars and other magazines. E.g. GT2 RS as fast as Gumpert Apollo S on 'ring.

If geometry stays accurate for so long, why aren't all cars smack bang in the centre of the tolerance range? In fact, why do they even have a tolerance range?

You are the one the spammed internet sayings the 918 Spyder has better tires in comparison to the P1 basing in the 60mph-0 braking test done in TOP GEAR castelloli circuit.
Braking test is only mechanical grip you wrote, Just to defend a débâcle.
In the same test You justify P1 better peak of lateral G (2,15g vs 1,87g) because of P1 downforce rising tire grip at high speed, when castelloli has no high speed bend at all (140-150 Kmh)
Now you're just spamming crap. Castelloli actually does have a higher speed bend going into a sharper turn to the right, see 1:43.

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This however may not be the corner, it may be a braking g from high speed, where aero braking would play a part. The telemetry from Laguna Seca does not show increased mechanical grip for the Trofeo R.

Your biased reasoning fall completely when verifying 100mph-0 braking test where the huge downforce of the P1 (...lol :rolleyes:) should raise grip and improve braking perfomance, instead the gap with the Porsche 918 increase to more than five meters.
You negate that the 918 spyder and the GT3 have the same N0 spec of the PSC2 because CH demonstrate how the trofeo R improve lap time comparing to the bespoke michelin, forgetting how the 918 spyder is advanced for weight distribuition, suspension and powertrain.
Several problems with that test:

1) Off the shelf tyres, not bespoke 918 and P1 tyres.

2) Pirelli sponsored event, not really independent.

3) Laps done on separate days. Time of day, track temperature, ambient temperature?

4) We don't actually see either of the two MPSC2 hot laps in CH's COTY run, but we do see the hot laps for every other car. Now it's interesting that some people are skeptical when McLaren doesn't release a lap video, but when someone else omits the fundamental basis behind a test result, no one questions it. Even the TR laps in that video are badly edited, so it's not really good journalism.

5) The GT3's MPSC2 time is just poor frankly. You wouldn't expect it to be 4s down on a 458S, you'd expect nearer 2s. So when the TR hot lap ends up where most estimates would have put the MPSC2 lap in the first place, it's not very convincing

In TOP GEAR test, The P1 lateral G an braking test results are by far better than those of the 650S wearing both the same bespoke Pzero corsa MC1
Same day test. Temperatures etc.? What speed from?

As you see above and below your credibility is zero.
Not really.

MPSC2 on 458, colder temperature, beats Trofeo R on Huracan tested 12degC higher. PZCS languishing way behind.

ed41dee6c81611762b80029a650f8e8f.webp
 
Pirelli did not develop any bespoke version of the TROFEO R for the P1.
The Trofero R is not an option for P1.
McLaren simply came back in Anglesey fitting on the P1 something that anyone can find at tire dealer. No MC/MC1 marking

They used the 305/30 with load index 103Y instead of the 315/30 (101Y) that is indicated on the registration document
Yes, so with the bespoke tyres, it will likely go even faster.

Please link the actual post that confirms it please.

1) They have used a tires that IS NOT an OEM option for the P1
2) The car cannot be used on open road unless ask for homolgation to road traffic office.
Complete rubbish. Treynor drives it too and from the track.

Any other comment ? Lol
At this point anyone can use an Hoosier R6 in the correct size and tire load
McLaren = Clowns
Yes, so why didn't they. I think that proves my point not yours.

All this to cover up the fact that:

1. Ferrari refuse to let their car be tested.

2. Ferrari refuse to let customers cars be tested.

3. McLaren has let their car be tested.

4. McLaren has let a customer car be tested.

5. McLaren is alone in this regards amongst the 3.

Who are the real clowns again?
 
Pirelli did not develop any bespoke version of the TROFEO R for the P1.
The Trofero R is not an option for P1.
McLaren simply came back in Anglesey fitting on the P1 something that anyone can find at tire dealer. No MC/MC1 marking

Pzero.webp


They used the 305/30 with load index 103Y instead of the 315/30 (101Y) that is indicated on the registration document
Confirmed in McLaren forum .... Surprise no P1 bespoke tires.
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/22577-trofeo-r-correct-sizing.html
size.webp


1) They have used a tires that IS NOT an OEM option for the P1
2) The car cannot be used on open road unless ask for homolgation to road traffic office.

Any other comment ? Lol
At this point anyone can use an Hoosier R6 in the correct size and tire load
McLaren = Clowns
Wow,
you just dusted the only Emu's island - Anglesey test... :)
Good find!
 
Wow,
you just dusted the only Emu's island - Anglesey test... :)
Good find!
No he didn't. Motor Trend even mention that Trofeo Rs are an option at 51:08.

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Typical Porsche cry baby mentality. We lost so they cheated, same every time. At least P1 folk didn't claim the factory 918 cheated in the LS test. Man up people, man up.

Ferrari refuses test.

Porsche cry cheat whenever they lose.

Ferrari cheat whenever they take part, hence no customer cars to be tested.

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/ferrari/236758-chris-harris-ferrari-cheats.html

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McLaren allows customer cars to be tested, but they're still cheats because Porsche can never lose.:ROFLMAO:

Win on a track with three 40mph corners with AWD and then say that it proves McLaren cheated in the other test. Use a P1 time from a damp track test persistently as proof.:ROFLMAO:
 
No he didn't. Motor Trend even mention that Trofeo Rs are an option at 51:08.

Typical Porsche cry baby mentality. We lost so they cheated, same every time. At least P1 folk didn't claim the factory 918 cheated in the LS test. Man up people, man up.

We only say one thing - MCLaren used in EVO's test tires, which aren't homologated for this vehicle due to different size. Hoho
 
We only say one thing - MCLaren used in EVO's test tires, which aren't homologated for this vehicle due to different size. Hoho
Yes, so if they used the homologated ones in the right size, it'd be faster. See the video above.
 
The homologated ones are the Corsas... Which you said million of times, aren't comparable to MPSC2.
SO, WHAT IS YOUR FINAL STATEMENT ON THIS TOPIC? LOL

trofeo or Corsa?
Bespoke or not bespoke?
305 or 315?

But, please lets your final assumption stays consistent for at least 24 hours, this time... :LOL:
 
The homologated ones are the Corsas... Which you said million of times, aren't comparable to MPSC2.
SO, WHAT IS YOUR FINAL STATEMENT ON THIS TOPIC? LOL

trofeo or Corsa?
Bespoke or not bespoke?
305 or 315?

But, please lets your final assumption stays consistent for at least 24 hours, this time... :LOL:
Watch the video I posted above at 51:08. Both tyres are bespoke, just as the MPSC2s on the 918 are unique.

PZCS is definitely not as fast as MPSC2 or MPSC+ and we know from another tyres test that MPSC2s are 2.4s quicker than MPSC+ on a 2 minute lap.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pilot-Sport-Cup-2-Launched.htm

So if Trofeo Rs are only 1.4s faster than PZCS on a 1:12 lap, then that calls into question CH's test. It might actually have been a little more convincing if he'd ran 2s slower than the 458S on MPSC2s and then equalled it on Trofeos, but 4s slower on MPSC2s just looks like sandbagging.

Nobody says the PZCS is even as good as the MPSC for grip!

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/667240-Pirelli-PZero-Corsa-vs-Michelin-Pilot-Sport-Cup

http://www.scoobynet.com/wheels-tyres-and-brakes-13/632493-michelin-pilot-sport-cup-or-pirelli-pzero-corsa-system.html

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/gt3-gt2/192366-michelin-sport-cup-vs-pirelli-corsa-system.html

So where does that put CH's test?

Trofeo R 1.4s quicker than PZCS. PZCS slower than MPSC. MPSC2 2.4s faster than MPSC+. But wait, Trofeo R 2s faster than MPSC2 and GT3 4s slower than 458S? Spot the BS.

So either way you play this, the P1 was faster on Anglesey. The PZCS vs MPSC2 difference is bigger than the MPSC2 Trofeo R difference that CH suggests. So if you argue that the P1 should have won by more than 1.2s with Trofeo R, then the 918 sure as hell should have won by more than 0.2s when it was on PZCS. And wear wise you can see from the reviews that the PZCS is a million miles from its quoted tread wear rating (80) relative to the MPSC (60), whilst also vastly better in the wet than the MPSC or MPSC2. Unfortunately the above tests and reviews show that Bovingdon is a complete cock for saying they're comparable with MPSC2s.
 
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The guy obviously has a personality disorder.
Never been on any Subaru forum. About the only time I visited once was when one owner drove his car through a house after crashing only 2 weeks prior. Apparently 'the boost just kicked in'. The 'cr4p0rz a h4u5e' thread was legendary. I always regret not bookmarking it, the gifs were epic.
 
All this to cover up the fact that:

1. Ferrari refuse to let their car be tested.

2. Ferrari refuse to let customers cars be tested.

3. McLaren has let their car be tested.

4. McLaren has let a customer car be tested.

5. McLaren is alone in this regards amongst the 3.

Who are the real clowns again?

1. porsche handed out their car(s) regardless of anything

2. why wouldn't mclaren face the 918 on THEIR OWN TEST TRACK (advantage)

3. we've all gotten used to ferrari sending technicians and engineers along with the factory car, however when you COME BACK after a loss and downright refuse to compete against the competitor again you aren't much better yourself
 
Yes, so if they used the homologated ones in the right size, it'd be faster. See the video above.

Retard, I will repeat this one more time for you, since you can't read or comprehend properly. The P1 does NOT have a bespoke Trofeo R for the P1. The Trofeo R that is on the P1 DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT have the Mclaren custom "MC" designation. It's not even in the correct size for the rear tires for God sake. The rear tire size for the P1 is 315/30/20. The Trofeo R that is available for the P1 is 305/30/20.

Going off of statements from journalists on Youtube is pointless. Please call your local Mclaren dealer for verification. Since you love quoting Mclaren life so much, here are a few quoted statements from P1 owners:

Mikeyb
"Mine are 305 30r20 103 y. No mc designation. So suspect you'll be able to find a dealer who can supply cheaper than a Mclaren dealer."

"indeed... those are the rears.. the point being that they're not mc designated..."

"i was prepared to buy the 'bespoke tyre for p1' argument.. until i find out they're not.. or at least they're widely available through reliable outlets."

Mbn
"I agree it's not bespoke, its just peace of mind.. ask me I don't deal with my dealer at all not buying cars from them and not even an oil chnage."


So we know from Chris Harris review, a standard Trofeo R (which is what the P1 has) is 2 secs faster than a "bespoke" MPSC2 tire on the 991 GT3. What else do you got?
 
Retard, I will repeat this one more time for you, since you can't read or comprehend properly. The P1 does NOT have a bespoke Trofeo R for the P1. The Trofeo R that is on the P1 DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT have the Mclaren custom "MC" designation. It's not even in the correct size for the rear tires for God sake. The rear tire size for the P1 is 315/30/20. The Trofeo R that is available for the P1 is 305/30/20.
Well maybe Bovingdon was wrong then, because he definitely said the Trofeo Rs were specifically made for the P1 on Twitter, when he was defending the 918's loss.

Don't really see how this influences things. The MPSC2s on the 918 are still unique and therefore not comparable to tyres on other cars and the MPSC2s are still way faster than PZCS as confirmed by other reviews and tests. CH's test, still a big question mark in terms of the MPSC2 GT3 time and how it applies to the P1/918 debate.

No need to be calling people retards either. Let's keep this civil.
 
1. porsche handed out their car(s) regardless of anything

2. why wouldn't mclaren face the 918 on THEIR OWN TEST TRACK (advantage)

3. we've all gotten used to ferrari sending technicians and engineers along with the factory car, however when you COME BACK after a loss and downright refuse to compete against the competitor again you aren't much better yourself
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe when this image clearly says, "TGTV will have the answers," ...

4f2b289305ba65257ae41d56e93e9059.webp


...and Clarkson comes out with a story about McLaren not wanting to race on TG track, which is later denied by McLaren, that maybe, just maybe, this is theatre and he's setting the scene for the Castelloli feature?

Porsche turned up with a full team of mechanics and a factory car at Laguna Seca, so they're no better than anyone else. Get out of your ivory tower.
 
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe when this image clearly says, "TGTV will have the answers," ...

4f2b289305ba65257ae41d56e93e9059.webp


...and Clarkson comes out with a story about McLaren not wanting to race on TG track, which is later denied by McLaren, that maybe, just maybe, this is theatre and he's setting the scene for the Castelloli feature?

Porsche turned up with a full team of mechanics and a factory car at Laguna Seca, so they're no better than anyone else. Get out of your ivory tower.

the three presenters said that they would race them at any chance they had and would continue to try to get all 3 of them together at a track (nor do i think the producer would declining something like this, more viewers you know)

according to treynor who you've also used as a source there were 1 technician on both cars, so equal condition for both cars
 
the three presenters said that they would race them at any chance they had and would continue to try to get all 3 of them together at a track (nor do i think the producer would declining something like this, more viewers you know)

according to treynor who you've also used as a source there were 1 technician on both cars, so equal condition for both cars
Except that one was a factory car but that wasn't my point. People claimed that Porsche just hand over the keys for tests, clearly they don't all the time.

Well if you can't put two and two together as regards the Castelloli test quote, "TGTV will have the answers," and what Clarkson said, then I can't help you.
 
Some people live in shallow, make believe realities.


Of course you can believ sub-7 minutes because it's obvious... even to complete dumbasses.


I'm sure the Veyron can lock all 4 at 200kph. I base the argument on the fact the P1 is a better car except for traction.

1. of course, i'm arguing with one who does

2. i said i could believe the sub-7 time, not that it was faster than the 918s

3. locking wheels doesn't help you slow down, anyway no further comment on inertia and contact patch?

the P1 is the better car *on paper
 
The isn't an awful lot between 'under 7 minutes' and faster than a 918 in case you haven't noticed.

No, locking the wheels doesn't help you slow down, but once you have enough braking torque to do that, there's no point in having more. That's why the P1's discs are actually smaller than the 650S's discs. Having larger brakes was functionally useless and therefore they chose to save weight instead.
 
Yes and a car that's constantly being tracked, and hitting kerbs on the 'ring is basically hitting pot holes all day long.


Huge tolerance range. Basically Sport Auto are known for their dubiously quick 911 times relative to other cars and other magazines. E.g. GT2 RS as fast as Gumpert Apollo S on 'ring.

If geometry stays accurate for so long, why aren't all cars smack bang in the centre of the tolerance range? In fact, why do they even have a tolerance range?


Now you're just spamming crap. Castelloli actually does have a higher speed bend going into a sharper turn to the right, see 1:43.

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This however may not be the corner, it may be a braking g from high speed, where aero braking would play a part. The telemetry from Laguna Seca does not show increased mechanical grip for the Trofeo R.


Several problems with that test:

1) Off the shelf tyres, not bespoke 918 and P1 tyres.

2) Pirelli sponsored event, not really independent.

3) Laps done on separate days. Time of day, track temperature, ambient temperature?

4) We don't actually see either of the two MPSC2 hot laps in CH's COTY run, but we do see the hot laps for every other car. Now it's interesting that some people are skeptical when McLaren doesn't release a lap video, but when someone else omits the fundamental basis behind a test result, no one questions it. Even the TR laps in that video are badly edited, so it's not really good journalism.

5) The GT3's MPSC2 time is just poor frankly. You wouldn't expect it to be 4s down on a 458S, you'd expect nearer 2s. So when the TR hot lap ends up where most estimates would have put the MPSC2 lap in the first place, it's not very convincing


Same day test. Temperatures etc.? What speed from?


Not really.

MPSC2 on 458, colder temperature, beats Trofeo R on Huracan tested 12degC higher. PZCS languishing way behind.

ed41dee6c81611762b80029a650f8e8f.webp


In your own world wheel alignment change just only during truck transportation.

It is you who wrote that the test braking TOP GEAR is indicative of the inferiority of PZCS no mentioning temperature or day trial.

The data posted disavowing your theory. The P1 doesn’t improve braking form 100 mph despite his alleged downforce, so the lateral g peak can be due almost completely to mechanical grip of the tire.

More The 650 S cannot match P1 braking (both from 60 than 100 mph) with same PZCS showing to you that braking test is not just mechanical grip. Read the table instead to ask

Datas are playing against you.

And when it happens you became a NASA scientist asking for temperature, day, pilot test moode and tax code and video proof certified by the CIA.

Clear strategy to defend the P1 debacle

Facts are that a Trofeo R gave 2s advantage in a GT3 991 using the same bespoke MPSC2 N0 of the 918 spyder. Plain and simple

The table you continuously post is surpassed by other evidence (always Dede Chart)
67f15730324702bf6244229e29ad54e0.webp


The Trofeo R, fitted on a Gallardo Squadra Corse, gave 1,1s per lap advantage in Hockenheim and instead worse braking distance all in the same day.
 

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