Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari
- Thread starter hoffmeister_fan
- Start date
tristatez28lt1
Tire Trailblazer
There are a hell of a lot of variables that determine who wins in any race. You could say the 918 wins the pole position for now. One outright fast lap is all it takes to win. Most of the lap times are hard to replicate anyway (records for GT-R, Z06, LF-A, 918, Huayra, etc.)
Overall, I'm still surprised that the 918 is doing so well. Not a fan boy here, simply marveling at the tech in that car. It's certainly the better hybrid but despite being the underdog, it is right there with the P1 and more often then not, faster. Hats off to Porsche for letting people test the 918 too. McLaren and Ferrari should just give cars away to test without making a big fuzz about it. But then again there'e that rumor about the LaFerrari's weight problem...
Bucketslash11
Das Beste Enthusiast
Looks like the 918 is faster than the P1 on some tracks... for one lap.
This has surely turned into the shallowest victory every.
quit chenging the subject of what faster means
first it was about who's FASTER
then when the nordschleife came in, it was about how its ON-PAPER STATS made it faster
when autocar found it to be faster on the dry track, it was about being faster in the WET
and now when the P1 is yet again beaten by the 918, suddenly CONSISTENCY is the most important thing
you keep changing the definition of what FASTER means in order for the P1 to win, the 918 set a faster laptime and that's all we need to know
These are supposed to be the road-going basis of GT endurance racers, so of course consistency matters, when has it not mattered in relation to racing and/or trackdays?
The bare fact is that the 918 can do one lap faster on Laguna Seca, but not Anglesey Coastal, and then it is slower for the next 14 laps (see quotes above). The P1 is only slower for that one lap because it doesn't have a specialised hot-lap mode for time trials, which are completely irrelevant for all but magazine tests.
I'm just quoting facts about how the 918 can only do one lap faster than the P1 on some tracks, and then 14 laps slower than the P1. Faster for a whole 90s and then slower for >21 minutes.Emu is quoting only what he likesWhat a surprise...
They did that this time, weren't you reading the quotes. The P1 was faster over 10 laps and 15 laps and even 4 laps. We all know the real aim of these test is to establish approximate race/track day capability and the P1 won on that.
Wrong, the average owner actually uses the throttle more than a race driver and the brakes less because they don't carry as much speed through corners and don't brake as hard:
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/21713-p1-vs-918-a-37.html#post563178
"No none.. Fuel tank was the limit.
Chatting with some folks us mortals are normally about as aggressive as the pros with the throttle but not so good or even close on the brakes and carrying speed through corners. We could arguably be harder on the throttle although that's stretching a bit in my opinion as we carry less speed in corners.
I am also of the opinion that spa is a huge test for the regen, probably more so than the ring as more time spent at full throttle relative to part or off throttle.
So in my view if it had no problems at spa it won't anywhere but interesting to know what Ben found."
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/21713-p1-vs-918-a-40.html#post563914
Oh how the pious and mighty have fallen!
Oh how the pious and mighty have fallen!
boyko23
Precision Pilot
What about this, EMU?
To sumarize some facts - this test was held to find which car can set a faster lap time. Porsche did it without any problem even with the non WS car and far less sets of tires.
It's more than obvious that treynor (Ben) isn't pleased with the fact, that his million dollar car was raped and tries to find something which is in his favor - telemetry, consistency, tire wear, etc... But the 918 didn't use its Race or Sport modes, which ARE the modes for consistent lapS, BECAUSE THIS WASN'T THE TARGET!
Next thing, which I expect from McLaren cultists is "which is faster from Paris to Dakar"
"First of all, it's called "Hot Lap" mode......not "Hot Laps", so it's designed to go like a qualifying lap. Hot Lap mode was never designed to set back to back fasest laps. You set consistent laps in Race Mode, that's why it's called "Race" (ie. uh....like in a "race"??).
Second, in the test, the P1 tried to "mimic" 918's Hot Lap mode by going slow in the first lap and then going for it full blast on the following lap. Ultimately, 918 has the Hot Lap mode because it can, due to brake re-gen. If the P1 had a Hot Lap mode (where it shuts off the engine re-gen function), sure the car would be faster, but the battery wouldn't even last a full lap because the P1 has no brake re-gen.
Third, even on the second lap (the lap right after the latest lap was set), the 918 still beats the P1 on its second lap (the lap right after the latest lap was set). The 918 dropped off by 1s on the second lap and the P1 dropped off 0.3-0.4s on its second lap.
918 had 1.29.X on its fastest lap, the second lap went up to 1.30.X. The P1 had 1.30.X on its fastest lap, the second lap went up to 1.31.X.
Fourth, no testing was done on the 918 in the Race mode for multiple laps. Unfortunately, this was not the objective set out by Porsche that day. It would be interesting to see what kind of laps the 918 can set under Race mode. We do know from Porsche testing data, the difference between Hot Lap and Race Mode at the Nurburgring is 3-4 seconds."
To sumarize some facts - this test was held to find which car can set a faster lap time. Porsche did it without any problem even with the non WS car and far less sets of tires.
It's more than obvious that treynor (Ben) isn't pleased with the fact, that his million dollar car was raped and tries to find something which is in his favor - telemetry, consistency, tire wear, etc... But the 918 didn't use its Race or Sport modes, which ARE the modes for consistent lapS, BECAUSE THIS WASN'T THE TARGET!
Next thing, which I expect from McLaren cultists is "which is faster from Paris to Dakar"
"First of all, it's called "Hot Lap" mode......not "Hot Laps", so it's designed to go like a qualifying lap. Hot Lap mode was never designed to set back to back fasest laps. You set consistent laps in Race Mode, that's why it's called "Race" (ie. uh....like in a "race"??).
Second, in the test, the P1 tried to "mimic" 918's Hot Lap mode by going slow in the first lap and then going for it full blast on the following lap. Ultimately, 918 has the Hot Lap mode because it can, due to brake re-gen. If the P1 had a Hot Lap mode (where it shuts off the engine re-gen function), sure the car would be faster, but the battery wouldn't even last a full lap because the P1 has no brake re-gen.
Third, even on the second lap (the lap right after the latest lap was set), the 918 still beats the P1 on its second lap (the lap right after the latest lap was set). The 918 dropped off by 1s on the second lap and the P1 dropped off 0.3-0.4s on its second lap.
918 had 1.29.X on its fastest lap, the second lap went up to 1.30.X. The P1 had 1.30.X on its fastest lap, the second lap went up to 1.31.X.
Fourth, no testing was done on the 918 in the Race mode for multiple laps. Unfortunately, this was not the objective set out by Porsche that day. It would be interesting to see what kind of laps the 918 can set under Race mode. We do know from Porsche testing data, the difference between Hot Lap and Race Mode at the Nurburgring is 3-4 seconds."
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/21713-p1-vs-918-a-40.html#post563914
Oh how the pious and mighty have fallen!
Really? Is this how desperate you are?
There were no customer 918's available. Even Porsche couldn't source a WP car so they sent along a non WP car. That tells you everything about how confident they were in the 918.
And of course Mclaren sent some techs along to make sure Ben's car was in tip top condition.
Oh wow, so the 918 did two laps marginally faster before it died and became slower for the next 13 laps. The only reason it's faster at all is because it has a mode that allows it to use the e-motors like a bottle of nitrous.What about this, EMU?
To sumarize some facts - this test was held to find which car can set a faster lap time. Porsche did it without any problem even with the non WS car and far less sets of tires.
It's more than obvious that treynor (Ben) isn't pleased with the fact, that his million dollar car was raped and tries to find something which is in his favor - telemetry, consistency, tire wear, etc... But the 918 didn't use its Race or Sport modes, which ARE the modes for consistent lapS, BECAUSE THIS WASN'T THE TARGET!
Next thing, which I expect from McLaren cultists is "which is faster from Paris to Dakar"
"First of all, it's called "Hot Lap" mode......not "Hot Laps", so it's designed to go like a qualifying lap. Hot Lap mode was never designed to set back to back fasest laps. You set consistent laps in Race Mode, that's why it's called "Race" (ie. uh....like in a "race"??).
Second, in the test, the P1 tried to "mimic" 918's Hot Lap mode by going slow in the first lap and then going for it full blast on the following lap. Ultimately, 918 has the Hot Lap mode because it can, due to brake re-gen. If the P1 had a Hot Lap mode (where it shuts off the engine re-gen function), sure the car would be faster, but the battery wouldn't even last a full lap because the P1 has no brake re-gen.
Third, even on the second lap (the lap right after the latest lap was set), the 918 still beats the P1 on its second lap (the lap right after the latest lap was set). The 918 dropped off by 1s on the second lap and the P1 dropped off 0.3-0.4s on its second lap.
918 had 1.29.X on its fastest lap, the second lap went up to 1.30.X. The P1 had 1.30.X on its fastest lap, the second lap went up to 1.31.X.
Fourth, no testing was done on the 918 in the Race mode for multiple laps. Unfortunately, this was not the objective set out by Porsche that day. It would be interesting to see what kind of laps the 918 can set under Race mode. We do know from Porsche testing data, the difference between Hot Lap and Race Mode at the Nurburgring is 3-4 seconds."
Secondly the 918 couldn't use HL all the way around the Nurburgring according to Apolo1/citylad himself.
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/21713-p1-vs-918-a-39.html#post563578
"again that's not the optimal way of driving the 918 . The porsche techs may have suggested a strategy but the true way to drive the 918 at its fastest for longest is to actually change track settings as you drive . This came from the guys that built it and Weissach techs I spoke to at length . Sure you can just drop it in a mode and still kill everything but the fastest way is to drive in a couple of different modes that change the aero and re gen properties as required for different portions of the track . I will demonstrate exactly what I know with video and data at spa later in the year . You will be pleasantly surprised ."
"Just spoke to one of the ring time team, through a 3rd party, this is exactly what was done, it can be seen that ML is modulating between modes....in the later part of the video"
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/21713-p1-vs-918-a-38.html#post563418
"I had requested we run both cars for several laps in a row to answer this question. The Porsche techs were focused on running hotlap times. Randy simply did his own thing
Perhaps if we could get a customer 918 instead of a factory - supplied car, we could run this test in the future."
So no, the 918 cannot do a full 'ring lap in HL and 4s is obtained from using HL for only part of the lap in a pre-optimised manner. After just 2 laps it was 1.5s down at Laguna Seca and slower thereafter. It is therefore not faster than the P1 in race hybrid mode at all and wasn't faster on Anglesey Coastal even in Hot Lap mode. Porsche also had the opportunity to try Race Hybrid in their factory prepped car but avoided doing so. The P1's variance of 0.3s over 15 laps was largely normal lap-to-lap variance:
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/21713-p1-vs-918-a-40.html#post564162
"I hope MT releases the full telemetry from the test. The interesting pattern I see: Randy was more consistent with the 918, and the lap time degradation between S3: lap 3 and 4 done in HotLap was almost entirely due to the loss of power up the hill out of T6, and the loss of power up the front straight out of T11. The accel curves are identical for the other straights, showing how much electric power the 918 is regenerating from braking. I don't have the telemetry from the laps where the P1 ran back-to-back laps at full speed, to see how much was driver inconsistency and how much was power degradation, but I'll ask about obtaining it."
The objective of these cars is clearly to determine how well tehy perform as race/track cars. One lap just doesn't cut the mustard, the P1 could pull a similar stunt if it had a hot lap mode.
It seems the 918's speciality is premature ejaculation when it comes to lap times. A quick spurt then it's left red-faced. Sometimes some of that quick spurt hits the mark - Laguna Seca, sometimes it doesn't - Anglesey Coastal.
And they also came along with the car to the track! I thought they didn't do that right? Hands off approach and all?
I think it's pretty obvious don't you? If it's 1.5s off by lap 3, only 3 minutes in, and doesn't stabilise even at that, the game's up. Basically the P1 can lap to within a tenth of 1:31 all day long, whereas the 918 is up to 1:32 by lap 4. True GT race car genes show through. Nice try, thanks for playing.
What I read comes from owners who were actually there. What you say Apolo1/citylad has been described as complete BS by said owners, hence why they have you on ignore.
Its not quiet as simple as is made out..
I am with EVO on this Hot Lap mode charge point, it all depends on the track and the driver, in the EVO test there are some high braking point's, ie more re-gen, so if you are in a higher re-gen situation then the Lap times can remain constant. So Hot Lap mode can be Hot lap" s" mode on some tracks....
The last time I was on track in 918 late last year, in HL mode I finished with more % batt power than what I started with. Although this was over 3 laps
With regard to this ring time HL mode, I was told on customer 918 visit last year, that HL mode was not used during this time, this and others reasons is why they feel that a faster time is available. When HL mode is engaged the"Magneto " switch glows bright red, this can not be seen on the ring time video......in fact it is only after the 6.57 time is passed that the power train is adjusted..
I am with EVO on this Hot Lap mode charge point, it all depends on the track and the driver, in the EVO test there are some high braking point's, ie more re-gen, so if you are in a higher re-gen situation then the Lap times can remain constant. So Hot Lap mode can be Hot lap" s" mode on some tracks....
The last time I was on track in 918 late last year, in HL mode I finished with more % batt power than what I started with. Although this was over 3 laps
With regard to this ring time HL mode, I was told on customer 918 visit last year, that HL mode was not used during this time, this and others reasons is why they feel that a faster time is available. When HL mode is engaged the"Magneto " switch glows bright red, this can not be seen on the ring time video......in fact it is only after the 6.57 time is passed that the power train is adjusted..
Some don't like my view,( I am not a cult member, ) I have no problem with that, we are all entitled to our views, I only comment the cars that I own along with my own track time experience.....don't need a mag article for a view,What I read comes from owners who were actually there. What you say Apolo1/citylad has been described as complete BS by said owners, hence why they have you on ignore.
Emu
I currently own 16 cars,( been driving and owning high end performance cars for over 30 years) and do about 30 track days a year, be interesting to know what your own time is in the cars you write about .....?
Btw, the ones that have me on ignore, also exchange PMs with me on tech points on other forums.....
On the Spanish TG test, no decision yet on when its going to be shown, but it is in the current season......
boyko23
Precision Pilot
After all this 918>P3 massacre, Mac cultists are only interested in 24h endurance comparison tests, hahaha
But wait, 918 has better e-millage and center wheel nuts, so even this isn't sure.
best we don't talk about that its a spider, with heated elec leather seats, and a working Nav and just about the best stereo put in any car....ever
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