German Car Forum

I couldn't find such a list on the net, so I thought everyone could contribute here and make a list.

List updating when a member find new numbers:

Alfa 159 - 31.400Nm/degree
Aston Martin DB9 Coupe 27,000 Nm/deg
Aston Martin DB9 Convertible 15,500 Nm/deg
Aston Martin Vanquish 28,500 Nm/deg
Audi TT Coupe 19,000 Nm/deg
Bugatti EB110 - 19,000 Nm/degree
BMW E36 Touring 10,900 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Z3 5,600 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) 14,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Convertible 10,500 Nm/deg
BMW X5 (2004) - 23,100 Nm/degree
BMW E90: 22,500 Nm/deg
BMW Z4 Coupe, 32,000Nm/degree
BMW Z4 Roadster: 14,500 Nm/deg
Bugatti Veyron - 60,000 Nm/degree
Chrysler Crossfire 20,140 Nm/deg
Chrysler Durango 6,800 Nm/deg
Chevrolet Corvette C5 9,100 Nm/deg
Dodge Viper Coupe 7,600 Nm/deg
Ferrari 360 Spider 8,500 Nm/deg
Ford GT: 27,100 Nm/deg
Ford GT40 MkI 17,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2003 16,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2005 21,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2003) 4,800 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2005) 9,500 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Sedan 22,000 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Estate 16,319 Nm/deg
Koenigsegg - 28.100 Nm/degree
Lambo Murcielago 20,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan 7,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan GRP body 8,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 10,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 111s 11,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Esprit SE Turbo 5,850 Nm/deg
Maserati QP - 18.000 nm/degree
McLaren F1 13,500 Nm/deg
Mercedes SL - With top down 17,000 Nm/deg, with top up 21,000 Nm/deg
Mini (2003) 24,500 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda C12 S 26,300 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda F - 27,000 Nm/degree
Porsche 911 Turbo (2000) 13,500 Nm/deg
Porsche 959 12,900 Nm/deg
Porsche Carrera GT - 26,000Nm/degree
Rolls-Royce Phantom - 40,500 Nm/degree
Volvo S60 20,000 Nm/deg
Audi A2: 11,900 Nm/deg
Audi A8: 25,000 Nm/deg
Audi TT: 10,000 Nm/deg (22Hz)
Golf V GTI: 25,000 Nm/deg
Chevrolet Cobalt: 28 Hz
Ferrari 360: 1,474 kgm/degree (bending: 1,032 kg/mm)
Ferrari 355: 1,024 kgm/degree (bending: 727 kg/mm)
Ferrari 430: supposedly 20% higher than 360
Renault Sport Spider: 10,000 Nm/degree
Volvo S80: 18,600 Nm/deg
Koenigsegg CC-8: 28,100 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996: 27,000 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996 Convertible: 11,600 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Carrera Type 997: 33,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise S2 Exige (2004): 10,500 Nm/deg
Volkswagen Fox: 17,941 Nm/deg
VW Phaeton - 37,000 Nm/degree
VW Passat (2006) - 32,400 Nm/degree
Ferrari F50: 34,600 Nm/deg
Lambo Gallardo: 23000 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-8: 30,000 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-7: ~15,000 Nm/deg
Mazda RX8 - 30,000 Nm/degree
Saab 9-3 Sportcombi - 21,000 Nm/degree
Opel Astra - 12,000 Nm/degree
Land rover Freelander 2 - 28,000 Nm/degree
Lamborghini Countach 2,600 Nm/deg
Ford Focus 3d 19.600 Nm/deg
Ford Focus 5d 17.900 Nm/deg

Good luck, James. Finding these numbers isn't easy

However

27,000 NM - Pagani Zonda F
25,000 Nm - Pagani Zonda C12

^DAMN thats rigid..haha

I have some more Pagani and Porsche numbers at home. Will post tomorrow.

Koengisegg - 28.100 Nm/degree - source koengisegg webpage

Rolls-royce phantom - 40,000 Nm/degree - source RR


and I think we have a winner - Bugatti Veyron - 60,000 Nm/degree
Source

humm some interesting numbers here, I would expect cars like the Pagini Zonda and Koengisegg will have a higher torsional ridgidity, since they have carbon fiber monocoque. Wheels magazine (dec 2005 issue) said the Pagini Zonda has a torsional ridgidity of 25 000 Nm/deg as well. They also said the Bugatti Veyron has torsional ridgidity of 80 000 Nm/deg, which is just absolutely amazing

ok Mirage, here is a list for you found on the web

Bugatti Veyron - 60,000 Nm/degree
Aston Martin DB9 Coupe 27,000 Nm/deg
Aston Martin DB9 Convertible 15,500 Nm/deg
Audi TT Coupe 19,000 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Touring 10,900 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Z3 5,600 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) 14,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Convertible 10,500 Nm/deg
Chrysler Crossfire 20,140 Nm/deg
Chrysler Durango 6,800 Nm/deg
Dodge Viper Coupe 7,600 Nm/deg
Ferrari 360 Spider 8,500 Nm/deg
Ford GT40 MkI 17,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2003 16,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2005 21,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2003) 4,800 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2005) 9,500 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Sedan 22,000 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Estate 16,319 Nm/deg
Lambo Murcielago 20,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan 7,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan GRP body 8,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 10,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 111s 11,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Esprit SE Turbo 5,850 Nm/deg
McLaren F1 13,500 Nm/deg
Mini (2003) 24,500 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda C12 S 26,300 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo (2000) 13,500 Nm/deg
Porsche 959 12,900 Nm/deg
Volvo S60 20,000 Nm/deg

Rolls Royce Phantom: 40,000 Nm/deg
BMW E90: 22,500 Nm/deg
BMW Z4: 21Hz... :scratch: Now I just need to figure out how to convert that...
Audi A2: 11900 Nm/deg
Audi A8: 25,000 Nm/deg
Audi TT: 10,000 Nm/deg (22Hz)
Golf V GTI: 25,000 Nm/deg
Chevrolet Cobalt: 28 Hz
Ferrari 360: 1,474 kgm/degree (bending: 1,032 kg/mm)
Ferrari 355: 1,024 kgm/degree (bending: 727 kg/mm)
Ferrari 430: supposedly 20% higher than 360
Renault Sport Spider: 10,000 Nm/degree
Volvo S80: 18,600 Nm/deg
Koenigsegg CC-8: 28,100 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996: 27,000 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996 Convertible: 11,600 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise S2 Exige (2004): 10,500 Nm/deg
Volkswagen Fox: 17,941 Nm/deg
BMW Z4 roadster: 16,000 Nm/deg
Ferrari F50: 34,600 Nm/deg
Lambo Gallardo: 23000 Nm/deg
Ford GT: 27,100 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-8: 30,000 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-7: ~15,000 Nm/deg

and adding some more

Porsche 911 Carrera Type 997: 33,000 Nm/deg
Mercedes SL (MY 2006)
'the torsional rigidity of the car increases from 17,000Nm per degree with the top down to 21,000Nm per degree with the top up."

BMW Z4 Coupe, the rigidity is 32,000Nm/degree:
" the M Coupé platform also boasts a significant functional advantage in terms of chassis stiffness with an unprecedented torsional stiffness of 32,000 Nm per degree, setting a new record in its segment and contributing not only to optimal handling dynamics but an exceptional level of passive safety."

Karma for you, Just_me!

I'm most astonished by the Phaeton's rigidity. It's one of the stiffest cars in that list!

Here's the consolidated list...

Aston Martin DB9 Coupe 27,000 Nm/deg
Aston Martin DB9 Convertible 15,500 Nm/deg
Audi TT Coupe 19,000 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Touring 10,900 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Z3 5,600 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) 14,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Convertible 10,500 Nm/deg
Bugatti Veyron - 60,000 Nm/degree
Chrysler Crossfire 20,140 Nm/deg
Chrysler Durango 6,800 Nm/deg
Dodge Viper Coupe 7,600 Nm/deg
Ferrari 360 Spider 8,500 Nm/deg
Ford GT40 MkI 17,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2003 16,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2005 21,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2003) 4,800 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2005) 9,500 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Sedan 22,000 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Estate 16,319 Nm/deg
Koenigsegg - 28.100 Nm/degree
Lambo Murcielago 20,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan 7,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan GRP body 8,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 10,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 111s 11,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Esprit SE Turbo 5,850 Nm/deg
McLaren F1 13,500 Nm/deg
Mini (2003) 24,500 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda C12 S 26,300 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda F - 27,000 Nm/degree
Porsche 911 Turbo (2000) 13,500 Nm/deg
Porsche 959 12,900 Nm/deg
Rolls-royce Phantom - 40,000 Nm/degree
Volvo S60 20,000 Nm/deg
BMW E90: 22,500 Nm/deg
BMW Z4: 21Hz... :scratch: Now I just need to figure out how to convert that...
BMW M Coupe, 32,000Nm/degree
Audi A2: 11,900 Nm/deg
Audi A8: 25,000 Nm/deg
Audi TT: 10,000 Nm/deg (22Hz)
Golf V GTI: 25,000 Nm/deg
Chevrolet Cobalt: 28 Hz
Ferrari 360: 1,474 kgm/degree (bending: 1,032 kg/mm)
Ferrari 355: 1,024 kgm/degree (bending: 727 kg/mm)
Ferrari 430: supposedly 20% higher than 360
Renault Sport Spider: 10,000 Nm/degree
Volvo S80: 18,600 Nm/deg
Koenigsegg CC-8: 28,100 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996: 27,000 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996 Convertible: 11,600 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Carrera Type 997: 33,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise S2 Exige (2004): 10,500 Nm/deg
Volkswagen Fox: 17,941 Nm/deg
VW Phaeton - 37,000 Nm/degree
BMW Z4: 14,500 Nm/deg
Ferrari F50: 34,600 Nm/deg
Lambo Gallardo: 23000 Nm/deg
Ford GT: 27,100 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-8: 30,000 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-7: ~15,000 Nm/deg

Maserati QP - 18.000 nm/degree
Alfa 159 - 31.400Nm/degree

O.K. I'm a moron without a degree in physics. Can somebody please explain to me how to read these numbers -- could you please give me a crash course in classical mechanics.

I googled I still dont know

some links
Torsional Analysis

cars.com Vehicle Profile: VPedia

Here's the consolidated list... Hey Andreas, can you add on to this list instead of posting individual numbers? Makes it easier for reference that way...

ok! BTW I copy the list to your first post and I move this thread to " Test Data". Is that okey with you?

Yup certainly... Thanks.

Great post Mirage77.

Im surprised the Phaeton is so much more rigid then the A8.

Rob...its quite simple really. Torsional rigidity is defined as:

Get it now?

From my rudimentary understanding though, the more rigid a chassis is the less chassis flex exists thus better withstanding the stresses caused by the drivetrain and other forces acting on the vehicle (road bumps etc.). It also provides a better foundation for absolutely precise suspension tuning. Or maybe I'm talking rubbish.

This is what people fail to see: in trading off for weight, the Phaeton is, as a result, a far more stiffer car.

What's interesting to me though, is what this stiffness can do for the car. Apart from collision protection and handling advantages, I don't see anything else. And the handling advantage is partly negated by the extra weight.

Ok its been done


I wonder if there are any numbers for a Formula 1 ?

Thanks for the insight Mr. M...

So it seems that torsional rigidity would give a better ride quality as well.

I've seen them being thrown around, but not a consolidated list. Will keep a lookout.

Thanks for this Mr. Einstein.

BTW, aren't aluminum bodies generally stiffer than steel ones?

Also, has anybody got the figures for the Rolls-Royce Phantom DHC?

lol...I think I may be talking rubbish, but that's my inferred understanding about the subject. Could somone who really knows what they're on about please explain? Google isn't much help.

I also thought aluminium would be stiffer than steel, which is why im quite perplexed about the A8 vs. Phaeton.

I thought so too, can someone explain the metal characteristics?

I'll try finding the DHC numbers... But since it's a new car, it's quite difficult.

I searched for it but no numbers, the pressrelese from RR just say almost as rigid as ....

ok heres what I found on google:

torsional rigidity

A vehicle body’s resistance to twisting forces

In the world of physics, just about any word beginning with “tor” has something to do with twisting — such as torque, which refers to the twisting force exerted by an engine. Torsion itself simply means twisting, and in a vehicle, it refers to the kind that would happen if Godzilla grabbed it, front and rear, and twisted either end in opposite directions. The forces a vehicle encounters when cruising and turning are not quite as great, but they are a significant issue. A vehicle with high torsional rigidity resists these forces better than one with low torsional rigidity.

A little flex in a vehicle’s structure doesn’t hurt, but overall, you don’t want too much torsion in your vehicle’s body. Low rigidity in a vehicle results in vibrations and degrades handling performance. Good handling performance relies, in part, on suspension designs that optimize wheel/road contact under all conditions. Introduce too much torsion to a vehicle’s body, and the wheels are no longer where they are supposed to be relative to each other. In these cases, even well-engineered suspensions don’t stand a chance.

So there is such a thing as too much rigidity.

More:

Sometimes called chassis stiffness. It relates to how rigid the chassis is in twisting. Imagine a sport utility vehicle that needs to climb over rocks. Those without long suspension movements sometimes have lower torsional rigidity to allow the chassis to respond to uneven ground. A passenger car, on the other hand, should have high torsional rigidity in order to give the car a smooth ride, less vibration and better handling. Sports and performance cars are usually the stiffest in order to minimize any flex except for that offered by the springs and shocks to obtain consistent handling.