September Update Prt 2: What has gone before...


SCOTT27

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September Update Prt 2:


What has gone before...

It all depends on how you class the BMW 6er in it's previous (E63) generation?
It was more of a 5er Coupe rather than the 7er although it's looks were more in the same vein as the previous BMW 7er the E65, from the sharper front to that aerodynamic rear trunk design.

Of course the 6er was not originally destined to be called the 6er as it was BMW's intention to re-imagine the 8er which is why the looks look closer to the E65 rather then the E60. Until they finally bit the bullet to launch the E63 as the new 6er , a reincarnation of a BMW classic which depends on who you were did not go down as well as expected.

In the present day with the next generation or third generation BMW 6er on the horizon. BMW have made the new car slightly larger and more powerful in appearance with the car giving a powerful expression of Performance and luxury.
Which will see a slight increase in price and status. The 6er will be BMW's top Coupe there will not be an 8er . That time has passed, As the 6er becomes BMW's top flight Coupe.

The question remains what happens to BMW's mid-segment Coupe?
Seriously considered in response to the Mercedes-Benz CE Coupe and Cabrio. BMW's R&D chief Wolfgang Reitzle commissioned a Coupe and Cabrio proposal for the then BMW 5er (The E34) , The success of the 3er 2dr and cabrio prompted Reitzle to investigate if such a project would be feasible for the 5er , plus observations at the CE Mercedes-Benz proved an inticing concept to expand the 5er portfolio and increase the 5er's image.

Both Coupe and Cabrio models were built to investigate the market and BMW's board of management were impressed by the two concepts , especially at the salivating idea of an M5 Coupe unfortunately the world-wide recession was about to blow in killing the projects chances and with it some other propsals such as the 8er cabrio and M8 Super car.
Forced to concentrate all resources on the highly successful "recession" buster the BMW E36 3er - the car that took the 3er in a new direction and of course BMW to new heights.

BMW always had the 5er Coupe and Cabrio at the back of it's mind and finally decided to show a proposal as a Concept Car in this case a prototype Cabrio was created but as an M5. Internal politics especially with the arrival of the new 3er Cabrio in E36 form stopped the Cabrio dead in it's tracks.

With the BMW portfolio now , the lower models such as the 1er and 3er offer a full range of versatile options which secure the 1er and 3er as the most profit driven BMW models a claim that will be further tested when the new platform strategy kicks in with an enticing new series of concepts aimed at forecast future growth in the lower segments.

The upper segments have not been forgotten aswell with the BMW 6er inheriting a sedan-coupe model entitled Gran Coupe an additional Shooting Brake has been designed and is being investigated as a concept.
The BMW 5er has also expanded with the 5er Gran Turismo.
And it is within the 5er that BMW are looking for another solution.

The new 5er (F10) has been a huge success in the following of it's launch and the Touring is following suit with some markets not be able to deliver Touring models until early 2011 due to huge demand especially for the most complete BMW ever the - 520d Touring.

“The big push in new models, entering new segments comes after 2012,
But as recently announced BMW are investigating more concepts to increase sales and profitability. The Strategy for the 1er and 3er are nearing completion , as is the strategy for the 6er , the 5er opens doors to possibilities.
especially to models that can be created using existing resources.

One of which is a 5er coupe and cabrio built using existing resources and filling the gap between 3er coupe and 6er.

In the proposal for the Coupe and Cabrio models of the F10 it is the identifed to use as much as available to lower costs , something similar Mercedes has instigated for it's C-Coupe.

The look of the Coupe is similar to the sedan except with stretched two doors ,the rear lights come from the Touring models to push down costs and add extra identity.
The key differences is the windscreen raked a few inches more towards the rear but keeping with the 5er's Coupe like profile.
The front of the car receives a wider lower opening and reprofiled lights.
Interior and dash all remain the same except for a leather covered "hood" on one the pillars on the centre console splitting driver from passenger , similar to the seperate cockpit idea on the CS Concept.

The Cabrio follows the same ideas but in response to the 3er cabrio especially it's popular fully functional hard-top, There are investigations to drop the folding hardtop created for the BMW 6er between BMW and an outside company into the 5er Cabrio.
The Hardtop was removed when it proved impossible to adjust to weight and size especially in the need for a large trunk space.
Using a hardtop would mean BMW would generate a profit aswell as utilising their investment of the installation of a production line to manufacture hardtops within the Dingolfling werk where the cars would be manufactured.

In reality both concepts were presented beautifully , recognizeable as a 5er but with some differences to give it a very different identity, especially at the rear.
The question remains whether or not BMW finally take the step to recognize that the range could benefit from a new mid-line coupe or that the car could be too close to the 6er for comfort. It all depends on the final breakdown but the idea is to use as much as resources as available to drive down costs and generate profit.

Perhaps What has gone before might pass..or this time become a reality.

What do you think?
Is there room for a 5er Coupe and Cabrio?

 

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Any new BMW model is welcome, especially a coupe or a cabrio, if the new 6 is big and more imposing than the actual, YES there are room for the 5 coupe and cabrio, GREAT NEWS!
 
Absolutely not. 6er is the 5er Coupe, is BMW really serious when they think in a car probably 10 cm shorter thna a 6er, with the front end of a 5er and the rear end of a 5er Touring?.

This better be a joke.
 
I think a 5-series-minus-two-doors will not be a success. A 5-series coupe has to offer something different (special) compared to its 4-door sibling. After all, this is a niche-plugging exercise. The CLS did well because it was the first of its kind and it was very different compared to the E-Class which it was based. The forthcoming C-Coupe will be a success because it is the most affordable (due to its similarities with the sedan) sporty Mercedes and it was designed to be a conquest-sale model for new customers to the brand. These new Mercedes customers just want to get into a three-pointed-star coupe. But I suspect 5-series customers are somewhat more sophisticated and demanding. The positioning of the E-Class sedan and the coupe allows the two to co-exist. The E-Class sedan is a comfortable practical sedan, whereas the E-Class coupe is the sporty stylish 2-door. The 5-series sedan is already a sports sedan. I can't see how a 5-series coupe could be a great deal more sporty without sacrificing comfort.

Also, I don't believe the 6-series is strong enough (based on the outgoing 6-series) to have an internal competitor in addition to the competition externally. It can get a little messy. If the 5-series coupe is priced too close to the 6-series, then there are going to be cannibalisation problems. But if BMW decides put a clear gap between the two by pushing up the 6-series by increasing the price, then BMW risks putting the 6-series head-to-head with the Mercedes SL - a war that could not be won.

I don't know, seems to me there is very little room for a 5-series coupe/cabriolet.
 
Put the Touring back lights on the limousine and thats a big plus.......Forgette about the 5er Coupe and Cabrio. Bring us the CS Concept, Z8 a Suppersport Version of the new 6er and the other small toys.............thats it :D
 
Don't think there is a niche there, unless the 6series goes more upmarket (ie CL range) but afterall the CL is indeed a S-coupe, in that case we'll need a 7series coupe as well? Doesn't make sense so just flag the coupe/cabrio 5series thought imo. The 6series is arguably a 5series coupe already.
 
But even if it ever gets the greenlight, by the time it reaches showroom 3-4 years from now, the F10 would have been 4-5 years old and time for a new generation.

What's the point ?
 
There is, no doubt, room for a 5-series coupe (and convertible). Keeping down costs and making a reasonably sized coupe available should be a surefire hit. The key here is to differentiate. If the 6-series is about luxury, the 5-series coupe can't try and do the same, it will end up looking like a poor mans choice. Instead, it should be aimed at e.g. the small family that is not yet ready to grow up or give it a more sporty touch.

I'm all for it.
 
Fucing hell, you guys think that there's a room for a 5er coupe along with a 6er GC but not for a 7er CS ? i say stop smoking weed, take a cool shower and return to planet earth as soon as possible.
 
The thought that the already overpriced 6 Series will be moved upmarket even more sends shivers down my spine. I get the feeling that the main method of moving it even more upmarket will just be to increase the price even more. People will see the 6 Series as a 5 Series coupe, not a 7.
 
What do you think?
Is there room for a 5er Coupe and Cabrio?

It depends on pricing. If 6-Series is pushed higher, more in 7-Series territory, then I guess it could work. With larger and more upscale 6er, offered with top-end engines only, there is a room for 2-door 5-series sedan which can then be offered also as eg. 520d Coupe, with only slight premium over sedan. Cabrio? No. Coupe only, mostly aimed at European markets. And Chinese if the car is produced locally. Less in US, Russia and ME. There also has to be a difference in character. 6-series being an upscale sports car with less comfort, while 5-series coupe can bet more on comfort and less on sports compared to 6-series. I would (if I could) also make 6-series Coupe boot a hatch, while leaving 5-series coupe with a traditional sedan boot. :t-hands:

People will see the 6 Series as a 5 Series coupe, not a 7.

Not if there is a real 5-Series coupe offered. :t-hands:
 
Oh man, I've already criticized BMW for getting in over their heads, and diluting the brand. It *might* work now, but I think they're pushing too far, too fast. I think their mind-frame is "keep everything modular, save tons of money by making parts do double-duty, and have fun by creating tons of different models". Problem with that is, marketing is running the company to the nth degree, and this cannot help them to build on being a "Premium" brand in the coming years. Basically, it seems there might be a lot of enthusiasm and creativity to expand expand expand, but are they protecting themselves?

Anyway, I don't think it would be a good idea. For many reasons. One being, the 6 is basically a "5-Coupe", and an actual 5-Coupe, might just spread things thinly between the 3 and 6. On top of that, it is widely known that the Coupe market is becoming more and more irrelevant, as people move to Sedans more and more, especially since nowadays, Sedans come full with the sleek proportions of Coupe's, yet with the added utility.
 
BMW have always thought about a Coupe and Cabrio for the 5er since the E34.

Personally I do not see it happening in this generation at least. Or at least in volume production.
All things have to be considered especially when the F32 3er Coupe arrives.

If it did get the go ahead and I say if because it is an evaluation study then it would be introduced around it's Life Cycle Impulse.
The defining factor however would be costs.

But even if it ever gets the greenlight, by the time it reaches showroom 3-4 years from now, the F10 would have been 4-5 years old and time for a new generation.

What's the point ?

Mercedes-Benz has just done the exact same thing with the forthcoming C-Klasse Coupe.
 
Yes, costs are crucial. However, a model like this should be rather cheap to develop... and it is needed as the 6-series seems to make further moves towards comfort orientation. Hopefully, a 5-series coupe could be quite a bit lighter than the sedan.
 
If the 6er moves upmarket towards the CL coupe and the 3er coupe has now a new opponent, the C Coupe, then BMW won't have any coupe in the 5er price range, while MB does have an E Coupe.

Yet, costs and therefor pricing is crucial. There's no point in a 5er coupe that costs almost the same as the 6er coupe. It also has to be cheap enough to attract buyers from the E coupe, which if I am not mistaken is cheaper than the E sedan?
 
It also has to be cheap enough to attract buyers from the E coupe, which if I am not mistaken is cheaper than the E sedan?

If you are right regarding the pricing of the E-class coupe, that is what BMW need to do too.

Not to bring up the old "The E-class coupe is a C-class"-debate again, but that might be one of the reasons behind the pricing.
 
:t-hands:



Not if there is a real 5-Series coupe offered. :t-hands:

A 5 Series coupe will just make the 6 Series coupe seem even more over priced. But it won't make people think the 6 Series coupe is all of a sudden a 7 Series coupe, just because BMW price it that way. :eusa_doh:
 
Then my final word is about the pricing.

If BMW be honest about pricing the 5er coupe , meaning not like how Merc is pricing its "E-class" coupe, then I will choose the 5er coupe over the "E-class coupe" any time.

At least it's a true mid size coupe, not a small size coupe pretending to be mid size.

But if the 6er moves "upmarket" (read : in price), then we have a new problem : a mid size coupe pretending to be CL competitor.

I'd prefer Audi's way of differentiating its coupes from its sedans by not using the same designation numbers. No A4 coupe or A6 coupe.
 

BMW

Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, abbreviated as BMW is a German multinational manufacturer of luxury vehicles and motorcycles headquartered in Munich, Bavaria, Germany. The company was founded in 1916 as a manufacturer of aircraft engines, which it produced from 1917 to 1918 and again from 1933 to 1945.
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)

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