Future of the MB & BMW V12 engines


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GTA45E

GTA45E

RPM Ruler
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Ok I have read in two magazine article say that BMW has killed the V12 760iL. I predicted Mercedes (sometime back) would do the same, maby.. this means there won`t be another S65 either if thay do..

So how does MB expect to compete with the upcoming Rolls models and the new Bently Flying Spur Speed version which musters 600hp.

Any news or opinions on this??
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

If that is true then they must be developing monstrous V8 TT engines with crazy output figures.
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

I dont think they will ditch the V12s as easily as BMW..
There is a tradition here
AMG might do it..its easy for them
But the S,CL and SL 600´s wont be going anywhere for a while..
Thats my prediction..
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

what tradition? if anything BMW has more of a V12 tradition being the first to develop a post war v12 in germany

these arguments are flawed, the valid arguments contain marketing, reseach, finances, global recession, fuel consumption in their wording mr artist ;)
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

^ The traidition
Well its easy MB sells more high end cars than BMW..
So its naturally more fitting for them to keep V12´s
And when they are sold in such low numbers.. they dont have to care about those arguments you just laid down..
Nor do they need to worry about deveoloping the V12´s much further..
Cause they are easily up to par with the competition..
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

This is gonna turn into MB vs BMW V12 war:D
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

The opinion I had during the beginning of the year still remain, the current V12 bi-turbo is a dinosaur and the SL65 BS was it's last time in the spot light. Everybody is redesigning their engines now and even Porsche, a sports manufacturer have chosen to revise all their engines in favor of fuel efficiency, even giving up the GT1 block which made the engine in the TT, GT3 and GT2 the most durable engine on the market.

AS much as I love the SL65 the engine is inefficient to the level that it will soon be very politically incorrect. Surely this doesn't mean that the there won't be any 600hp+ monsters on the market. With the 6.2l V8 to their disposal MB can easily add turbo chargers to it that would crank the power up to similar level as the the 6.5 V12. Further more using a V8 TT will bring down the weight of the car. I give the V12 max 2 years on the market. It will most definitely not make it to the new SL.

Here's a little insight from Nostradamus:

"Mercedes has already planned to build a new V-12 with direct injection, and 4 valves per cylinder, but that engine won't be ready for roughly 3 years, Aston Martin needs a V-12 right away, so they will make use of there V-12 for now, until a new AMG engine is ready for use. Every car that is currently carrying the twin-turbo 5.5 or 6.05 liter V-12 are slated to either carry a twin-turbo V-8 or another AMG developed engine. Maybach has opted for a twin-turbo V-10, which will be unique to Maybach, but this engine will feature direct injection MDS( Multi Displacement System cylinder deactivation) as well as large turbo chargers."
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

You guys remember thre F01 with quad tail pipes?

Right? That's the 2009 V12 BMW 760(L)i. And it is good Vabboud just stated that, because BMW makes the best V12 engines in the whole wide world.

GTA's magazines are clueless.
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

vabboud said:
what tradition? if anything BMW has more of a V12 tradition being the first to develop a post war v12 in germany

these arguments are flawed, the valid arguments contain marketing, reseach, finances, global recession, fuel consumption in their wording mr artist ;)
Click to expand...

And the most powerful one to date. :D

But I doubt either company is going to drop V12s in the near future.
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

I agree with the opinion that the AMG 65 cars are history, but not Mercedes' regular V12. A new V12 will appear at some point even if it has to shrink to 5.0 liters. I can't see Mercedes not having a V12.

BMW clearly doesn't have a V12 "tradition" like Mercedes. BMW can barely sell any V12s.


M
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

Who said that? Again, they don't have a V12 tradition like Mercedes-Benz.

M
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

In what way Mercedes Benz have a bigger V12 tradition ?
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

For one they sell a whole lot more of them. Secondly Mercedes' V12s are a serious upgrade over their V8s. BMW's V12s simply haven't been worth the money over their I6 and V8s. From the old 740iL, to the outgoing 745iL and 750iL. In recent times, BMW's V12s haven't mattered much at all, while Mercedes are sought after. Outside of the V12 in the F1 there really isn't much fanfare for a BMW V12 compared to a Mercedes V12. IMO part of what makes a tradition a tradition is adherence and acknowledgment to it. BMW simply doesn't have that with their V12s.


M
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

Do you have any numbers to compare sales ? cause BMW has been for a long period of time Number 1 V12 constructor. And how the helll can you say the BMW V12 isn't that good ? Based on what technical facts do you say that ? And what's this F1 thing ? Are you referring to Lemans engine ?
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

No numbers in front of me now, but this is well known fact. Any U.S. BMW dealer will tell you that can't move a V12. There is no way BMW builds more V12s than Mercedes. BMW has 1 car with a V12, a 7-Series. Mercedes has the SL, CL, S, and a few Maybachs. The S600 regularly outsells the 760iL in the U.S. by itself. BMW came out with a V12 for 1988, MB for 1992, a headstart, but not a "long time" as you put it. Again, I didn't say that BMW's V12 isn't any good, what I said was that it wasn't worth the upgrade over the V12, especially with the last generation 7-Series. From 740iL to 750iL was less than a 100hp upgrade, but way more money. Buyers passed. The SWB 760i flopped in the U.S. also and was pulled from the market. Now I'm talking about the V12 in the McLaren F1, which was one of the world's best engines. That is where BMW's V12 magic is IMO, not 760Li vs S600.

M
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

he meant the mclaren F1 V12 engine, which is undoubtly the best v12 ever constructed, and a strong contender for best engine ever constructed

but i have to say that the argumentation advanced by the mercedes fanbase is emotive at best. such a discussion requires hard facts, marketing research etc.....
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

MB has done a good job with their V12s, that is why an S600 is perceived as the pinnacle of luxury automobiles.
 
Re: Future of the V12-Powered Mercedes-Benz models.

Merc1 said:
No numbers in front of me now, but this is well known fact. Any U.S. BMW dealer will tell you that can't move a V12. There is no way BMW builds more V12s than Mercedes. BMW has 1 car with a V12, a 7-Series. Mercedes has the SL, CL, S, and a few Maybachs. The S600 regularly outsells the 760iL in the U.S. by itself. BMW came out with a V12 for 1988, MB for 1992, a headstart, but not a "long time" as you put it. Again, I didn't say that BMW's V12 isn't any good, what I said was that it wasn't worth the upgrade over the V12, especially with the last generation 7-Series. From 740iL to 750iL was less than a 100hp upgrade, but way more money. Buyers passed. The SWB 760i flopped in the U.S. also and was pulled from the market. Now I'm talking about the V12 in the McLaren F1, which was one of the world's best engines. That is where BMW's V12 magic is IMO, not 760Li vs S600.

M
Click to expand...

I didn't say that you said the V12 isn't good but all what you are saying is that Merc V12 are better cause there more fuss about them and used in more variants. And concerning the number 1 constructor i maintain it, they were number 1 even after merc introduced its own V12, unfortunately i have lost numbers and sources but i will search for it. Now concerning the upgrade, it's not cause they didn't offer a sensible power upgrade that it's not worthy, V12 in big cars are wanted because of their caracter not because of raw numbers and the V12 in 760 introduced platinum worth innovations like valvetronic. BMW never fail with its engines.
 

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