Selective Colouring in Photo Comps

Bruce said:

Please take note: After a discussion with the other Moderators, we have decided that color selective/selecting will no longer be allowed. We feel that it gives an unfair advantage for those who haven't a clue as how to use such programs which allow you to do so.

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Just like those who do not have a DSLR are at a disadvantage??

Or just like those members who do not know how, or do not have the softare for enhancing: Levels, Curves, Colour Balance, Brightness/Contrast, and Hue/Saturation??

What are the Mods standpoint on these 2 issues??
Why not just ban any editing whatsoever if you want to have a pure photography competition?

Also, what about selective colour saturation?? (eg: increasing the saturation of the blue colour of the water in a beach photo) Is this editing technique allowed?


Also, I gotta give a thumbs down for the Mods lack of opening this topic up for discussion to the actual members who make these photo competitions so popular and interesting.

Re: Automotive Photo Comp #108

I for one applaud the change. I've always liked these competitions because the various rules and restrictions mean that people with very different levels of skill and equipment can compete against each other and anyone with a good shot has a chance of winning. In my opinion, allowing excessive editing takes away from all this.

Re: Automotive Photo Comp #108

Bruce said:

Please take note: After a discussion with the other Moderators, we have decided that color selective/selecting will no longer be allowed. We feel that it gives an unfair advantage for those who haven't a clue as how to use such programs which allow you to do so.

Other adjustments and effects (Color Selective) are not allowed to use in your picture.

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Aaaaah ****

Always have to suffer for the people that is below you some how.
That's why I hate society

Re: Automotive Photo Comp #108

I agree with beefer but, this should have been an open discussion with members that participate and not just moderators. Kind of disappointing to tell the truth.

Re: Automotive Photo Comp #108

MikeJ said:

I for one applaud the change. I've always liked these competitions because the various rules and restrictions mean that people with very different levels of skill and equipment can compete against each other and anyone with a good shot has a chance of winning. In my opinion, allowing excessive editing takes away from all this.

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Well I feel that this rule change only further widens the gap between those who have a DSLR and those who still use point-and-shoot cameras (P&S). As much as 'getting that great shot' could win you a competition here, there's no denying the ratio of DSLR-vs-P&S photo winners... DSLR's have been winning by a wide margin lately. No need for me to elaborate on the advantages that DSLRs have over P&S, so that only makes the playing field even more uneven. Being able to do selective colour editing at least gave P&S photographers an avenue to compete with the impressive quality of DSLR photos.


If the moderators want this to be a 100% pure photography competition, then no editing at all should be allowed...but I feel that be allowing editing such as selective colouring and even HDR allows photographers to express their own artistic take on a photo. Neither of these techniques which have been criticised here a bit actually modify what's actually in the photo (ie: they don't remove people/objects from the photo or do PS chops like we see with spy photos)... it's all just about enhancing a photo to reflect the photographers artistic impression of what they feel as an interesting image.

I know MikeJ has been it clear in the past that he doesn't understand or like photos which have selective colouring... and that's fine, because in his mind that's not artistic or appealing... but in my mind, the technique of selective colouring (and also HDR) is interesting and it is artistic without actually manipulating what the original photo or scene included. Selective colouring is simply just a change in the level of saturation of some colours... it's not some high-tech' manipulative technique that involves expert knowledge.

If the Mods arguement is that selective colouring is unfair to those who are unable do utilise the technique, then I say it's unfair that having to compete with DSLR photos is unfair to those who do not have such a camera.

Seems like just a few people started whinging about selective colouring, and now the Mods have made an executive decision to ban this technique..... and again I'll say it's quite pathetic that such a decision was made without even considering the varying opinion of those members who actually contribute to these comps.

Re: Automotive Photo Comp #108

DaSilva said:

Aaaaah ****

Always have to suffer for the people that is below you some how.
That's why I hate society

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I agree Julius! They just seem to cry poor and expect things to change in their favour due to their laziness or jealousy.

For those people who find this unfair, ... why don't they try to learn this technique IF they feel it enhances a photo. If they don't feel it enhances a photo, then they should feel confident enough about their own photos and just leave it at that.

What exactly brought about this decision from the Mods?

Re: Automotive Photo Comp #108

Beemer B773ER said:

What exactly brought about this decision from the Mods?

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Honestly, i have no idea since i rarely participate in photo competitions due to my dreadful skills and lack of knowledge with software and cameras. Therefore i don't participate in taking decisions about rules or anything as well.

Kindly PM Bruce or Jeff (Choleric) and ask them about it. I really have no clue, if i knew something i'd try to help.

Re: Automotive Photo Comp #108

Beemer B773ER said:

Well I feel that this rule change only further widens the gap between those who have a DSLR and those who still use point-and-shoot cameras (P&S). As much as 'getting that great shot' could win you a competition here, there's no denying the ratio of DSLR-vs-P&S photo winners... DSLR's have been winning by a wide margin lately.

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I would think that in most cases that has more to do with the people using those cameras rather than the cameras themselves.

Beemer B773ER said:

If the moderators want this to be a 100% pure photography competition, then no editing at all should be allowed...

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That would be fine by me, but since it would be impossible to tell whether levels or curves or brightness or contrast have been slightly altered, I'd prefer the rules as they now are.

Beemer B773ER said:

I know MikeJ has been it clear in the past that he doesn't understand or like photos which have selective colouring... and that's fine, because in his mind that's not artistic or appealing... but in my mind, the technique of selective colouring (and also HDR) is interesting and it is artistic without actually manipulating what the original photo or scene included.

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Artistic perhaps, but is the art in question still photography, or something completely different? I'd prefer these competitions be won behind the camera rather than behind the computer screen, that's all. Besides, in my opinion, colour is something which definitely is included in the original scene.

Beemer B773ER said:

Seems like just a few people started whinging about selective colouring, and now the Mods have made an executive decision to ban this technique..... and again I'll say it's quite pathetic that such a decision was made without even considering the varying opinion of those members who actually contribute to these comps.

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You call it "whinging", I call it raising a valid point. Besides, unless I'm totally mistaken, selective colouring was originally banned in these competitions but somehow became allowed or at least tolerated without any sort of discussion, so in fact it's quite fitting that it gets banned the same way.

I feel that keeping this competition 'simple' encourages more people to participate and is in line with the friendly nature it originally had. Maybe some people have become too obsessed with winning to see this side of it.

Re: Automotive Photo Comp #108

Ok, this is way, way out of control. I'm afraid that as I have to go to work I do not have the time to write a lengthy response at the moment, but I will address more on the issue later today.

MikeJ said:

You call it "whinging", I call it raising a valid point. Besides, unless I'm totally mistaken, selective colouring was originally banned in these competitions but somehow became allowed or at least tolerated without any sort of discussion, so in fact it's quite fitting that it gets banned the same way.

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Right you are Mike. Selective colouring was not originally allowed but become sublty tolerated after an increase of photos which this specific modification.

Re: Automotive Photo Comp #108

Bruce said:

Right you are Mike. Selective colouring was not originally allowed but become sublty tolerated after an increase of photos which this specific modification.

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...and this was going along just fine with no one complaining about it (until a week or so ago when Ashok brought it up, but that was only because he hadn't participated here in a long while).... so what exactly was the turning point which made the Mods suddenly decide to cleanse these 'unpure' photo entries in these comps?

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Artistic perhaps, but is the art in question still photography, or something completely different? ... Besides, in my opinion, colour is something which definitely is included in the original scene.

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But with selective colouring, you are simply increasing/decreasing the saturation of certain colours so as to emphasize parts of the photo (as I gave the example of increasing the saturation of the blue waters of a beach scene photo.. or emphasising the red lights of the rear of a car). So in a legitimate photo you increase or decrease the saturation of colours... and with selective colouring you're still increasing or decreasing the saturation of some colours. What's the big fuss??

In answering your question Mike,... no I don't think it's something 'completely different'.. the objects in the photo have not been manipulated, just the colours have by altering their saturation level.

I feel that keeping this competition 'simple' encourages more people to participate and is in line with the friendly nature it originally had.

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I think that restricting the boundaries will discourage some people because the usual suspects will continue to win the competitions. So if people want to talk about 'fairness', they should consider that point.

Maybe some people have become too obsessed with winning to see this side of it.

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Some people may well have... but the way I view it is that selective colouring provides another avenue for members to compete with those pros who have a DSLR and who have access to amazing cars (..and goodness knows how many people base their votes more on the car in the photo rather than the photo composition itself).
For those who have become too obsessed with winning, ... I don't know why they would reach that stage... there's nothing really to be gained from winning these comps.. no prizes or anything... just a little boost in their ego I guess.

Selective colouring, just like HDR, is simply another way of showcasing what I personally view as a striking and interesting photo.... nothing more, nothing less. The fact that the Mods have taken the step to ban this technique shows that they're taking it too seriously....and the only reason why they would take such a step is if some members started complaining about it... which then suggests that those members were taking it these competitions too seriously.

I mean think about it... if people do vote for a photo which has selective colouring, then great, it means they're impressed...but if a photo which has selective colouring does not win that week's competition, then that's fine just the same. If the voters don't mind it..and if the voters aren't always giving a selective-coloured photo the win.. then again I ask, what's the big fuss??

As I said, if some members are complaining about selective colouring (which I'm sure there were).. then those members are taking things too seriously.

Just remember, selective colouring is simply increasing or decreasing saturation of a colour in the photo. I'm still intrigued to hear why people view this 'technique' as unfair when hue/saturation enhancements are still A-okay.

Re: Automotive Photo Comp #108

I want to say my opinion on this..

First, GCF is not a photography forum, therefore mods and admin don't HAVE to know everything about it and sometimes might not be sure what to do.

The rules that we have today are rather old (2,5 years or more) and were copy/pasted here from another forum (Fast-Autos.net) with simply changing the size of the photo allowed to 1024x768.

Now, with the photo technology and post processing developing, these rules that we today have MIGHT not suit everybody's style, skills, equipment etc.
For example, HDR photography which is currently in question - it's becoming more and more popular today and I don't see anything wrong with allowing members to use it here. Of course, there's the other side of the story, the members with p&s can't really compete with such a photos. But let's not forget that many people entering the competitions are advanced amateurs and are seriously thinking about buying DSLR which will allow them to use such a techniques. There are many examples of that on GCF.

So, my logic tells me that we should rethink about keeping old rules and adopting some new ones into our competitions.

I'd like to hear moderators' opinion on this (Bruce, Jeff and others).

Also, what do the others think?

Discuss

Essentially argument FOR is:

A) It can potentially allow people without DSLRs to submit a photo to compete against well done unedited photos.

B) It is simply changing the saturation of certain parts of the photo not changing the photo itself

AGAINST is:

A) To much emphasis on the editing/photoshop process and not on the photograph itself

B) Less advanced users are at a disadvantage to those who are talented with photoshop

Much of what has been said can be found here: http://www.germancarforum.com/photography/26284-automotive-photo-comp-108-a.html

Re: Automotive Photo Comp #108

dOmInIX said:

I want to say my opinion on this..

First, GCF is not a photography forum, therefore mods and admin don't HAVE to know everything about it and sometimes might not be sure what to do.

The rules that we have today are rather old (2,5 years or more) and were copy/pasted here from another forum (Fast-Autos.net) with simply changing the size of the photo allowed to 1024x768.

Now, with the photo technology and post processing developing, these rules that we today have MIGHT not suit everybody's style, skills, equipment etc.
For example, HDR photography which is currently in question - it's becoming more and more popular today and I don't see anything wrong with allowing members to use it here. Of course, there's the other side of the story, the members with p&s can't really compete with such a photos. But let's not forget that many people entering the competitions are advanced amateurs and are seriously thinking about buying DSLR which will allow them to use such a techniques. There are many examples of that on GCF.

So, my logic tells me that we should rethink about keeping old rules and adopting some new ones into our competitions.

I'd like to hear moderators' opinion on this (Bruce, Jeff and others).

Also, what do the others think?

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I made a poll for this subject please direct any further discussion on rule changes there, http://www.germancarforum.com/photography/26316-selective-colouring-photo-comps.html


@Dominic, Yes the rules are old but for the most part they are effective, when we change them it has been via poll in the past and I think that is the best way to do this. Regarding HDR they should never be allowed in photo comps, unless it is in a seperate HDR specific photo competition.

My view has on this has kind of gone back and forth.

On the one hand I agree with Beemer and others in that all it is decreasing the saturation certain parts of the photo and if we want to get technical it is a capable process in traditional film developing techniques.

Then again it does significantly enhance the appeal of the photo, and is a maneuver in photoshop that many amateur photographers here do not know how or care to know how to do. It also places an emphasis on your computer/editing skills as opposed to your actual photography skills, which is what these photo comps are supposed to be about.

Besides all that, my personal opinion of it, I think selective colouring is kinda gay, something that a 18 year old girl does with her friends and posts on facebook trying to be "artistic." It just seems to cliche in most places.

But asisde from that I dont have an opinion on the matter as of yet for their place in the photo comps.

I voted YES because I feel it makes a photo interesting. There is definitely an impact on the viewer that is created by this technique.

However, just because selective coloring is allowed doesn't mean I will automatically vote for the image because there are many types of images that will make an impact in one way or the other. In fact some photos in these competitions that were clearly taken with a normal P/S digital camera have been very impressive and creative to me and have gotten my vote.

I tend to use it once in awhile when I feel a photo will look interesting with it, hence my vote for YES. Sometimes it is really hard to get that "right shot" because we're not professional photographers. We don't photograph because we have a schedule. We don't wait around in some exotic beach waiting for sundown so we can take those magic moment shots. We are in certain situations where we see something interesting and take a pictures and that means that often the lighting conditions aren't ideal, hence we brush the photo up a bit with photoshop or selective coloring. Another reason I voted for YES.

Oh, and if anyone wants lessons on how to do selective coloring in photoshop, let me know.

I voted yes, I'm a complete novice at PS (ie. I dont even know how to change color of car or change rims, or anything like that.) and I find it rediculously easy to do. And I might also want to enter some in the future if I ever get my other computer working.

I voted yes BUT I'm easy.

Using photoshop is also a skill..
So if someone is skilled he should not be held back
So yes from my side

I voted YES, too! This way we will see tons of excellent photographs! Talent should not be held back, as Artist said!

PS. I would really appreciate it if one of our photo(shop) experts would make a thread explaining some things about selective colouring and telling us how to do it

I wish I knew how to use PS, Im such a noob its scary. Either way, I dont think its a problem.