German Car Forum

Expect to see Mercedes with even more crazed power outputs some time soon - but AMG is also preparing a new range of super saloons that juggle clout with cleanliness. CAR Online has been given exclusive insight into the tuner's plans, which include new models, engines and even hybrids.

A mere 12 months after the launch of the acclaimed high-revving big-bore V8, AMG is tweaking its engine philosophy again. Why? Because the 6.2-litre unit lacks power and torque compared to the now defunct 5.5-litre Kompressor motor.

AMG engines lack power and torque, you say? Are you mad?!

Yes, we'd rarely call any AMG product under-nourished, but these guys at Affalterbach have a different take on brutality. They point out that the latest 6.2 has horrendous full-throttle consumption and emission figures. And it's telling that Audi and BMW are also about to abandon their normally aspirated bent eights.

To eclipse the successful supercharged engine, AMG is now developing a twin-turbo 5.0-litre variant good for around 570bhp and 665lb ft of torque. AMG being AMG, there's also an even meatier 700bhp/885lb ft version of this motor to replace the 612bhp V12. The ESP systems of Germany are going to be troubled with alarming frequency...

Hybrid AMGs - fast and frugal

AMG hasn't got its head in the sand. It knows it must respond to the changing zeitgeist and so there will be a hybrid edition of the new V8, labelled BluePower. It is not quite clear yet whether the Swabians will use the Flybrid system by X-Trac (a flywheel spinning at 60,000rpm in a vacuum producing mechanical energy), or a more conventional approach featuring a 100bhp electric motor integrated in the transmission housing.

Both applications are clearly performance-oriented, offering substantial on-demand overboost as well as restricted zero-emission capability. Another innovation worth mentioning is a new electrically operated direct-drive gearbox which is much faster and more efficient than any conventional slushmatic.

AMG and the environmental question

Wolf Zimmerman, R&D boss at AMG, recently told CAR that the very philosophy of AMG is changing. 'We're almost at the top in terms of power now,' he said. 'There's something in the pipeline, but we're nearly at the top. Then cars will become less powerful.

'As an engineer, I'm excited by the challenge of meeting ecological targets, but as an enthusiast I'm also sad. In the future there won't be any cars like the S65. How can there be? If we fit direct injection and stop/start and every eco device, we could maybe cut emissions to 240g/km. But how are we going to then halve them again? We need to cut weight but customers are not willing to sacrifice any of the luxury and safety equipment.'

Aren't Mercedes developing more and more powerful cars themselves?

They certainly are. What irks the AMG boys is the fact that Mercedes AG is also preparing a number of sophisticated turbocharged V8s with a displacement of 4.0, 4.6 and 5.5 litres - and power outputs of 355, 435 and 544bhp. The two companies appear to be on a collision course...

AMG chief Volker Mornhinweg is on record claiming that his go-faster Mercs will boast a combined 40 percent reduction in CO2 emissions by 2012. That´s incidentally also the year the first plug-in hybrid wearing an AMG badge is due to go on sale.

Some of those CO2 cuts could come from diesel, of course. Forget the ho-hum C30 AMG - backing derv engines is a huge opportunity for AMG. However, CAR Online understands there is currently no active programme, which might be a mistake in view of the parent brand´s undisputed competence in this area.

Hybrids, diesels.... surely AMG will still produce some mad cars, won't it?

You bet. Coming hot on the heels of today's brawny SL63 AMG and ML63 AMG is the rather mental SL Black Series. You can read our latest scoop on fixed-head SL here, but suffice to say it will weigh 260kg less than its coupe-cabriolet base model and its uprated turbo V8 has a prodigious 670bhp.

And the madness won't end there. In March 2010, AMG will finally unveil its gullwing coupe codenamed C197. It packs a transaxle drivetrain, eight-speed auto and the latest version of the high-revving 6.2-litre V8 into a sensuous new supercar shape.


Source: AMG's secret war chest | Secret New Cars | Car Magazine Online

Sounds really good. Ahh...you beat me by one minute posting this!

M

Sorry!

Np...its kinda fun to see who'll spot an article and post it first.

M

Yep, it is.

Nice article although I'm a bit doubtful about some of the info there. At least one mistake too. Here they say the SL Black Series has a V8-turbo while in the article where they link to they speak about the V12-turbo.

Very interesting, but it says one thing (power-war far from over, current AMG 'lack power") and its contrary (next AMG won't be as powerful and S65 type of cars are over)...

Now that AMG is no longer focused on chasing big horsepower numbers, efficiency is quickly become the new performance benchmark for the Affalterbach-based tuner. Not even exclusive performance firms like AMG are immune to the effects of stricter emissions and fuel economy standards being phased in over the next decade, so expect to see downsized engines, more diesels and even hybrid engines introduced by the performance house.

According to a new report, AMG will replace its still-new 6.2L V8 and 5.5L V12 twin-turbo engines with a brand new 5.0L V8 twin-turbo. There are several reasons behind the decision: the new 6.2L has horrendous fuel consumption at full throttle and it lacks the low-end grunt of the previous supercharged 5.5L V8.

There will be several versions of the new force-fed 5.0L mill, a base version with 570hp and 665lb-ft of torque to replace the 6.2L V8 and a high-output 700hp/885lb-ft unit to replace the 612hp V12. There will also be a hybrid variant dubbed ‘BluePower’. Other innovations include a new electrically operated direct-drive gearbox that provides faster and more efficient gearshifts than the current range of automatics.
One of the last cars to feature the current 6.2L engine will be the upcoming SLC gullwing supercar due in 2010 (pictured below). It will feature a transaxle drivetrain, eight-speed auto and a power output in excess of 600hp.
motorauthority

Well the 6.2L V8 didn't last long did it!

I suppose environment concerns are changing the automotive industry. Interesting how it says MB aren't chasing big bhp numbers, will they are still making an engine which outputs 700bhp, bit ironic!

cool im looking forward to this

it will take years to get it to market, so the 6.2 should have a decent run. Mercedes usually runs only about 7 years before they rework their engine line-up.

What a poor excuse to replace a fine engine. It gets poor fuel consumption at wide open throttle LOL, who wrote this article an 8 year old? Something tells me a person isn't too concerned with fuel economy if:

A) They buy a performance vehicle with a big engine.
B) Are able to afford a performance vehicle with a big engine.
C) Decide to drive it at WOT.

I expect BMW to go the same way.
Now if only these engines would rev a little, like say ......... 20000 rpms.

interesting news and I can see where they are coming from. The Fuel prices have almost doubled in the last 6 months over here and they are still going to increase further. Fuel economy is becoming a growing concern all over the world.

I knew this was coming. I`ve been reading the new CAFE standards for 2012, thay are pushing the new standard to 27.5 mpg. If car companies don`t meet these new standards thay will pay a very heavy fine!

These new standards will affect the entire automotive industery in one way or another, it will soften the hp war to. Most all companies are considering smaller Displacement engines in the coming 5-years, not just AMG. (Ford is considering a new bi-turbo 6 to replace the V8 in the Mustang)

I also had the feeling AMG would replace the Bi-Turbo V12 with a V8 in the S65. If thay do thay should make the displacement a little larger than just 5.0liters.

Funny.....from the article...


'Now that AMG is no longer focused on chasing big horsepower numbers..'

...

'There will be several versions of the new force-fed 5.0L mill, a base version with 570hp and 665lb-ft of torque to replace the 6.2L V8 and a high-output 700hp/885lb-ft unit to replace the 612hp V12.'

No way AMG is going to give up hp. They say they aren't chasing hp numbers, yet the speculative numbers kill anything out there. Typical.

M

True, but AMG is different.. Thay usually run about 4-5 years before thay get replaced. (There are few exceptions.)

The V12 in the 65 AMG -models is actually a 6.0-liter. The 6.2 L V8 is the biggest by displacement in Mercedes' engine range (excl. the Zonda engine of course):

SLK 55/G 55/SLR: 5.4-liter V8

500 (550 in some markets) -models: 5.5-liter V8

600-models: 5.5-liter V12

65 AMG -models: 6.0-liter V12

63 AMG -models: 6.2-liter V8

Why would they replace their 6.2L V8? the 6.2 is like a gem to AMG and its only 2 years old. its ok the replace the other engines but not this!

i will absolutly guttered if they replaced this.

Well there are even rumours of the 2.0 litre turbo four pot being available in the still upcoming Camaro. As long as we don't end up seeing things as less than 200 horses from a huge V8 engine, I'm fine with it.

Family_Guy - this 5.0L AMG V8 is still some years off. Most likely it will come with the next generation E-Class, when it gets a facelift and when the next S-Class appears. The current 6.2L V8 will get direct-injection and other tricks before htey downsize and turbocharge it.

M

Backing the hp wars and then 700hp+ car that is hilarious!

A five-litre V8 (capable of those numbers) with two turbochargers will drink as much fuel as a 6.2 litre NA V8 at full throttle.

^obviously they will work it out so it doesent..