CAR september issue: M3 vs rivals
- Thread starter Zafiro
- Start date
Bruce
Kraftwagen König
Indeed it would be; they are two favourite vehicles here though.
I'd most definitely have the GT3, but if I was going to choose one of the more pratical vehicles with the GT3, I'd choose either the M3 or RS4.
Mr Robert
Kraftwagen König
^^
Agreed! The R8 should be in a dark colour, most of the R8:s I have seen have been in black or very dark grey. This colour just does not work for me.
I wonder if they have been smoking pot over at CAR... or do they suck at sourcing vehicles for tests and this is what they came up with.. surprised not to find a S-class and a Q7 in the test
Agreed! The R8 should be in a dark colour, most of the R8:s I have seen have been in black or very dark grey. This colour just does not work for me.
I wonder if they have been smoking pot over at CAR... or do they suck at sourcing vehicles for tests and this is what they came up with.. surprised not to find a S-class and a Q7 in the test
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
Here is the test 
Car Review
-----------------------------
lame test, regarding M3 vs RS4 they are saying exactly the same in this test as they said in the review. They are just repeting themselves and not adding anything new to this test. This test is from spain, marbella.
See for yourself, same black RS4 and M3 and same comments:
https://www.germancarforum.com/threads/carmagazine-m3-v-s-rs4-cabrio.16051/
Car Review
-----------------------------
lame test, regarding M3 vs RS4 they are saying exactly the same in this test as they said in the review. They are just repeting themselves and not adding anything new to this test. This test is from spain, marbella.
See for yourself, same black RS4 and M3 and same comments:
https://www.germancarforum.com/threads/carmagazine-m3-v-s-rs4-cabrio.16051/
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
On the first page they admit they done the new M3 softer and more for the american market. 
Quote on Klaus Dräger:
"About 50% of the production will be sold in North America. US customers like the classic manual gearbox and they don't accept an overly firm ride.
Thats why the new M3 is a sporty GT, not a track racer in disguise"
Quote on Klaus Dräger:
"About 50% of the production will be sold in North America. US customers like the classic manual gearbox and they don't accept an overly firm ride.
Thats why the new M3 is a sporty GT, not a track racer in disguise"
VroomVroom
Autotechnik Ace
Audi RS4 and the m3 for me please
Mr Robert
Kraftwagen König
On the first page they admit they done the new M3 softer and more for the american market.
Quote on Klaus Dräger:
"About 50% of the production will be sold in North America. US customers like the classic manual gearbox and they don't accept an overly firm ride.
Thats why the new M3 is a sporty GT, not a track racer in disguise"
Would it not be best to build two different specifications regarding suspension then? Pitty that the European market has to stand down in favor of the US market. As said before this is not a very good review - sort of lame.
This makes me wonder if the US will get the CSL at all (any news on that model would, by the way, be greatly appreciated!).
rev
Headlight Hero
White is brilliant but so is this...Yep, that blue doesn't fit the R8. I believe white is the answer. It looks soooo hot!
...!
Merc1
Premium
Edmunds Inside Line - 2008 BMW M3 Takes On All Challengers
Across Spain in a 2008 BMW M3, VW Golf GTI, Audi RS4, Porsche 911 GT3 and Audi R8
Before we begin, you should know a few things.
One: This is not a comparison test.
Two: Because this is not a comparison test, we did not run the 2008 BMW M3, Audi R8, Audi RS4, Porsche 911 GT3 and VW Golf GTI through our battery of track tests (slalom, 0-60 mph acceleration, etc.). Although we have tested the Audi RS4, Audi R8, Porsche 911 GT3 and Volkswagen Golf GTI in previous contests, this time we just climbed in and drove the bunch flat out through the Spanish mountains. All impressions are straight from our seat pants and not from our elaborate electronic testing gear.
Three: We're well aware that these five cars are not direct rivals. The only sort of guy who buys a $25,000 hot hatch when he can afford a supercar either lost his wife to a cad in a Countach or is one of those weirdos they find dead at 87 with three tins of value beans in the cupboard and $2 million in the bank.
But there's actually a very obvious link between the Audi R8, Audi RS4, Porsche 911 GT3 and Volkswagen Golf GTI, a very good reason for bringing them to face the new 2008 BMW M3, and it's simply that these are some of our very favorite cars, from hot hatch to supercar. They each do a different job but, crucially, they all do a job that BMW's M3 reckons it can do, too.
That's always been the thing about the M3, or certainly the recently departed E46 version: It's so many cars to so many people, and all at the same time. It's the car hot-hatch drivers aspire to own: discreet and practical like their rides, but with enough guts to worry supercars on real roads — something not lost on those who could stretch to an exotic but wonder if they really need anything more than an M3 after all. Historically it's been the best performance car money can buy.
So we thought we'd welcome the new car by throwing it in at the deep end. In concrete shoes. I mean, look at what it's up against.
The Wild Bunch
Audi's sensational midengine R8, a cut-price Lambo with a 414-horsepower V8 but so much refinement you wouldn't think twice about using it every day.
Then there's the best 911 we've driven for years: the GT3, a car that clearly spent some time at finishing school in the transition from 996 to 997 generations because it's now barely less civilized than a regular Carrera.
And we couldn't leave out the Audi RS4, the M3's key rival and quite possibly the reason BMW pushed on to V8 power. Yes, we know the sedan version would have been the better choice for comparison, but Audi could only provide a cabrio on the day. Well, it suited the sunny weather.
Mechanically, these cars could be brothers: Both have V8s up front packing around four liters (4.2 in the RS4, 4.0 in the M3), both producing exactly 420 hp with which to inflict grievous harm on their driveshafts. In the Audi's case, that pain is spread across all four wheels, while the M3 tortures the rears alone but has that clever M-differential to lend a hand.
For now both are old-style manuals only. BMW is working on a dual-clutch semiauto to replace the old M3's optional SMG box and Porsche will have one soon, too, but the RS4 will go to its grave with clutch pedal firmly in place: The longitudinal layout means the TT's S-Tronic (DSG in old-speak) won't fit and a proper auto couldn't cope with the 8,000 rpm-plus capability of the V8.
Of the two, the Audi has the more positive shift, the BMW retaining that long-throw, old-fashioned BMW feel. But it's clearly no impediment to performance: BMW says the M3 will hit 62 mph in 4.8 seconds, exactly what Audi claims of the RS4 sedan. Little surprise when just 11 pounds separates them (Audi 3,638 pounds, BMW 3,649); Audi says the 430-pound-lardier cabrio needs just a 10th longer.
Let the Fun Begin
Although they're close against the clock, that extra weight and the awful effects on rigidity of carving off the top ruin the RS4's chances of scalping the M3.
On roughly surfaced Spanish mountain roads, the RS4 wobbles like a newborn calf, but puts its power down cleanly while the M3's traction light blinks stroboscopically, even if the wheels never actually lose purchase sufficiently to ruin forward progress without provocation. Sideways is on the menu — this is an M3 — but it's nearer the back now and you'll find yourself having to munch a starter of stabilizing understeer first.
Yet there are lessons even the RS4 cabrio can teach the M3, such as how to make an interior feel special enough to match the expectations of your most prized badge. (It's all in the dressing because, beneath the incredible seats and flat-bottomed wheel, the A4 cabin looks pretty dated.)
And, more surprisingly, lessons BMW has been handing out to Audi for years — how to make a car ride well and how to make it steer. The RS4 is both more comfortable and steers more positively than the M3, particularly just off the straight-ahead where the Audi rack's weighting generates confidence that the overlight BMW's cannot.
Call 911
But if it's a lesson in steering you want, the GT3's your car. For immediacy of response, weight and genuine feel, nothing here gets close. Matched to near-impeccable body control, it means you can swing from lock to lock on the Ronda road above Marbella without breaking a sweat. It's almost disconcerting at first, so hardwired are your hands into what's happening up front.
The brakes (in this case optional PCCB ceramics) are sharp and decisive to match, and only the slightly heavy, notchy gearshift — it requires a little too much concentration in the heat of action — gets it wrong.
Once it was simple. The GT3 was your track-day nut's car, edgy and uncompromised, and the Turbo was your road-going hero. But now Porsche has tamed the $106,000 GT3's manners without diluting any of the drama, it's become an everyday proposition, a far more appealing car than the pricier Turbo and a serious alternative to an M3.
With the PASM switchable dampers set to "4normal," the GT3 is astonishingly civilized. OK, so this one's got the ClubSport package that brings a half-cage instead of rear seats and some seriously grippy buckets up front, but you can have an ordinary interior instead and still enjoy the same 410-hp naturally aspirated 3.6-liter flat-6 whose roots can be traced to Porsche's late-1990s Le Mans racers.
Porsche says it takes half a second out of the M3 to 60 mph and gets even sillier thereafter, right up to 192 mph. The noise is hard, mechanical and utterly addictive, but the 298 pound-feet torque peak doesn't turn up until 5,500 rpm has registered on the big central dial staring back at you through the Alcantara-trimmed wheel, so you can forget any thoughts of serious overtaking maneuvers in the top two gears.
Yet 3rd and 4th are epic cogs on quick A and B roads, taking you up to 140 mph and safely past errant M3s and RS4s. If it's pure involvement you're after, an ability to immerse you so deep in the experience you never want to surface for air, the GT3 is unstoppable. And good as the M3 is, it just can't compete. We'll have to wait for the M3 CSL for a true GT3 rival.
Full Article:
2008 BMW M3 Takes On All Challengers
M
Across Spain in a 2008 BMW M3, VW Golf GTI, Audi RS4, Porsche 911 GT3 and Audi R8
Before we begin, you should know a few things.
One: This is not a comparison test.
Two: Because this is not a comparison test, we did not run the 2008 BMW M3, Audi R8, Audi RS4, Porsche 911 GT3 and VW Golf GTI through our battery of track tests (slalom, 0-60 mph acceleration, etc.). Although we have tested the Audi RS4, Audi R8, Porsche 911 GT3 and Volkswagen Golf GTI in previous contests, this time we just climbed in and drove the bunch flat out through the Spanish mountains. All impressions are straight from our seat pants and not from our elaborate electronic testing gear.
Three: We're well aware that these five cars are not direct rivals. The only sort of guy who buys a $25,000 hot hatch when he can afford a supercar either lost his wife to a cad in a Countach or is one of those weirdos they find dead at 87 with three tins of value beans in the cupboard and $2 million in the bank.
But there's actually a very obvious link between the Audi R8, Audi RS4, Porsche 911 GT3 and Volkswagen Golf GTI, a very good reason for bringing them to face the new 2008 BMW M3, and it's simply that these are some of our very favorite cars, from hot hatch to supercar. They each do a different job but, crucially, they all do a job that BMW's M3 reckons it can do, too.
That's always been the thing about the M3, or certainly the recently departed E46 version: It's so many cars to so many people, and all at the same time. It's the car hot-hatch drivers aspire to own: discreet and practical like their rides, but with enough guts to worry supercars on real roads — something not lost on those who could stretch to an exotic but wonder if they really need anything more than an M3 after all. Historically it's been the best performance car money can buy.
So we thought we'd welcome the new car by throwing it in at the deep end. In concrete shoes. I mean, look at what it's up against.
The Wild Bunch
Audi's sensational midengine R8, a cut-price Lambo with a 414-horsepower V8 but so much refinement you wouldn't think twice about using it every day.
Then there's the best 911 we've driven for years: the GT3, a car that clearly spent some time at finishing school in the transition from 996 to 997 generations because it's now barely less civilized than a regular Carrera.
And we couldn't leave out the Audi RS4, the M3's key rival and quite possibly the reason BMW pushed on to V8 power. Yes, we know the sedan version would have been the better choice for comparison, but Audi could only provide a cabrio on the day. Well, it suited the sunny weather.
Mechanically, these cars could be brothers: Both have V8s up front packing around four liters (4.2 in the RS4, 4.0 in the M3), both producing exactly 420 hp with which to inflict grievous harm on their driveshafts. In the Audi's case, that pain is spread across all four wheels, while the M3 tortures the rears alone but has that clever M-differential to lend a hand.
For now both are old-style manuals only. BMW is working on a dual-clutch semiauto to replace the old M3's optional SMG box and Porsche will have one soon, too, but the RS4 will go to its grave with clutch pedal firmly in place: The longitudinal layout means the TT's S-Tronic (DSG in old-speak) won't fit and a proper auto couldn't cope with the 8,000 rpm-plus capability of the V8.
Of the two, the Audi has the more positive shift, the BMW retaining that long-throw, old-fashioned BMW feel. But it's clearly no impediment to performance: BMW says the M3 will hit 62 mph in 4.8 seconds, exactly what Audi claims of the RS4 sedan. Little surprise when just 11 pounds separates them (Audi 3,638 pounds, BMW 3,649); Audi says the 430-pound-lardier cabrio needs just a 10th longer.
Let the Fun Begin
Although they're close against the clock, that extra weight and the awful effects on rigidity of carving off the top ruin the RS4's chances of scalping the M3.
On roughly surfaced Spanish mountain roads, the RS4 wobbles like a newborn calf, but puts its power down cleanly while the M3's traction light blinks stroboscopically, even if the wheels never actually lose purchase sufficiently to ruin forward progress without provocation. Sideways is on the menu — this is an M3 — but it's nearer the back now and you'll find yourself having to munch a starter of stabilizing understeer first.
Yet there are lessons even the RS4 cabrio can teach the M3, such as how to make an interior feel special enough to match the expectations of your most prized badge. (It's all in the dressing because, beneath the incredible seats and flat-bottomed wheel, the A4 cabin looks pretty dated.)
And, more surprisingly, lessons BMW has been handing out to Audi for years — how to make a car ride well and how to make it steer. The RS4 is both more comfortable and steers more positively than the M3, particularly just off the straight-ahead where the Audi rack's weighting generates confidence that the overlight BMW's cannot.
Call 911
But if it's a lesson in steering you want, the GT3's your car. For immediacy of response, weight and genuine feel, nothing here gets close. Matched to near-impeccable body control, it means you can swing from lock to lock on the Ronda road above Marbella without breaking a sweat. It's almost disconcerting at first, so hardwired are your hands into what's happening up front.
The brakes (in this case optional PCCB ceramics) are sharp and decisive to match, and only the slightly heavy, notchy gearshift — it requires a little too much concentration in the heat of action — gets it wrong.
Once it was simple. The GT3 was your track-day nut's car, edgy and uncompromised, and the Turbo was your road-going hero. But now Porsche has tamed the $106,000 GT3's manners without diluting any of the drama, it's become an everyday proposition, a far more appealing car than the pricier Turbo and a serious alternative to an M3.
With the PASM switchable dampers set to "4normal," the GT3 is astonishingly civilized. OK, so this one's got the ClubSport package that brings a half-cage instead of rear seats and some seriously grippy buckets up front, but you can have an ordinary interior instead and still enjoy the same 410-hp naturally aspirated 3.6-liter flat-6 whose roots can be traced to Porsche's late-1990s Le Mans racers.
Porsche says it takes half a second out of the M3 to 60 mph and gets even sillier thereafter, right up to 192 mph. The noise is hard, mechanical and utterly addictive, but the 298 pound-feet torque peak doesn't turn up until 5,500 rpm has registered on the big central dial staring back at you through the Alcantara-trimmed wheel, so you can forget any thoughts of serious overtaking maneuvers in the top two gears.
Yet 3rd and 4th are epic cogs on quick A and B roads, taking you up to 140 mph and safely past errant M3s and RS4s. If it's pure involvement you're after, an ability to immerse you so deep in the experience you never want to surface for air, the GT3 is unstoppable. And good as the M3 is, it just can't compete. We'll have to wait for the M3 CSL for a true GT3 rival.
Full Article:
2008 BMW M3 Takes On All Challengers
M
BigBrompton
VW Bug Starter
my fav car im gettin it soon man
