Sequential and Manual

Bruce · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Imhotep Evil said:
1. Can an F1 inspired engine really be made for a manual ?!

Yes of course. The Carrera GT rings a bell.

Imhotep Evil said:
2. Wrong. Manuals are crap compared to sequentials. ~20 years of F1 prove that.

Just because a sequential transmission offer advantages doesn't automatically render conventional manuals as "crap"

PanterroR · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Bruce said:
Yes of course. The Carrera GT rings a bell.

Just because a sequential transmission offer advantages doesn't automatically render conventional manuals as "crap"

Right on, Bruce! :usa7uh:

Now, check IE jumping in and giving both you and me some history lessons.

Imhotep Evil · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Bruce said:
Yes of course. The Carrera GT rings a bell.

Just because it's a V10, it's not necesarily a F1 inspired V10. More Le Mans I should think.

But just imagine how much better it could be with a semi-automatic. Tough with 590 Nm it's too much of a torque porker, and no sequential so far can take that amount of torque. Maybe some custom Ricardo dual clutch.

Just because a sequential transmission offer advantages doesn't automatically render conventional manuals as "crap"

For a performance car like an M5, with the S85 engine, a manual is crap since it's disadvantages (far) out-weight it advantages (if it has any).

Zafiro · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

the SMG was build around the M5 V10 engine so let the M5 have only SMG option. Next generation can have both versions though.

I have tried a manual golf and golf with DSG directly after each other. I cant say which I prefer or which I would choose. I would take some time to think it over.
There is one feature both SMG and DSG offer that you won't find in a manual, its the rev or gas that sounds when you downshift. Its like a bike, its so cool and that feature alone is a reason why picking a SMG or DSG over manual. You feel like a racingdriver :usa7uh:

Bruce · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Imhotep Evil said:
Just because it's a V10, it's not necesarily a F1 inspired V10. More Le Mans I should think.

But just imagine how much better it could be with a semi-automatic. Tough with 590 Nm it's too much of a torque porker, and no sequential so far can take that amount of torque. Maybe some custom Ricardo dual clutch.

But that's race inspired is it not? I don't care if we're talking F1 or LeMans..

I couldn't care if the Carrera GT is only manual as it serves it's purpose mighty well.

Imhotep Evil said:
For a performance car like an M5, with the S85 engine, a manual is crap since it's disadvantages (far) out-weight it advantages (if it has any).

When it comes to the M5, I agree.

Imhotep Evil · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Bruce said:
But that's race inspired is it not? I don't care if we're talking F1 or LeMans..

I couldn't care if the Carrera GT is only manual as it serves it's purpose mighty well.

Probably they couldn't fit a dual clutch in time. Race inspired yes, 1890s race inspired not 21th century F1 race inspired, nor even 1980s Le Mans race inspired (that's when Porsche used dual clutch on their sport-prototypes witch they gave to Audi too; and when Ferrari brought the sequential to F1).

[quotee] When it comes to the M5, I agree.[/QUOTE]

Every M should be like that or better, particularily since the V8 is the S85 -2 cylinders.

Bruce · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Imhotep Evil said:
Probably they couldn't fit a dual clutch in time.

That is truthfully the reason. Porsche admitted to that being the reason why the CGT did not have a dual clutch transmission of some sort. Having said that I'm happy the Carrera GT came with a manual and I know many more who agree.

Imhotep Evil said:
Race inspired yes, 1890s race inspired not 21th century F1 race inspired, nor even 1980s Le Mans race inspired (that's when Porsche used dual clutch on their sport-prototypes witch they gave to Audi too; and when Ferrari brought the sequential to F1).

Oh Please

That's basically saying the Carrera GT is dated! That's ridiclous - the same could be said for Zonda,etc.

Imhotep Evil said:
Every M should be like that or better, particularily since the V8 is the S85 -2 cylinders.

The Z4M seems to manage perfectly fine with a conventional 6-speed. Now I'm not a hater when it comes to sequential transmissions - I have NO problem with them, but to start hating on conventional manuals because they aren't as "good" or as "up to date" is stupid.

Mind you, that's just my opinion. :t-cheers:

Imhotep Evil · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Nor the Carrera GT or Z4M are dated, just their transmissions are.

With a fancy semi-automatic they would be even better.

A manual is a poor man's transmission, the fancy semi-automatic, the only choice for special cars.

PanterroR · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Imhotep Evil said:
A manual is a poor man's transmission, the fancy semi-automatic, the only choice for special cars.

So till BMW presented their 1st SMG, all of their transmissions were poor man's?

With those poor man's transmission they've became Ultimate Driving Machines afaic, so no bitching about that please! Everything they've achieved in their Motorsport history you talk about very often was with poor man's transmission...

:t-cheers:

Bruce · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Imhotep Evil said:
Nor the Carrera GT or Z4M are dated, just their transmissions are.

With a fancy semi-automatic they would be even better.

"dated" or not, I still like manual transmissions.

Imhotep Evil said:
A manual is a poor man's transmission, the fancy semi-automatic, the only choice for special cars.

Certainly cannot agree with that. I'll be glad to stay a "poor man" anyhow.

Imhotep Evil · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

TycoonGTR said:
So till BMW presented their 1st SMG, all of their transmissions were poor man's?

With those poor man's transmission they've became Ultimate Driving Machines afaic, so no bitching about that please! Everything they've achieved in their Motorsport history you talk about very often was with poor man's transmission...

There were hardly any (mature) alternatives for production vehicles. I mean an automatic would have been too much for an M car.
Besides till the 1980s there hardly alternatives for race cars either.

But with the arrival and then improvement of the semi-automatic, there's no rational need for manuals on special cars.

It's only got to do with the "stick boy" = "only real driver" mentality born in the 1890s.

PanterroR · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Imhotep Evil said:
There were hardly any (mature) alternatives for production vehicles. I mean an automatic would have been too much for an M car.
Besides till the 1980s there hardly alternatives for race cars either.

You're a long time BMW fan, right? Were you saying this for manuals before SMG arrived? No, i'm sure you weren't. Why putting it down now?

My father, who drives a BMW for almost 30 years said: With BMW's manual, i'll never go for any other tranny. You know their history, he knows the car and everything about it. And he never said such thing.

Don't get me wrong, i'm just a little bit surprised with what you're saying. If there wasn't that masterpiece, F1 inspired V10, you'd never say such thing for BMW's manuals, i'm 100% sure.

Imhotep Evil said:
But with the arrival and then improvement of the semi-automatic, there's no rational need for manuals on special cars.

Of course, since the engines of today are thousand light years ahead of those before.

Imhotep Evil said:
It's only got to do with the "stick boy" = "only real driver" mentality born in the 1890s.

Lol!

Bruce · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Imhotep Evil said:
It's only got to do with the "stick boy" = "only real driver" mentality born in the 1890s.

What the hell does that mean? :t-hands:

Are you saying that prefering manual transmissions means I have a mentality stuck within the 1980's?

Imhotep Evil · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Not you necesarily, but the ones who belive so, particularily NA, are forcing companies like BMW M and Ferrari to compromise their engineering.

PanterroR · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Well, i agree with that and i can't believe that those forced BMW to do a complete MISTAKE! :t-crazy2:

bmer · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Bruce said:
What the hell does that mean?

Are you saying that prefering manual transmissions means I have a mentality stuck within the 1980's?

Nah, Grandpa, you're stuck in the last decade of the 19th century. You must be one of those racerboys who burned rubber with one of these:
Just spare us from telling how you riced your ride, ok? And don't talk about manuals because they were propably popular when you were young, that would be about the same decade when the wheel was invented... :bangin:

j/k, sorry...

PanterroR · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Lol, a little bit of fun doesn't hurt!

Good one, bmer! :usa7uh:

Imhotep Evil · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

TycoonGTR said:
You're a long time BMW fan, right? Were you saying this for manuals before SMG arrived? No, i'm sure you weren't. Why putting it down now?

My father, who drives a BMW for almost 30 years said: With BMW's manual, i'll never go for any other tranny. You know their history, he knows the car and everything about it. And he never said such thing.

Don't get me wrong, i'm just a little bit surprised with what you're saying. If there wasn't that masterpiece, F1 inspired V10, you'd never say such thing for BMW's manuals, i'm 100% sure.

Manuals were for a long time the best BMW or anyone else had to offer. Even
BMW's manuals were special, different from the poor man's manual.

As for the semi automatic + V10 it goes back to before I was BMW fan.

To the 1992 Williams Renault FW14B F1 car.
I still remember qualification on board footage of N. Mansell touching those, intriguing back then, paddles all on the symphony of the magnificent Renault V10 engine.
And then the race, the way that it could destroy the opposition and cut corners with unseen clinical precision (also thanks to the Active Suspension coupled with TC and ABS, on slicks).
And ofcourse again that magnificent V10 witch had more power than the V12s of Honda and Ferrari (not to mention it was smaller, lighter and less thirsty) so efficiently exploitated by the semi-automatic.
I had dreams about that car, sometimes I still do.

That draw me close to F1. I didn't knew a thing about BMW, but I knew about Williams and Renault.

So nothing to do with BMW, just my F1 freak-ness.

Of course, since the engines of today are thousand light years ahead of those before.

So should we compromise engines ?!

Imhotep Evil · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

That's why the M5.
Semi-automatic + V10 + fancy suspensions.

Perfect F1 formula.

PanterroR · May 18, 2007

Re: BMW fans - What is your favorite current BMW?

Imhotep Evil said:
So should we compromise engines ?!

Absolutely no! Read my post on the revious page about today's M5 manual version for NA! :t-banghea

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