UK/US Prices

[Betty Swollocks]

Carried over from the BMW forum.....

M5:
£73,065 - 645 (-VLF), x 0.8 (-VAT) = £57936 = $89,001. Compare to $89,900 US MSRP.

Your calculation is wrong. You do not multiply by 0.8 to get the net price before VAT. And also, you're including the VLF in the reduction as well, which is wrong.

To calculate the net price correctly you:

£73,065 - £645 = £72,420

Then,

£73,065 divided by 1.2 = £60,350.

To check this, you can do it the other way:

£60,350 x 1.2 = £73,065

+ £645 = £73,065

With regards the GBP to Dollar conversion, the rate according to xe.com means the UK M5 is:

$92,710

640i Gran Coupe
£61,390 - 645, x 0.8 = £48,589 = $74,653. Compare to $76,000 US MSRP.

Another calculation which is wrong.

But you've chosen some fringe players in the overall profit game for both countries.

I chose a random selection of cars, from entry level 1 Series to M5, to X5 M, to 640i GC.

Why not use an example that is more relevant to the overall profit margins.

328i
£29,065 - VAT/VLF = £22,736 = $34,927. Compare to $34,900. Big difference? Could be, in favor of US profit margins once you account for discounted 3-Series fleet/company sales in the UK.

Again, the base price in the UK for the 328i is £24,217, NOT what you say. You need to work on your maths my friend.

And £24,217 in USD is $37,202, NOT $34,927.


Get your facts straight before trying to cause arguments.

Big difference?

No, but there certainly is a bigger one now!

And where did I say there was a big difference? I said cars were cheaper in the U.S. than the UK. Simple as that.

 

[Guibo]

I said cars were cheaper in the U.S. than the UK. Simple as that.

You also said that the price listed on BMW UK isn't the price that one actually pays, due to discounting for company car/fleet rates.

 

[chonkoa]

The price differential has always been huge.
As I sarcastically responded to another post on a different thread, we(North Americans) complain because we hate paying too much for something.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

You also said that the price listed on BMW UK isn't the price that one actually pays, due to discounting for company car/fleet rates.

No I didn't! That was referring to the 7 Series specifically!

We're going round in circles. Every time I answer your point and prove you wrong, you go "yes, but". You asked me to show you the price difference of a 335i Luxury model between the UK and the US. I did better than that. I showed a random range of BMW models, and every one was more expensive in the UK. The M3 Coupe was $10,000 more expensive in the UK than the U.S. The X5 M was $20,000 more expensive in the UK. The M5, was $5,000 more expensive in the UK.

You then tried to correct me and superbly showed yourself up by getting your calculations wrong. Yet you still don't give up! Now you're talking about "discounting".

Do yourself a favour and just give it a rest. Know when it's time to give up. That time has long passed by the way.

The price differential has always been huge.
As I sarcastically responded to another post on a different thread, we(North Americans) complain because we hate paying too much for something.

Yeah Chonkoa, I guess I just have too much time on my hand. I don't think anything I say to Guibo is going to be good enough. I let him pick the car (335i Luxury) and I still proved him wrong. And this all stems from one PASSING comment I made saying that although the UK is a pretty small market, compared to the U.S. it's punching above its weight.

 

[Guibo]

No I didn't! That was referring to the 7 Series specifically!
Now you're talking about "discounting".

And is it now your assertion that only the 7 Series is discounted for fleet/company car sales?
I have been talking about discounting before. In fact, that is why I even bring up where you are getting your profit margin figures.

 

[Deckhook]

^Guibo,

I having been purchasing a new car every year since about 7 years ago but even before this I regularly changed more than the UK norm and you are correct that all not only the most expensive in the range are discounted. Here's my personal experience of the discounts I have received.

Audis : 6-7% is generally the discount I have been getting on usually very recent releases.

BMW : 9% on the M3 and offered 7.5% on a new 328i for the wife though ended up not pursuing that purchase.

Porsche : 1-1.6% between the Boxsters and Cayenne.

Jaguar : 9% on the XF

Volvo : 8%

VW : 9%


I would be interesting to hear what others get in their countries.

 

[Guibo]

Perhaps someone could check the maths on this.

UK prices - 645 (VLF), then divide by 1.2 for VAT.

335i cab UK price: £34,237 = $52,594 (US price: $53,800)
528i UK: £27,475 = $42,207 (US: $46,900)
535i UK: £31,925 = $49,043 (US: $52,500)
760Li UK: £84,300 = 129,501 (US: $137,000)
Z4 sDrive28i UK: £27,504 = $42,251 (US: $48,650)
Z4 sDrive35i UK: £32,354 = $49,701 (US: $55,150)
Z4 sDrive35i M Sport UK: £37,245 = $57,215 (US: $64,200)

 

[Betty Swollocks]

And is it now your assertion that only the 7 Series is discounted for fleet/company car sales?
I have been talking about discounting before. In fact, that is why I even bring up where you are getting your profit margin figures.

Why are you not talking about discounts in the U.S.?

 

[Guibo]

Why are you not talking about discounts in the U.S.?

Because as I said, we generally don't have schemes in place by corporations/fleets/gov't to incentivize the purchase of German luxury autos. Generally, there is a massive push near the end of the year to clear dealer stock on hand, but if you want a car ordered to your specification, it's not likely that a significant discount (if any) can be had. The bottom line seems to be that there does not appear to be meaningful differences in profit margins on either side. You can't just go by list prices because the fleet sales aspect muddies the comparison, and not favorably to the UK profit margin.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Perhaps someone could check the maths on this.

UK prices - 645 (VLF), then divide by 1.2 for VAT.

335i cab UK price: £34,237 = $52,594 (US price: $53,800)
528i UK: £27,475 = $42,207 (US: $46,900)
535i UK: £31,925 = $49,043 (US: $52,500)
760Li UK: £84,300 = 129,501 (US: $137,000)
Z4 sDrive28i UK: £27,504 = $42,251 (US: $48,650)
Z4 sDrive35i UK: £32,354 = $49,701 (US: $55,150)
Z4 sDrive35i M Sport UK: £37,245 = $57,215 (US: $64,200)

It's a good job I taught you how to calculate the figures correctly isn't it?

So you've actually taken the time to find every possible example of where the price is higher in the U.S. have you? How does this prove anything? There are anomolies to every rule. You weren't happy when I did what you asked and calculated the 335i Luxury and showed you it is more expensive in the UK. There are many examples of cars that are higher in the UK. The post was deleted in the other thread. Some were over $20,000 cheaper in the U.S. The M3 is $10,000 cheaper in the U.S.

335i cab UK price: £34,237 = $52,594 (US price: $53,800)

Yes, and the coupe is £30,380 ($46,670) in the UK and $45,100 in the U.S. There are many other examples that prove the UK prices are higher. You've found a few anomolies.

You just won't leave it will you? You keep trying to find the slightest possible way to win the argument. You're like a dog with a bone and I'm amazed you still have the energy.

Oh, and I wondered why there were no X5 or X6 models mentioned by you, so I thought I'd take a look to see what the price difference is there. No doubt if they were more expensive in the U.S. than the UK you would tell me about it. Sure enough, this is what I found.....


X5 50i
UK = £46,521 = $71,466
US = $64,200

$7,266 cheaper in the U.S.

X5 M
UK = £68,871 = $105,800
US = $88,850

$16,950 cheaper in the U.S.

X6 35i
UK = £39,084 = $60,040
US = $59,800

$240 cheaper in the U.S.

X6 50i
UK = £47,721 = $73,309
US = $70,400

$2,909 cheaper in the U.S.

X6 M
UK = £70,887 = $108,896
US = $92,900

$15,996 cheaper in the U.S.


I knew there was a reason.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Because as I said, we generally don't have schemes in place by corporations/fleets/gov't to incentivize the purchase of German luxury autos. Generally, there is a massive push near the end of the year to clear dealer stock on hand, but if you want a car ordered to your specification, it's not likely that a significant discount (if any) can be had. The bottom line seems to be that there does not appear to be meaningful differences in profit margins on either side. You can't just go by list prices because the fleet sales aspect muddies the comparison, and not favorably to the UK profit margin.

The average discount for European cars is around 7.7%.

Newly launched cars don't really attract discounts in the U.S., but the same is also true in the UK for just launched cars.

Last year BMW were discounting a lot in the U.S.

"However, the current market has many BMWs selling at thousands of dollars below the manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP)."

http://autos.aol.com/gallery/best-bmw-deals/

 

[Guibo]

So you've actually taken the time to find every possible example of where the price is higher in the U.S. have you? How does this prove anything? There are anomolies to every rule. You weren't happy when I did what you asked and calculated the 335i Luxury and showed you it is more expensive in the UK. There are many examples of cars that are higher in the UK. The post was deleted in the other thread. Some were over $20,000 cheaper in the U.S. The M3 is $10,000 cheaper in the U.S.

This was never in question, was it?
So you've found some more expensive in the UK, and I've found some more expensive in the US. BMW prices are not consistently higher in the UK than in the US. Fleet/lease rates are not an anamoly in the UK. I'm pretty sure the X5/3er/5er police cars (which you would likely never see in the US), have razor thin margins on them compared to what a customer car (usually with options) would cost. From this, you really can't conclude that the profit margins in the UK are higher. They may be. They might not be. You really can't tell just from the listed prices. It's kind of interesting that every car that you picked at random turned out to be more expensive. And $240? C'mon now. It's not like that couldn't swing massively toward the US profit margin once the fleet discount is considered.

Newly launched cars don't really attract discounts in the U.S., but the same is also true in the UK for just launched cars.
Last year BMW were discounting a lot in the U.S.
"However, the current market has many BMWs selling at thousands of dollars below the manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP)."
http://autos.aol.com/gallery/best-bmw-deals/

Yet Deckhook said he can find discounts on very recent releases.
Right, but that's last year. Notice how many of those BMWs are either at ends of the price range (7-Series hybrid) or being discontinued (E9x 3ers). The UK practice of fleet sales discounts has been going on for how many years/decades now.

"You're like a dog with a bone and I'm amazed you still have the energy."
We've been warned to keep the personal remarks/insults to a minimum. Again, do note that you are replying to me post for post, so what does that make you?

 

[Betty Swollocks]

"You're like a dog with a bone and I'm amazed you still have the energy."
We've been warned to keep the personal remarks/insults to a minimum.

You have a very strange idea of what constitutes an "insult".

If you're not happy with me saying you're like a dog with a bone, please feel free to report me.

 

[Guibo]

What, and get another thread cleaned/closed? I think, like most other forum members here, you can post civilly without referencing people to dogs (despite the fact that you're answering me post for post). Am I wrong to think so, or is this too much to ask?

 

[Betty Swollocks]

What, and get another thread cleaned/closed? I think, like most other forum members here, you can post civilly without referencing people to dogs

Oh for God's sake. It's a common saying which means somebody who will not give in. You're actually taking it literally?

Please, I beg you. Report me for saying you're like a dog with a bone, and while you're at it, report me for saying you're like the Duracell bunny. Trust me, there will be no thread getting cleaned because of that!

This is the most bizarre incidence of someone getting offended I have ever come across.

 

[Giannis]

there will be no thread getting cleaned because of that!

I am tempted actually, but it's 4.30am right now, and after a few Tanqueray with lemon juice, I'm not sure I'll hit the right buttons.

I hope I won't read any more dog/bone and Duracell/bunny remarks when I wake up on Sunday morning at 3pm.

Thanks and good night.



PS. I was very curious to see if this scheme would continue after the cleaning I did in the other thread. Otherwise I'd go straight to bed

 

[Deckhook]

Please explain why Value Added Tax isn't included it the UK prices, surely the actual amount an individual pays is the important thing?

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Please explain why Value Added Tax isn't included it the UK prices, surely the actual amount an individual pays is the important thing?

Because several days ago I made some passing comment (!) in response to Sunny being patronising about your "tiny little island" being insignificant, and I said that although the UK doesn't sell as many BMW's as the U.S., per head of population it sells a lot more and most likely has a higher profit margin than the U.S. because BMW's are MORE EXPENSIVE than the U.S. Ever since then, Guibo has been giving me little tasks to try and prove it, of which I have happily done, hence the tax is irrelevant.

 

[Deckhook]

^Thanks Betty, I must have missed that and it explains why the VAT isn't part of the argument.

P.S.
Has all of these price comparisons allowed for the differences in standard spec?

 

[Guibo]

Because several days ago I made some passing comment (!) in response to Sunny being patronising about your "tiny little island" being insignificant, and I said that although the UK doesn't sell as many BMW's as the U.S., per head of population it sells a lot more and most likely has a higher profit margin than the U.S. because BMW's are MORE EXPENSIVE than the U.S. Ever since then, Guibo has been giving me little tasks to try and prove it, of which I have happily done, hence the tax is irrelevant.

But you haven't. You said the prices were consistently higher. There are quite a few examples where the prices are higher in the US. On top of that, there is the issue of fleet/company discounts, which are the norm for the UK, but the rare exception in the US.
Sunny's comment was that what happens in the UK is not likely to drive BMW's EV strategy overall (to make the i3 a viable product), and probably not in the face of massive increases in sales in China (or a huge market like America), where the government seems to takes a very different approach with respect to EVs and diesel.