Sport Auto - Nordschleife laptimes

[Mafalda]

Not necessarily, since Ferrari modified the gearbox- and suspension-setup of the 458 for the 2012 Modellyear. Horst von Saurma managed the 7.38 min laptime with the MY2010 Italia.

ALSO, I'm almost sure there was a small "upgrade" already in late 2010.
the first hotlaps (QR, Sport auto), in spring 2010, 458 was a bit disappoinment, after the summer (still on Pilot Sport 2), 458 was faster (Ex. Autobild, Auto (it) )

 

[Levi68]

....Maybe cause some claims are more realistic than others...?

What means realistic? GT-R times are unrealistic but they are real.

 

[DeDe]

8.05 min - BMW M5 F10


The M5 on Pilot Super Sports is 13 seconds slower than the Panamera Turbo S on normal Michelin PS2s - also 2 seconds slower than the Mercedes CLS63 AMG Performance Package (on regular Continental SportContacts).

7.52 min - Porsche Panamera Turbo S
8.03 min - Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG Performance Package
8.05 min - BMW M5 F10
8.13 min - BMW M5 E60

 

[Zafiro]

Not impressed at all. Would like to hear Sportauto opinion on this. M6 will be faster though.

 

[Deckhook]

Not impressed at all. Would like to hear Sportauto opinion on this. M6 will be faster though.

So what if some of the others were a bit quicker, it's still better than the car it replaced and that's the important thing in my opinion.

 

[DeDe]

Not impressed at all. Would like to hear Sportauto opinion on this. M6 will be faster though.

I can only think of one reason: brakes with fading-tendency. Ceramics would solve this problem.

 

[Deckhook]

I can only think of one reason: brakes with fading-tendency. Ceramics would solve this problem.

I know BMW aren't alone in this but I hate how so called performance lack big time in the braking department.

 

[DeDe]

7.49 min - BMW Alpina B3 GT3 - 408 hp, 1586 kg (semi-slicks)

 

[Levi68]

It tells what the new F8X will be capable of.

 

[Deckhook]

7.49 min - BMW Alpina B3 GT3 - 408 hp, 1586 kg (semi-slicks)

And tell me what was so great about the GTS?

 

[DeDe]

And tell me what was so great about the GTS?

Even Sport Auto says "the B3 GT3 is the successor of the M3 CSL"...

 

[Deckhook]

Even Sport Auto says "the B3 GT3 is the successor of the M3 CSL"...

So what exactly was the purpose of the GTS.... make a quick buck with minimal effort?

 

[Zafiro]

So what exactly was the purpose of the GTS.... make a quick buck with minimal effort?

Come on, aren't you little harsh. Previous GT3 wasn't much quicker compare to the old one. Does it make the GT3 a bad car?
Of course not, a car is more than just fast laptime.

 

[Deckhook]

Come on, aren't you little harsh. Previous GT3 wasn't much quicker compare to the old one. Does it make the GT3 a bad car?
Of course not, a car is more than just fast laptime.

Harsh I most definitely am and for good reason in my opinion. When you look at the spec of the older CSL and the GTS it's the latter which is much more impressive and focused or at least on the face of it that's the impression with it's fixed rear wing and roll cage.

 

[Zafiro]

Harsh I most definitely am and for good reason in my opinion. When you look at the spec of the older CSL and the GTS it's the latter which is much more impressive and focused or at least on the face of it that's the impression with it's fixed rear wing and roll cage.

Give the car a drive and then come back to me and tell me its not an impressive car. What I've read it still an amazing driving machine.
Just forget about CSL for a moment.

 

[Deckhook]

Give the car a drive and then come back to me and tell me its not an impressive car. What I've read it still an amazing driving machine.
Just forget about CSL for a moment.

All M3s are impressive things to drive this I already know and I don't doubt the GTS is the pinnacle of the breed but you are forgiving it's lack of improvement against what on the face of it was a less focused car (CSL) simply because it drives well. The whole objective of a track-focused car is to be as quick as it possibly could be and the odd thing is the spec would suggest the GTS should have been very capable of such a task but the results on the ring especially suggests otherwise, my argument is did BMW put the same commitment as they obviously did with the CSL program or did they just do enough to make it sell.

 

[Zafiro]

All M3s are impressive things to drive this I already know and I don't doubt the GTS is the pinnacle of the breed but you are forgiving it's lack of improvement against what on the face of it was a less focused car (CSL) simply because it drives well. The whole objective of a track-focused car is to be as quick as it possibly could be and the odd thing is the spec would suggest the GTS should have been very capable of such a task but the results on the ring especially suggests otherwise, my argument is did BMW put the same commitment as they obviously did with the CSL program or did they just do enough to make it sell.

Do you feel the same about Porsche GT3 because like I said it wasnt much quicker as its previous version.

PS you might wanna read this
http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...di-a3-2-0-tdi-vs-bmw-118dm.46749/#post-598699

 

[Levi68]

Deckhook is right. Other than the fixed wing and the roll cage, the GTS is not impressive. A C AMG BS is alot more impressive, just pity it doesn't have framless windows, what makes it "cheap".
If BMW M brought out the M3 E92 CSL, it would be impressive, but it would need alot more R&D, and BMW wanted to reduce costs. Afterall the GTS is nothing than an M3 with half roll-cage, KW V3 CS suspension, Brembo brakes, Akrapovic inferior exhaust, Dinan inferior stroker kit. The CRT just has that of the GTS, but instead of the roll-cage and fixed wing it has CF custom seats, CF hood and CF trunk. In other words, tough I like the CRT, the GTS/CRT have nothing CSL worthy. It is not possible to forget the CSL, it is probably the best car BMW ever made.

 

[Guibo]

The whole objective of a track-focused car is to be as quick as it possibly could be and the odd thing is the spec would suggest the GTS should have been very capable of such a task but the results on the ring especially suggests otherwise, my argument is did BMW put the same commitment as they obviously did with the CSL program or did they just do enough to make it sell.

Not necessarily true. A track-focused car may be intended to be more durable for hard lapping, better managing its tires, brakes, cooling system, etc. A track-focused car can be made to be more enjoyable on a track, with sharper responses and better sound than the car upon which it is based. Considering the GTS is faster and a sharper car to drive than the E92 upon which it is based, it appears to have met part of its purpose. It appears that you are confusing the purpose of a track-focused car with that of a racecar; they are not one and the same. It's entirely possible that the harder setup for the GTS may have compromised its performance on the bumpier Nordschleife. That doesn't mean it will be similarly only marginally faster on more typical tracks.
The other part is one of profitability and image. If BMW copied the same strategy they did with the CSL, the forecourts may be full of GTS's that don't sell well, especially in a tight world economic climate. Are you saying this is the course of action that BMW should have taken?

 

[Deckhook]

Guibo, let's see....is the GTS more of a track car and less of a road car proper? I would argue it is and in fact far more so than the car it replaced, for a start they removed the rear seats turning it into a two seater and fitted a roll cage which are two typical things done to turn a road car into a race car, not saying that's what the GTS is because in a typical race it wouldn't fare too well against its main competition.

You can butter it up, put what ever twist you want on the GTS but the bottomline is it wasn't the car it could or should have been.