Nissan hits back at Porsche cheat claim

[Centurion]

I don't remember seeing any official material with the lap time either. It was always some engineer/test driver told some web site/car magazine. None of the manufacturers are that stupid, not even GM/Cadillac with there new found obsession with Nurbergring lap times. The closest you will find is 'car x breaks the 8 min mark'.

True, but then how come Nissan haven't denied the lap time saying that the time was achieved after having done thousand laps around the circuit.

 

[warot]

True, but then how come Nissan haven't denied the lap time saying that the time was achieved after having done thousand laps around the circuit.

Sorry to step on people's toes like this, but then doesn't it mean that people can sue the C63 for not being as engaging around a track as an M3? Because that's what one of the lead engineers/marketing team mentioned...

 

[chonkoa]

There is something that keeps telling me that Nissan may prove us wrong after all. I do not have any facts, evidence, no rational explanation as to why I think the GT-R might deliver on the claimed timing- just a hunch, and I honestly feel like an idiot sharing my thoughts with you guys.

If it were Toyota- I would probably agree with Porsche, but there is something about Nissan and their engineers that make me want to believe their story.

Just a hunch guys, like I said no facts to support anything.

Let us enjoy this episode.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Luw'.... you REALLY need to get off your high-horse on this topic buddy.

You're taking it so seriously and making this issue more dramatic than a Champion's League final going into penalty shoot-outs.. if it bothers you so much, why don't you and a bunch of other biased Porsche fans launch a class action against Nissan.

I've said it a million times on here... some people and their attitudes towards Japanese and American manufacturers are so immature, I don't know whether to laugh in amusement, or shake my head in disappointment.

But since you wanna be all cynical, what proof is there that Porsche's test with the GT-R were legit, or that the vehicle they used was a standard car without factory tweaks? As warot said, we don't know the fully story or all the facts...so give it a rest buddy.

 

[Sunny]

True, but then how come Nissan haven't denied the lap time saying that the time was achieved after having done thousand laps around the circuit.

Is you argument that Nissan should go around censoring/refuting every conversation between it's engineer's/test drivers and magazines? Cause if it is, it is a really stupid one.

Walter Rohrl, says he got "7:32" with CGT, another test only got "7:40", let us sue Porsche.

Ooh, a better one, Scott said "the new 7er will make the S class look like DOS, I don't think it does, let us sue BMW!" - see how stupid it sounds.

 

[LaArtist]

Umm when it broke that this car was clocked at 7:29 i was shocked as thats 2 seconds off the Offical Record time of the Zonda..it was to good to be true..
now lets see if its true

Ohh and manufacturers DO claim laptimes offically .. look at pagani
And i guess they where not lying as the Zonda broke its own record with the same driver again and by a whole lot

 

[Gullwing]

Walter Rohrl, says he got "7:32" with CGT, another test only got "7:40", let us sue Porsche.

Ummm 8 seconds is a lot closer then 25 seconds. If Porsche had gotten numbers close to what Nissan claims, they would not have brought it up.

 

[Sunny]

Ummm 8 seconds is a lot closer then 25 seconds. If Porsche had gotten numbers close to what Nissan claims, they would not have brought it up.

You missed the point, I made up those numbers. How much slower does it have to be before you can sue 25? 15? 10?

 

[Yperion]

Porsche wouldn't even bother buying a GT-R and testing it on N-Ring unless they thought that it is one of the best.

No matter what the lap times are that car is a 911 beater.

PS. Jeremy Clarkson also said that while the GT-R is mindblowing , he still can't believe the 7:29 time...

Jeremy Clarkson Nissan GT-R review | Driving - Times Online

 

[Gullwing]

Well look at the Miata, a few years ago. Mazda clained 155hp? but that was before emission parts were installed. Mazda had to offer customer full refunds or a certain amount towards their next car.

 

[Sunny]

Well look at the Miata, a few years ago. Mazda clained 155hp? but that was before emission parts were installed. Mazda had to offer customer full refunds or a certain amount towards their next car.

The same happened to some version of Ford mustang cobra too. The problem with HP is it is in official documentation. Lap times are not.

 

[Monster]

Nissan officially slams Porsche cheat claim

Will show tyres and video as evidence, offers Porsche driving tips
Nissan is standing firm on its claim to the production car lap record at the Nurburgring despite a blistering attack from Porsche.

And it has the tyres to prove it.

The German sports car maker accused Nissan of using special semi-race tyres when it set the Nurburgring benchmark at 7 minutes 29 seconds in April but the Japanese company is now going public with the actual Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST CTT tyres used for the hot lap.

It is also offering video footage shot by the Japanese magazine 'Best Motoring" during the high-speed runs.

Nissan has also questioned the preparation of the customer GT-R used by Porsche for its in-house testing last month, where it claimed it could not get within 25 seconds of the Nissan time and that its 911 GT2 and Turbo were both quicker.

And, in a back-handed slap at Porsche, it has offered driving tips for anyone trying to get the best from a GT-R.

The man who led development of the Nissan supercar, chief engineer, Kazutoshi Mizuno, says the lap record car is a regular production GT-R.

“Testing a car with specialized parts such as unique tires or suspension has no meaning for us. The GT-R was designed from the start to be a supercar that could be driven anywhere, anytime and by anyone. For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant than creating a one-off vehicle that our customers cannot buy," Mizuno says.

Nissan has taken nearly a week to assemble the evidence it says clearly refutes the Porsche claims.

It has even offered to show the actual tyres from the record run, which were taken back by Sumitomo in Japan for promotional work, to prove they are identical to the rubber fitted to production cars.

"It is clear that there are some important facts that were not accurately represented," Nissan says in its official press release on the Porsche claims.

It states that the record run, by former F1 driver Toshio Suzuki, was even compromised by carrying around 50 kilograms of data logging equipment supplied by Marelli and camera equipment.

Without attacking Porsche directly, it has also questioned everything from the tyres on the customer car its rival used to its preparation and the skill of the driver - who Porsche describes as one of its chassis test engineers.

Nissan says there are two types of tyre fitted to the GT-R, and the clear inference from its reference to the Bridgestone Potenza RE070R is that these were fitted to the Porsche-run GT-R and not as quick on a track as the Dunlops it uses.

It has also indirectly questioned the preparation of Porsche's car by referring to the run-in and service procedure, as well as the special technique for driving the all-wheel drive supercar.

"We are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car," Nissan says.

"In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."

Nissan has gone into great detail on its work with the GT-R at the Nurburgring, including documenting its various track tests earlier this year and the method - the same one used by Sport Auto Magazine in Germany - it used to time the car.

And Mizuno even says the Nurburgring lap record was not the prime objective of the GT-R program.

“We have used circuits like the Nurburgring and Sendai extensively during the development of the GT-R. The fastest lap-time was never the objective but a simple parameter for us to measure the GT-R in a consistent way against other world class supercars," he says.

Exclusive: Nissan officially slams Porsche cheat claim | carsguide.com.au

 

[Zafiro]

Enough of the talk!!! make the test for crying out loud.......

 

[Yperion]

"In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."

Lol, in simple words he is saying that Porsche guys are not capable of driving the GT-R fast enough.

This is a funny story. I don't actually care who says the truth but i will enjoy every minute of the debate.

 

[martinbo]

I hope to hell for Nissan's sake it wasn't Walter Rohrl driving.

 

[Monster]

I hope to hell for Nissan's sake it wasn't Walter Rohrl driving.

Why didn't Porsche use him in the 1st place, if they want to find out what the GTR can really do, isn't Walter the best person for the job?

 

[martinbo]

Catch 22; conflict of interests - who knows? Maybe Walter is able to extract a dilly time out of the GT-R... on the other hand, what if the great Walter is not able to get a great time and yet some other test drivers are.

In either event, giving away too much information wouldn't necessarily be in Porsche's best interests.

Nevertheless, what an epic little bit of performance manufacturer to and fro'ing.

 

[Family Guy]

Re: (((=== Nissan hits back @ Porsche cheat claim ===)))

The easiest way for Nissan is to get Toshio Suzuki to drive the GTR around the Ring, with a Porsche engineer sitting along side.

No! the fat porsche engineer might effect the time!

 

[martinbo]

Re: (((=== Nissan hits back @ Porsche cheat claim ===)))

This is about the most rational piece of opinion I've yet read on the matter:

SHEEEEE-IT! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!
Sniff, Friday, September 12th, 2008 at 3:09 am
Posted in News


There was grave concern this week as a leading scientist warned that an ongoing series of experiments could result in a massive black hole that would destroy the entire planet.

The experiments in question concern a device called the Grand Tadron-Relater (GT-R) which is being fired at increasing speeds around a 5.15km loop known as the Recherche Institute Nucleaire Grandvitesse (‘RING), situated in the German countryside.

“This whole experiment is ridiculous,” says Professor Ken Freeply of Nigel Havers College, Kettering, the scientist at the centre of the empty headed doom-laden blathering. “The GT-R is being sent around the ‘RING every week and every time it does the speed at which it completes the loop is inexplicably getting higher and higher. According to my extrapolations within as little as 18 months it will be circling the entire ‘RING in around 32 seconds, at which point a fatal black hole will be created”

“Of course the black hole won’t actually be caused by the sheer speed of the GT-R,” Prof. Freeply added. “It will most likely result from the sheer weight of tedious argumentative bollocks posted about it on the internet”.

 

[Centurion]

Press Statement ​

NISSAN GT-R TEST PROCEDURES ​

In light of comments made recently in the media concerning the testing of the Nissan GT-R, it is clear that there are some important facts that were not accurately represented.
Background

On September 24, 2007 the Nissan GT-R recorded a lap time of the Nordschleife circuit at Germany's Nurburgring of seven minutes and 38 seconds. This lap time was completed in weather conditions that the Nissan test team knew would not show the full potential of the car.

On April 17, 2008 the Nissan test team was back at the Nurburgring and recorded a new lap time of seven minutes and 29 seconds, several times.

For all testing at the Nurburgring and other circuits such as Sendai Highlands in Japan, the GT-R development team used production specification vehicles with production specification tires. These tests are part of the extensive performance and durability program undertaken before, during and after the commercial introduction of the GT-R.

The GT-R is a world-class supercar developed to be sold in multiple global markets. While specifications can differ across the various markets, the cars used to record both Nurburgring lap times were identical to the Japanese market production specification cars.

For the April 2008 test, the GT-R carried an additional 50kg of weight due to the Marelli data recorder and video camera equipment. In addition, the test was witnessed by 'Best Motoring' magazine from Japan who reported the test in their July 2008 issue, which included a DVD program of the session.

Nissan records the lap times around the Nurburgring using the same methodology and measuring locations as Sport Auto Magazine in Germany. Sport Auto Magazine provides the most consistent and objective measurement of lap times around the Nurburgring, allowing accurate comparisons between different vehicles.

In both timed lap sessions at the Nurburgring, chief test driver and professional racing driver, Toshio Suzuki was at the wheel. Suzuki has been the chief test driver on the GT-R program throughout the vehicle's development.

Tires

The GT-R offers two different tire choices for customers:

Bridgestone POTENZA RE070R
Dunlop SP SPORT 600 DSST CTT

For the tests conducted at the Nurburgring where the lap times of 7:38 and 7:29 were recorded, the Dunlop tires were used. The tires – which are designed for high performance driving in the dry and wet - used in the tests were identical to the production specification tires available to GT-R customers.

In June, 2008 Dunlop Japan issued a press release announcing that their tires had been used by Nissan to record the 7:29 lap time. The release can be accessed in Japanese and English at:
NISSAN GT-R‚É‘•’…‚³‚ꂽƒ_ƒ“ƒƒbƒv‚Ì‚«”\ƒ‰ƒ“ƒtƒ‰ƒbƒgƒ^ƒCƒ„ uSP SPORT 600 DSST CTTv‚ªƒjƒ…ƒ‹ƒuƒ‹ƒNƒŠƒ“ƒNƒT[ƒLƒbƒg‚Å7•ª30•b‚Ì•Ç‚ð”j‚é

SUMITOMO RUBBER INDUSTRIES | Investor Relations | Corporate News

For any media interested in seeing the actual tires used at the test (7:29 lap time), they should contact the Public Relations Department at Sumitomo Rubber Industries, Ltd. in Japan.

Driving the GT-R

Consistent with industry benchmarking practices, we are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car.

In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R.

Remarks

From Kazutoshi Mizuno, Chief Vehicle Engineer and Chief Product Specialist for GT-R:

"We have used circuits like the Nurburgring and Sendai extensively during the development of the GT-R. The fastest lap-time was never the objective but a simple parameter for us to measure the GT-R in a consistent way against other world class supercars."
"Testing a car with specialized parts such as unique tires or suspension has no meaning for us. The GT-R was designed from the start to be a supercar that could be driven anywhere, anytime and by anyone. For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant than creating a one-off vehicle that our customers cannot buy."


Conclusion

Due to the weather conditions at the Nurburgring, testing has now stopped and will resume around April 2009. Nissan will be back at the Nurburgring testing both the standard GT-R and upcoming additional models. We look forward to welcoming more members of the media to join us for these test sessions, consistent with our transparency at previous test sessions.