Poll M5 (F10) & E63 AMG PP (W212): Speed Battle!

[Karabiner98k]

many of them even didn't realize you were asking about the pre facelift car.

My first post includes pictures of E63 & M5.

 

[DeDe]

I wait for AutoBild Sportscars' comparison on the Sachsenring, the "Mini-Nordschleife", it is a much more competitive track than AutoZeitung's flat track on the Airfield of Mendig, Germany. If the M5 will be faster there too, well... that will be a shame on AMG.

 

[Karabiner98k]

I think E63 S will be faster on Hockenheim than M5.

 

[DeDe]

I think E63 S will be faster on Hockenheim than M5.

It's a flat track with less grip than other tracks, not to mention the tight corners. So I have to agree with you, 4matic will be a huge advantage there.

 

[Deckhook]

AWD and tight corners don't generally suit one another.

 

[DeDe]

AWD and tight corners don't generally suit one another.

No, but neither does 680 Nm and RWD... Not to mention the M5's tyre-eating behaviour. The Pilot Super Sports were good for only one hot lap around the short HHR, than they started to get hot and lost grip.

 

[Deckhook]

No, but neither does 680 Nm and RWD... Not to mention the M5's tyre-eating behaviour. The Pilot Super Sports were good for only one hot lap around the short HHR, than they started to get hot and lost grip.

Too true my friend too true. Though I'm pretty sure the Merc's tyres wouldn't last any longer under the same conditions.

 

[DblPen]

where are those people who said e63 amg s makes m5 irrelevant? =\

 

[Sunny]

where are those people who said e63 amg s makes m5 irrelevant? =\

It is just one test, like Dede said I am sure there will be others where E63 is faster. But yea, nothing is makeing anything irrelevant.

 

[Sunny]

So I dusted my spreadsheet skillz and entered the numbers for M5 and E63PP from the dyno chart posted above and the gear ratios and voila -

Random observations -

Thanks to shorter gear ratios, M5 pretty much matchs E63 PP in torque even in the RPM ranges where M157 actually makes way more torque than S63Tu.

Beyond 5k M157 runs out of steam while S63Tu keeps on trucking.

But the real killing is the last 1k where M157 is done while S63Tu is still incredibly strong (even by NA engine standards).

I did not bother calculating the area under the curves, but it is pretty obvious M5 has more of it under it's curves.

This is based on just one dyno, I doubt all would be as favorable to M5 as this one. But if those two cars had raced on that day under those conditions, I can't see how the M5 wouldn't have won.

I know many people (including me at times) bemoaned the M5 going the aspirated route, but the S63Tu is a real gem. I just hope S63Tu gets a proper chasis it deserves in it's life time and doesn't go into oblivion like S85 powering just fat pigs.

ps. I don't seem to be able to upload the spreadsheet, but if any one is interested in checking the numbers or the calculations, PM me and I will try send it to you.

 

[Sunny]

Dede (or any one else), do you know the circumference of the tires the 2 cars use?

Edit: Never mind, should have checked your post in the first page - 2.165m(M5) and 2.53(E63).

 

[DeDe]

Dede (or any one else), do you know the circumference of the tires the 2 cars use?

Edit: Never mind, should have checked your post in the first page - 2.165m(M5) and 2.53(E63).

That's 2.053 m.

 

[FC123]

Here are the test results from Autozeitung:
BMW M5 Mercedes E 63 AMG S 4matic

Weight: 1985 kg 1985 kg

0-40 kph: 1,7 s 1,3 s
0-60 kph: 2,5 s 1,9 s
0-80 kph: 3,3 s 2,7 s
0-100 kph: 4,2 s 3,6 s
0-120 kph: 5,3 s 4,7 s
0-140 kph: 6,6 s 6,0 s
0-160 kph: 8,0 s 7,6 s

NO 0-200 kph time

Handling course: 1.42,3 min 1.42,7 min
Slalom 18m: 66,8 kph 65,8 kph
Braking 100-0 kph: 33,6 m 33,3 m

So, the M5 is slightly faster 60-160 (0,2 sec) - according to this at least, with the 4matic having the edge (naturally) of the line.

 

[klier]

So it turns out the good old M5 perfectly holds it's own here.

Can't wait to see the inevitable M5 'CRT'

where are those people who said e63 amg s makes m5 irrelevant? =\

LOL, you want me to catch them for ya?

 

[Karabiner98k]

Thank you very much Sunny for your great post about curves.
As you said above, if conditions are the same for both cars then M5 is faster from 200-300 km/h.
But Dyno to Dyno Variation may change the results.

 

[DeDe]

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[LaArtist]

haha that tacho shot is ridiculous, it looks like its just accelerating at a constant pace..normally the rate of speed needle slows over certain speeds..but this thing just keeps coming..
Stupendous performance for a family car to be honest

 

[Deckhook]

Just after watching that video you posted DeDe. Frankly I'm shocked at how quickly this thing gains speed, how on earth could the M5 be any quick I ask myself and to be honest I doubt it could be despite the excellent graphs provide by Sunny.

Are saloon cars really this quick nowadays????????

 

[Sunny]

One more, this time Torque vs Speed. I assume cars are in the optimum (read lowest possible) gear for a given speed. I didn't plot the 7th gear cause the gears are too tall and speeds are ridiculous and not going to happen. Even 6th is the petty much same - too tall.

 

[Levi68]

F*ck was that fast! Supercars a having a hard time nowdays. They have to step up, sedans are catching them.