Megatest : MP4-12C vs 458 vs Turbo S vs SLS AMG vs Noble M600 vs Ford GT

[Tarek]

^True.

I can only imagine what the Scuderia version or whatever they gonna call it will be like..

 

[Soup]

Scans coming in 3 days

 

[Mafalda]

Scans coming in 3 days

 

[emve]

MP4-12C :

0-60mph - 3,0s
0-100mph - 6,4s
0-150mph - 15,3s

458 Italia (apparently they used data from their previous road test)

0-60mph - 3,2s
0-100mph - 6,8s
0-150mph - 15,2s

As official performance data suggest, MP4-12C seems to lose its magic above 200km/h.

 

[Mafalda]

I never said anything about a customer Enzo being slower.
The F430S test you're talking about has no relevance to this discussion. Different day, with possibly different conditions. I'd hope McLaren aren't so stupid as to test their benchmarked 458 against their development MP4-12C on different days, but seeing as how they've apparently blown 2 objective measures in 2 tests, it makes me wonder. As does the 458 (which in prior test had been slower than a GT3 RS before fettling, then faster after fettling), now being nearly 3s quicker on the Bedford track, even faster than the GT2 RS and Gumpert...

BTW, apparently none of the Evo testers picked the McLaren as their favorite car. What's this theory again about UK mags/Evo being biased against Ferrari and wanting to promote McLaren? Do you now accept that that theory was fairly preposterous?

Guibo we must wait the article, next week will avaible Evo, auto express etc etc

I only noticed a strange coincidence, after the article of EVO, some polemical articles, more or less explicit, against Ferrari. The same British magazines right now they disproved me, fortunately

 

[Guibo]

I only noticed a strange coincidence, after the article of EVO, some polemical articles, more or less explicit, against Ferrari. The same British magazines right now they disproved me, fortunately

It might not be so strange if you were a member of the motoring press, having recently been taken to task by an unnamed manufacturer over using a customer car in a comparo, then being rebuffed at the request for a 458 to compare, as Car's Chris Chilton stated.

 

[Mafalda]

We'are waiting!!

 

[LaArtist]

I really do NOT like this new Mclaren.. its this Playstation car...like the Nissan GTR..i mean one has to give respect to the amazing electronics and what not.. but its not the real deal..
And on top of that it looks like:
( notice blank space)

 

[DeDe]

I really do NOT like this new Mclaren.. its this Playstation car...like the Nissan GTR..

The 458 Italia is the same as well. Except one thing: it has SOUL.

 

[F40 LeMans]

The 458 Italia is the same as well. Except one thing: it has SOUL.

all, today

old school cars were better

my car at top

 

[LaArtist]

The 458 Italia is the same as well. Except one thing: it has SOUL.

yes..you are right..but you can turn it all of in the Ferrari besides the ABS..and if you can drive..it turns into magic..
while in the Mclaren you cant turn of traction completley..

And then its the soul part..its dead the mclaren on that account...even the GTR has more..

 

[Mafalda]

according with EVO, there's a team from Woking...
Ferrari Team = manipulations team
McLaren Team = cheerleaders
Your crusade is over, and you've lost

P.S.
according with EVO, all three cars still mantain the same tyres before the hotlaps, and any adjustment of setup was denied....

 

[DeDe]

Guys, FYI: all weight-numbers in this test are factory claims. 1485 kgs (with fluids) for the Italia, 1434 for the Macca, etc.

 

[Mafalda]

Guys, FYI: all weight-numbers in this test are factory claims. 1485 kgs (with fluids) for the Italia, 1434 for the Macca, etc.

someone sees what he wants to see

 

[Guibo]

according with EVO, there's a team from Woking...
Ferrari Team = manipulations team
McLaren Team = cheerleaders
Your crusade is over, and you've lost

P.S.
according with EVO, all three cars still mantain the same tyres before the hotlaps, and any adjustment of setup was denied....

So in other words, the # of employees on hand doesn't matter. This is clearly different from other tests where the Ferrari was for sure allowed changes in tires, changes in wheel sizes to correct inherent understeer, and their own fuel. mafalda, nobody here ever said presence alone means manipulation. Again, quit your hyperbole and look at the big picture. I have said elsewhere and I'll say it again: if McLaren are allowed to mess with the car in future tests, while other companies do not send personnel for setups, then I think this is not a level playing field by which most manufacturers have agreed. No cheerleading for McLaren here. I've said before from initial tests that the Ferrari can very well win mag comparos, and I've been critical of them based on these tests for the past few days. It's not just about the McLaren being objectively slower than the Ferrari.
"Sense of humor"? That implies that you were funny.

the improvement'd be much more better one second
contrary, is 1s better, as like as the Mp4 from Pzero to Pzero Corsa

We don't know what the real difference is. I don't think Evo ever gave a lap time on the previous 458 without Ferrari team intervention. And if, as you say, there is no difference between customer car vs factory car with no intevervention vs factory car with intervention, then you still have yet to answer: Why does Ferrari care so much? There should be no real difference.

Surely. It's always like that. It was like that for the F430, 599 GTB (and so on), now, today for the 458.. and so on.

But. It's the same for other mnfs.

Is it? Customer ZR1s and GT-Rs have been as fast as the press ones; in some cases recording faster times even with California (lower octane) fuels. Porsche owners will also tell you their cars have bettered factory claims. As far as I know, none of those manufacturers have been sued for lack of speed.

 

[F40 LeMans]

Is it? Customer ZR1s and GT-Rs have been as fast as the press ones; in some cases recording faster times even with California (lower octane) fuels. Porsche owners will also tell you their cars have bettered factory claims. As far as I know, none of those manufacturers have been sued for lack of speed.

Neither for 458s, you already said that "customer-spec 458 and believe the 0-200 time for the Ferrari is closer to 10.4, rather than 9.69 as in QR". Ferrari claimed 10.3s.

Mecca claimed 8.9s, will be possible? I do not understand why always blame one about power output or data claimed, if others (although not all) are the same.

 

[Mafalda]

I have already answered this question ... but, above all, Ferrari that has already responded too, with words and facts.
I must not look at any pictures. you just in case, you must read the text: a comparison with with the same conditions (both official cars with a support team per car), was denied to fix cars, and at the end there is a winner (458). but, above all, try to understand what is NOT written, dear Don Quixote: there is no trace of trickery or manipulation. which, apparently, you seem don't like....

 

[F40 LeMans]

I have already answered this question ... but, above all, Ferrari that has already responded too, with words and facts.
I must not look at any pictures. you just in case, you must read the text: a comparison with with the same conditions (both official cars with a support team per car), was denied to fix cars, and at the end there is a winner (458). but, above all, try to understand what is NOT written, dear Don Quixote: there is no trace of trickery or manipulation. which, apparently, you seem don't like....

What I don't understand is: Customer Ferraris are slower, with less power than factory cars, ok. But, they are within the figures claimed. Then, lack of speed or they are cheathing being all within tolerance.

When others mnfs are out of power with cars sent do the press, too fast or too slow, it's all ok. If customer Ferraris are slower, then they are able to repeat the claim. Where is "the problem" behind the rules/claims? We have to search a problem?

In this case again: I will want to see if Mecca's 0-200 will be able of 8.9s?! But, I already know that will not be the same problem.

 

[Guibo]

I have already answered this question ... but, above all, Ferrari that has already responded too, with words and facts.
I must not look at any pictures. you just in case, you must read the text: a comparison with with the same conditions (both official cars with a support team per car), was denied to fix cars, and at the end there is a winner (458). but, above all, try to understand what is NOT written, dear Don Quixote: there is no trace of trickery or manipulation. which, apparently, you seem don't like....

Your implication was that since McLaren were there with more people, then it must have meant more manipulations for the McLaren. That turns out to be not the case, and Ferrari for sure had prior track setup at Autocar last year (on top of further adjustments on day of test when it turned out the 458, even with prior setup, was slower than the GT3 RS). AutoExpress showed the GT3 RS beating the 458 at Anglesey, and now the 458 is miraculously beating the GT2 RS without any intervention?
No trace of trickery, so therefore we can expect to see Ferrari never touch a car in test again, yes? And that proves my point: You don't have to be in the field to optimize a car to factory spec tolerances.

The same goes for you, F40LM: If Ferrari press/factory cars are well within tolerance, then we should see fast/slow cars relative to customer spec just as with any other manufacturer. Yet we have not so far. We have Chris Harris mentioning that in his rant. We have the 599 demonstrably slower than SLR/CGT when, based on AMuS test, it should have been faster. Then the Motor Trend test with a customer F430 (way off pace of press/factory) while in the same condition (and even with a window broken in down position), we have a customer LP560-4 about as fast as press Lambo.
If there's no difference, then Ferrari should have no problem with a customer car taking part in a test or comparo. I ask you before: Who else besides Ferrari control the means by which cars are tested to such an extent? Let us say, for a moment, there is no cheating. Who else to such extent?

 

[F40 LeMans]

mafalda: gira gira siam sempre la