Hot! The 2012 U.S. Sales Battle: Mercedes vs BMW

[EnI]

Based on the U.S. sales numbers reported at the end of 2012, BMW, excluding its MINI and Rolls-Royce brands, sold 281,460 cars and SUVs last year.

Mercedes-Benz, excluding the Smart brand and its Sprinter vans, sold 274,134 cars and SUVs here.

Simple math shows that BMW outsold Mercedes-Benz by 7,326 units, which is enough for BMW to be declared the winner in the 2012 German luxury car sales wars.

As Mercedes-Benz alleges, however, there’s nothing simple about the math used in new car sales claims.

Today at the International Motor Press Association (IMPA) lunch presentation in New York, Steve Cannon, president and CEO of Mercedes-Benz North America, revealed that new car registration data from R.L. Polk paints a different picture than BMW’s sales claims.

In fact, Cannon alleges that Mercedes-Benz beat BMW’s 2012 U.S. deliveries to actual customers by more than 5,000 vehicles. Blame it on fuzzy math, or (more accurately) the difference between cars "sold" and new cars registered.

In 2012, Mercedes-Benz sold 274,134 units, with 274,123 corresponding new-car registrations. That's very little difference, obviously.

BMW, on the other hand, reported sales of 281,460 units, but only 268,498 new BMW vehicles were registered last year--a difference of a whopping 12,962 units, or 4.6 percent.

As Cannon explains, “We’ve run into BMW dealers saying 25 percent of the cars on their lots are sold. We don’t play that game.”

For comparison (and clarity), Lexus claimed sales of 244,166 vehicles in 2012, with 242,533 corresponding registrations, a difference of 1,633 units.

While Cannon declined to say specifically, on the record, that BMW had fudged its sales numbers, he note that the Wall Street Journal wrote last August about specific ways that BMW could alter its sales figures.

One of those methods is for carmakers to report "sales” that are actually cars sold on paper only, used very briefly as dealer demonstrators or loaners, and then sold quickly as very lightly used cars--through special carmaker incentive programs that compensate the dealer for the difference.

We’re fairly certain that BMW will be presenting a different perspective on the matter in the coming days.

Until BMW provides its own accounting, it seems as if Mercedes-Benz may have put more vehicles, specifically 5,625 more vehicles, in U.S. driveways last year.

Our hats are off to the new 2012 German luxury volume leader.


http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1082427_did-mercedes-benz-outsell-bmw-in-the-u-s-last-year



M

That was in 2012 ... And who is "cheating" & "cooking the books" the books NOW, in 2013?


BMW Tops Mercedes in Vehicle Registrations, Polk Says


By Mark Clothier - Jun 10, 2013 9:32 PM GMT+0200

Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (BMW)’s BMW, trailing Daimler AG (DAI)’s Mercedes-Benz in U.S. luxury vehicle sales so far this year, exceeded its German counterpart in first-quarter new U.S. vehicle registrations.
U.S. buyers registered 67,385 BMW vehicles through March this year, compared with Mercedes’s 62,366, according to researcher R.L. Polk & Co., which tracks state by state records. Sales for the BMW brand totaled 64,902 in the same period, compared with 69,187 for Mercedes. The reverse was true for 2012, when BMW won the sales crown with a late surge while Mercedes had more new registrations.
“Generally, the two makes track very closely to one another,” Tom Libby, lead North American analyst for Southfield, Michigan-based Polk, said in an e-mail. “A new model launch or redesign can help one make in a particular month. But, as we have seen the last two years, a lot can change very quickly at the end of the year.”
Vehicles can be reported as sold when delivered to dealerships to be used for test drives and loaner cars in addition to those actually bought by consumers. Automakers report U.S. vehicle sales within a few days of the end of a month. New vehicle registration data usually lag sales data by about 40 days, Libby said.
The sales and registration results don’t include Stuttgart, Germany-based Daimler’s cargo vans and Smart cars and BMW’s Mini brand, which aren’t luxury vehicles. On that basis, Mercedes has reported U.S. sales of 117,535 vehicles this year through May compared with 113,357 for BMW.
The two German automakers are vying to be the top luxury-auto brand in the U.S. after outselling Toyota Motor Corp. (7203)’s Lexus the past two years. Munich-based BMW vaulted to its second consecutive U.S. luxury crown in 2012. Lexus was the top-selling luxury brand in the U.S. for 11 years until natural disasters in Asia curtailed production in 2011.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-10/bmw-tops-mercedes-in-vehicle-registrations-polk-says.html


I wonder how the guys who bashed BMW for "cheating" in 2012, and praised MB for "playing fair" will react now to the news posted above. And I also expect the explanation from MBUSA CEO to explain what went wrong in "that game" ... since it seems they have started to play it too suddenly.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Well no shit. If your primary competitor cheats and uses the false victory to beat their chest, then what do you do? Sit back and take it?

I personally think it's stupid and a standardised reporting system should be legislated.

Funny how the article suggests, only the tsunami was to blame for Lexus losing the sales crown.

 

[Hofmeister]

From AutoNews Europe

Daimler AG’s Mercedes-Benz probably won't win the U.S. luxury car sales race this year, CEO Dieter Zetsche said.

“I don’t think we’ll be No. 1 at the end of the year and that’s OK,” Zetsche told reporters here today. “We won’t play any games. I’m not sure that applies to our competition.” *

Mercedes led the BMW brand in U.S. deliveries by 1,519 vehicles after the first six months. BMW captured the crown the past two years and secured the No. 1 spot in 2012 with a December surge, based on reported sales. Measured by vehicle registrations, Mercedes topped BMW for the year, according to researcher R.L. Polk & Co.

Zetsche, 60, wants Mercedes to surpass BMW and Volkswagen AG's Audi in worldwide sales and profit by 2020. In the first quarter, Mercedes’s operating profit was 3.3 percent of sales, compared with 11.1 percent for Audi and 9.9 percent for BMW. The CEO was in Canada for the North American introduction of the revamped S-class sedan.

U.S. sales for Mercedes for the year through June gained 10 percent to 141,950, Daimler said July 2. BMW said its deliveries for the period rose 11 percent to 140,431. The figures don’t include Daimler’s cargo vans and Smart cars and BMW’s Mini brand, which aren’t luxury vehicles.

*​

 

[EnI]

“I don’t think we’ll be No. 1 at the end of the year and that’s OK,” Zetsche told reporters here today. “We won’t play any games. I’m not sure that applies to our competition.”

I advise Herr Zetche to read my post #81 in this thread.

Recap:

BMW Tops Mercedes in Vehicle Registrations, Polk Says


By Mark Clothier - Jun 10, 2013 9:32 PM GMT+0200

Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (BMW)’s BMW, trailing Daimler AG (DAI)’s Mercedes-Benz in U.S. luxury vehicle sales so far this year, exceeded its German counterpart in first-quarter new U.S. vehicle registrations.
U.S. buyers registered 67,385 BMW vehicles through March this year, compared with Mercedes’s 62,366, according to researcher R.L. Polk & Co., which tracks state by state records. Sales for the BMW brand totaled 64,902 in the same period, compared with 69,187 for Mercedes. The reverse was true for 2012, when BMW won the sales crown with a late surge while Mercedes had more new registrations.
“Generally, the two makes track very closely to one another,” Tom Libby, lead North American analyst for Southfield, Michigan-based Polk, said in an e-mail. “A new model launch or redesign can help one make in a particular month. But, as we have seen the last two years, a lot can change very quickly at the end of the year.”
Vehicles can be reported as sold when delivered to dealerships to be used for test drives and loaner cars in addition to those actually bought by consumers. Automakers report U.S. vehicle sales within a few days of the end of a month. New vehicle registration data usually lag sales data by about 40 days, Libby said.
The sales and registration results don’t include Stuttgart, Germany-based Daimler’s cargo vans and Smart cars and BMW’s Mini brand, which aren’t luxury vehicles. On that basis, Mercedes has reported U.S. sales of 117,535 vehicles this year through May compared with 113,357 for BMW.
The two German automakers are vying to be the top luxury-auto brand in the U.S. after outselling Toyota Motor Corp. (7203)’s Lexus the past two years. Munich-based BMW vaulted to its second consecutive U.S. luxury crown in 2012. Lexus was the top-selling luxury brand in the U.S. for 11 years until natural disasters in Asia curtailed production in 2011.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-10/bmw-tops-mercedes-in-vehicle-registrations-polk-says.html

 

[GTA45E]

I don`t know where to put this... I was at the grocery store today and happen to glance over the September 2013 Issue of Automobile Magazine. According to AM the 2012 W221 S-Class sold more cars globally than any of it`s competitors.
2012 models:

1. Mercedes-Benz S-Class 65,128
2. BMW 7-Series............. 59,184
3. Audi A8...................... 38,640
4. Lexus LS.................... 13,077

 

[LaArtist]

^normal

 

[Sunny]

^normal

But far from the 7/10 cars sold in the class is S class you go around claiming.

 

[LaArtist]

^this is the last year of W221 production.

Come again when the W222 numbers are in.

Might not be 7/10 these days, but it will be damn near 5/10..mark my words.

 

[Sunny]

^this is the last year of W221 production.

So I am guessing you have numbers from prior years showing it is 7/10 like you claimed?

 

[LaArtist]

For example year 2008 before the recession hit:

S class : 90.600
7er: 38.835
A8: 20.140

Total sales of those cars that year 149.575 units

that's roughly 60% of the sales for the S class.

And this is when the competition started to catch it somewhat, previous generations of S class vs competition is a slaughter go back and check.

PS
I know there is some unfairness in this, as i did not include the rest of the segment ( cars like LS,Qporte and so on).
Also in 08 the W221 had 2 years on its neck, the A8 had 6 years and the E65 was in its last year of production.

PPS
The claim is actually not something i pulled out of my ass, i heard some car reviewer say it or i read it somewhere that for every 10 cars sold in the segment 7 was S class.
No idea what year or era they were suggesting, nor do i have any memory of where i exactly heard it.

I hope this satisfies you somewhat.

 

[Sunny]

^So even with things heavily stacked in it's favor, it wasn't 7/10?

ps. I am not accusing you of anything, just pointing out numbers have a way of being thrown around here casually before it becomes an accepted fact when it is really not.

BTW you have a link for those numbers?

 

[LaArtist]

Wikipedia is your friend for those numbers..

just search for S,7 and A8..and go under production and sales.

I would link them to you but i gotta get going, if you don't find it ile do it when im back.

 

[Sunny]

^ That is good enough, I will look it up. Thanks.

Meanwhile...

Tesla Model S Outsells BMW 7 Series, Audi A8, Mercedes-Benz S-Class and Lexus LS in US in Q1 of 2013


And Audi responds with some retardness

 

[LaArtist]

^isn't the model S a 5er/Eclass competitor?

 

[Sunny]

^Price wise it is sort of in the middle.

• Audi A8 $72,200
• BMW 7 Series $74,195
• Mercedes S-Class $92,350
• Lexus LS $71,990

Then there’s the Model S, which depending on pack size and whether or not you opt for the Performance version, with the following pricing structure (base MSRP without incentives)

• Tesla Model S $69,900 or $79,900 or $94,900

 

[EnI]

For example year 2008 before the recession hit:

S class : 90.600
7er: 38.835
A8: 20.140

Total sales of those cars that year 149.575 units

that's roughly 60% of the sales for the S class.

Where did you get those figures for S-class?????? Wikipedia? WRONG!

Go check the press report they refer to and you'll see Daimler reported 90,600 figure for the entire luxury segment and not the S-class alone.

"Der Absatz im Luxussegment insgesamt belief sich auf 90.600 (i.V. 109.000) Einheiten (minus 17 Prozent)."

Additional official Daimler press release ( http://ar2008.daimler.com/reports/d...impacted-by-difficult-market-environment.html ) & Daimler AG 2008 annual report @ page #50 ( http://www.daimler.com/Projects/c2c/channel/documents/1677323_DAI_2008_Annual_Report.pdf ) both state 2008 sales figures for the entire luxury class (S, CL, SL, SLR & Maybach): 92,900.

"Worldwide sales in the luxury segment (S-, CL-, SL-Class, SLR and Maybach) totaled 92,900 units (2007: 107,000), putting us well ahead of our major competitors."

So the 2008 sales figure for S-class alone is unknown ... but it sure isn't ~90k. But surely above 7er's 38,835 (yet there was a Mk change in 2008 for 7er though). Although I doubt it was even 2 to 1 vs 7er sales. Also the luxury sedan segment does not consist of S-class, 7er & A8 only. At least sales of Jaguar Xj & Lexus LS are missing in that figure. So in the end S-class sales definitely DO NOT represent 60% of the segment sales. That's a PURE MANIPULATION, sorry.

 

[Sunny]

^Thanks Eni. I couldn't find global breakdown by model, but I could find the US ones. Here is the list for last 3 years (along with % for S and 7) -

          S            7             LS     Panamera    A8       XJ
2012    11794(24%)    11098(22%)    8345    7614        6002    4852
2011    12258(24%)    11299(22%)    9568    6879        5700    5235
2010    13608(26%)    12253(24%)    12275   7741        1521    4278

So all this talk about 7/10 is just BS, it is not even 3/10, at least not in the US.

Source - http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/p/us-segments.html.

You can find the sales figures all the way back to 2002 from that site, but you have to dig more.

 

[Wolfgang]

Some more S-Class stats were posted earlier.


In 2012, Mercedes-Benz sold 65,128 S-class cars worldwide, down from 68,969 in 2011. Since the current generation model went on sale in September 2005 in Europe, more than 500,000 cars have been sold worldwide, according to Mercedes-Benz.

In the United States, S-class sales declined 4 percent in 2012 to 11,794 units. S-class sales hit a peak of 30,886 cars in 2006. While competitors have raised their game in the segment, Mercedes-Benz officials are confident the new S-class will make significant strides.

http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...2-s-class-spy-pics-info-part-3.43647/page-174

 

[Sunny]

^I am sure it will do very well but not "7/10" well. .

On the other hand looking at sales figures for S and 7 since 2002 in the US, it is amazing how much the market for this whole class of cars have dwindled over the years. No wonder every one wants to make SUVs and cross overs.

 

[Human]

^I am sure it will do very well but not "7/10" well. .

On the other hand looking at sales figures for S and 7 since 2002 in the US, it is amazing how much the market for this whole class of cars have dwindled over the years. No wonder every one wants to make SUVs and cross overs.

The numbers certainly do the talking (especially for this class) yet the 'Super Bespoke' class is/has grown significantly e.g. Rolls-Royce and Bentley. OR is it just them? The Maybach brand did not survive, will be interesting to see if a future Pullman can match the aristocratic Brits for appeal and numbers in sales.