U.S. BMW 1-Series still two years off

[siko]

[image no longer available]
U.S. BMW 1-Series still two years off

BMW at the Geneva Motor Show told the Detroit News that the 1-Series is still about two years from coming to the United States. "Expect to see the 1-Series in America no earlier than the end of 2007, most probably early in 2008," said Richard Gaul, senior vice president Corporate Affairs, answering a question on the BMW stand at the Geneva motor show. At first glance, it may appear the U.S. introduction is four years behind the European launch, but in reality the rollouts will be much closer. That's because the 5-door 1-Series hatch — the only model currently on the European market — isn't coming to the U.S. at all. Instead, forthcoming sedan, coupe, and convertible variants are expected stateside. BMW officials said they were still undecided on what variants to bring over, but the 5-door hatch is out of the question. The 3-door hatch, however, remains a possible candidate.

Source: LeftLaneNews

 

[Porsche Guy]

I'm liking the sound of this. If only M could pull off an M1 but in low quantities to keep it from being as common as SUVs in the US or what not. I just don't want M to get too big and common. The M1 should be something special and rare! 3 liter inline 6 with 300hp and M steer/handling? Any takers? I think we would have quite a few.

PS. if you're reading this BMW, just do it!!

 

[Matt]

BMW, listen to PG, he knows what hes talking about!

 

[Merc1]

I'm liking the sound of this. If only M could pull off an M1 but in low quantities to keep it from being as common as SUVs in the US or what not. I just don't want M to get too big and common. The M1 should be something special and rare! 3 liter inline 6 with 300hp and M steer/handling? Any takers? I think we would have quite a few.

PS. if you're reading this BMW, just do it!!

Sounds good to me. I picture a 1-Series Sedan/Coupe/Cabrio pretty much taking the place of the E36 3-Series, which was the last lean 3-Series before the really starting pushing upmarket in size and weight. A 300hp M1 for like 40K would be a we-can't-build-enough-of-them hit. I just hope they change the headlights for the Coupe/Cabrio/Sedan versions and tone down some of the wierder elements like that sagging bottom cut line.

If done right, the 1-Series rollout could take BMW sales to the 350K mark in the U.S.

BMW is really taking their time with this and no doubt researching how customers would act to a "1-Series". They don't want a 318Ti type failure again.

I mean look at the proportions here, this thing has serious potential. Its like the perfect size and stance:

[image no longer available]

M

 

[Deutsch]

Frankly, at this stage in the game I'm growing very very tired w/ BMW. All this hoop la about their design and driving dynamics(both great/bad, all depending upon how you look at it), but the product offerings are slim and priced VERY HIGH for what you get, and sure, many will say "well Deutsch, you do get what you pay for" True enough, but why do I have to select a dozen pricey option packages to get what I want? Ok, beating around the bush aside, I don't know what's the big deal w/ the stupid product launches, it really should not be THAT hard for them to gauge the U.S. market and figure what it is that we as consumers want in an entry level luxury car, whatever the body style? People are going to want a freak'n 1 seires, it's a BMW.
To boot road feel(more precisely steering feel) adds to the quality of driving safety and experience, but in the real world this can become annoying, especially if you're a marketing V.P doing numbers crunching all day long, then to hop in your $50k 5er and feel every grain in the asphalt when all you really want to do is go home relaxed, you've served your bumps in the road for the day.
Lastly, I'm not very sure where all this techonolgy such as I drive is going? I mean, do I really need a stupid synthized voice telling me where to go? Don't you already begin driving in your car w/ a predestination already thought out? It's more complexity to driving, and on the streets of L.A. driving is hard enough. And I don't need to scroll trhough four to five sub menu's just to change a radio station. Lastly, I don't wanna spend a crap load of money on my car spending more time in the shop then on the road because of a faulty glitch from some overly complex electrical system , which I never really needed to being w/ but it was already there as a std. feat in car. Trust me, I've read many a horror story, but pawned it off as just a bad apple in the barrel situation, but in reality this is far from just an isolated incident.
So yes, I'm sure I'll get a proverbial tomatoe from one, or many members, but i could care less. At this point in time I'm begining to realize what cars are truly for, which is driving(Germans and other Euro brands add the adjective "pleasure") from point A to B and not all this other C-R-A-P inbetween. Cars are meant to be driven, not challenge(if a GT3 is too hard for you to pilot, then you're just not good enough a driver to drive it, period). How you get to where you're going should be a unique experience in itself, hence the reason why we have a ton of options to choose from. Please though, leave your "you really don't know where you're going but we do, so we're gonna hold you by the hand" humanoid made disasters out of it.
My rant is done. Kinda got off on a tangent, but hey, it's 11:30pm my time. Long day, lots of stuyding, lots of stress. Am I done w/ BMW? Um, no. Sick of BMW? Yes. So does this mean you won't buy a 3er Deutsch? Maybe...yes... maybe... no?

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Holy cow, Deutsch, what's the matter with you man ?!
Don't like the iDrive, buy one without it.
Don't like the style, buy something else.
Don't like those electro things, well, those things make the big euro cars handle like they do and not american muscle cars (= straight line but nothing else), and improve safety, and makes them consume less fuel and be more enviromental friendly.

 

[warot]

It makes perfect sense to me. Unless I'm totally wrong, the Audi A3 is not doing particularly well correct? If that's the case, why would BMW want to make the same decision? The other variants of the 1er is not even out yet. So if the coupe and convertible come out in Europe, it will naturally take some time for the cars to come to the US.

 

[warot]

I'm liking the sound of this. If only M could pull off an M1 but in low quantities to keep it from being as common as SUVs in the US or what not. I just don't want M to get too big and common. The M1 should be something special and rare! 3 liter inline 6 with 300hp and M steer/handling? Any takers? I think we would have quite a few.

PS. if you're reading this BMW, just do it!!

The only way they can do that is by increasing the price... and if they do less, that means less customers. If they are going to do an "M1", I think it will automatically make ///M more common.

 

[Porsche Guy]

The only way they can do that is by increasing the price... and if they do less, that means less customers. If they are going to do an "M1", I think it will automatically make ///M more common.

I doubt that BMW would price the M1 too close to the M3. I think that the second hand market for a low production M1 would be where you would see the price for such a car greatly exceed MSRP. It would be an instant classic! A modern day e30 M3.

 

[Matt]

Deutsch, you should have posted that in exhaust pipe. Although, If you dont like steering feel and good handling and the only importance of driving is getting from point A to Point B then you really cant consider yourself a driving enthusiast, but I know you really dont think that!

 

[Osnabrueck]

Even though I witnessed the success of the 1er on BMW's home turf I remain very apprehensive about the 1er's role in America.

Perceptions about premium car brands differ greatly on both sides of the Atlantic, and American consumers are extremely image/brand sensitive. Maybe it's not just that - perhaps it's also the perception that a badge like BMW implies a certain level of decorum, defined strictly by the price of entry.

I can't explain the how and why of it all, but I see things the same way as the average LA-area shlub, even though I know better.

This is my best theory - To affluent Americans, German cars have the very positive mystique of being imported. Not from some wierd noodle-eating country where kids bow at each other and trade pokemon cards for sex, but from some awesome beer-drinking country, where strongly-accented engineers work night and day perfecting the ultimate car taking breaks only to drink a Warsteiner and drive on the Autobahn at speeds in excess of 120mph. In this wonderful land of cars, everything is fast, powerful, luxurious and swathed in yards of leather. If you had the nerve to drive a Pontiac G6 down their precision-engineered roads they'd open fire on you with some kind of specially-built twin-turbo luxury tank with side-curtain airbags and all sorts of other standard features that they won't have in the states for years to come.

So - taking that in mind. What reinforces the sheer cool of these German cars? A high barrier of entry of course.

Therein lies the problem. If a BMW can be had for cheap, is it really powered magic fairy dust? It sure doesn't seem to bother Germans, who have been buying A3',s 1ers and the A-Klasse faster than you can say "Dunstabzugshaube."

Americans thrive on perception - and in this case specifically - their perception of German culture. As I see it, the only solution is the elimination of the 325i, pushing the cost of getting in a 3er up roughly $4k. That would make comfortable room on the bottom end to introduce the 1er as car for driving enthusiasts. However, and it's a big however - the US 1er must always sport a 6-cylinder engine, and come with enough standard do-dads to push the base price well into the high 20s. Anything starting at less than $27k stands to damage BMW's reputation stateside.

 

[Matt]

Even though I witnessed the success of the 1er on BMW's home turf I remain very apprehensive about the 1er's role in America.

Perceptions about premium car brands differ greatly on both sides of the Atlantic, and American consumers are extremely image/brand sensitive. Maybe it's not just that - perhaps it's also the perception that a badge like BMW implies a certain level of decorum, defined strictly by the price of entry.

I can't explain the how and why of it all, but I see things the same way as the average LA-area shlub, even though I know better.

This is my best theory - To affluent Americans, German cars have the very positive mystique of being imported. Not from some wierd noodle-eating country where kids bow at each other and trade pokemon cards for sex, but from some awesome beer-drinking country, where strongly-accented engineers work night and day perfecting the ultimate car taking breaks only to drink a Warsteiner and drive on the Autobahn at speeds in excess of 120mph. In this wonderful land of cars, everything is fast, powerful, luxurious and swathed in yards of leather. If you had the nerve to drive a Pontiac G6 down their precision-engineered roads they'd open fire on you with some kind of specially-built twin-turbo luxury tank with side-curtain airbags and all sorts of other standard features that they won't have in the states for years to come.

So - taking that in mind. What reinforces the sheer cool of these German cars? A high barrier of entry of course.

Therein lies the problem. If a BMW can be had for cheap, is it really powered magic fairy dust? It sure doesn't seem to bother Germans, who have been buying A3',s 1ers and the A-Klasse faster than you can say "Dunstabzugshaube."

Americans thrive on perception - and in this case specifically - their perception of German culture. As I see it, the only solution is the elimination of the 325i, pushing the cost of getting in a 3er up roughly $4k. That would make comfortable room on the bottom end to introduce the 1er as car for driving enthusiasts. However, and it's a big however - the US 1er must always sport a 6-cylinder engine, and come with enough standard do-dads to push the base price well into the high 20s. Anything starting at less than $27k stands to damage BMW's reputation stateside.

Haha. Excellent post. I agree with how Americans view German brands mostly because I too am a Los Angelos Shlub. But, you have to remember how successful the Mini has been here (especially in So Cal) and 9/10 people know its a BMW product. I also dont think an affordable BMW that everyone can aspire to own is going to hurt the image because all BMW products are good, even the 1. The quality in the interior of the one is right up there with the others. BMW never slaps anything together, which is why its image may be a little better than Merc's at this point.

 

[Deutsch]

Deutsch, you should have posted that in exhaust pipe. Although, If you dont like steering feel and good handling and the only importance of driving is getting from point A to Point B then you really cant consider yourself a driving enthusiast, but I know you really dont think that!

Recall my words, seems as if you've overlooked them:

How you get to where you're going should be a unique experience in itself, hence the reason why we have a ton of options to choose from.

I do look like a pleasure full, dynamic driving experience w/ meety steering. Just the same there are a host of other decerining consumers that wish to avoid such an experience, believe it or not. I love BMW's philosiphy of a no nonsense driving experience and expressive design. Believe me though, I can more than do w/ out a myriad of electronic devices that are designed w/ good intentions, intentions of making the driving experience easier and more intuitive to my needs. But in the end we all know that none of these work as well as the R&D teams who designed them have hoped for. I want simplicity in my car, which means nothing more than a radio, host of airbags, traction control, among a few other basic electronics, maybe a nav system for the hell of it, just for passengers to look at and leave me along if I don't wanna be bogthered while I'm driving. I sure as hell don't need anyone to hold my hand, that's why I have a liscence and have yet to ever recieve a ticket*knocking on wood as we speak*. Keep things pre "Bangalized"(just denoting the generation) where the cars didn't have I drive and all the other gizmo wizardry and I'll be a more than happy man.

 

[Deutsch]

Even though I witnessed the success of the 1er on BMW's home turf I remain very apprehensive about the 1er's role in America.

Perceptions about premium car brands differ greatly on both sides of the Atlantic, and American consumers are extremely image/brand sensitive. Maybe it's not just that - perhaps it's also the perception that a badge like BMW implies a certain level of decorum, defined strictly by the price of entry.

I can't explain the how and why of it all, but I see things the same way as the average LA-area shlub, even though I know better.

This is my best theory - To affluent Americans, German cars have the very positive mystique of being imported. Not from some wierd noodle-eating country where kids bow at each other and trade pokemon cards for sex, but from some awesome beer-drinking country, where strongly-accented engineers work night and day perfecting the ultimate car taking breaks only to drink a Warsteiner and drive on the Autobahn at speeds in excess of 120mph. In this wonderful land of cars, everything is fast, powerful, luxurious and swathed in yards of leather. If you had the nerve to drive a Pontiac G6 down their precision-engineered roads they'd open fire on you with some kind of specially-built twin-turbo luxury tank with side-curtain airbags and all sorts of other standard features that they won't have in the states for years to come.

So - taking that in mind. What reinforces the sheer cool of these German cars? A high barrier of entry of course.

Therein lies the problem. If a BMW can be had for cheap, is it really powered magic fairy dust? It sure doesn't seem to bother Germans, who have been buying A3',s 1ers and the A-Klasse faster than you can say "Dunstabzugshaube."

Americans thrive on perception - and in this case specifically - their perception of German culture. As I see it, the only solution is the elimination of the 325i, pushing the cost of getting in a 3er up roughly $4k. That would make comfortable room on the bottom end to introduce the 1er as car for driving enthusiasts. However, and it's a big however - the US 1er must always sport a 6-cylinder engine, and come with enough standard do-dads to push the base price well into the high 20s. Anything starting at less than $27k stands to damage BMW's reputation stateside.

I think the "1er canabolizing 3er sales" theory is a bunch of very much basless agrumentation just for the sake of giving a camp of self concious indivduals something to talk about and feel justified in their minds. If Americans can get around public preception and their own insecurities driving beind the wheel of a compact car that actually costs something, then, only THEN might BMW have a winner on its' hands. It honestly wouldn't take that much. Price the car at $24k, offer a coupe and convertible, a few confidently priced option packs and a traditional BMW inline six, no need to mention all the other traditional BMW traits that make the cars so popular. Need more be said? If you want a sedan get a 3, why the heck would you want a uber compact sedan anyway? As for the hatch, go back to the begining of this post.

 

[Porsche Guy]

How BMW markets the 1 series in America is really what is important. Like Osnabrueck said, there is certainly an image that is associated with BMW, although I doubt everyone shares the exact same image. Obviously the high regard of German engineering plays heavily in their favor. Brand image is hugely important, just look at this forum! Are german cars good? Of course, but it's not like they're so far ahead of the competition that no one can catch up. They just play to a certain market, and do that rather well. It's hard for a new brand to establish itself amongst such powerful players. VW is trying hard to cash in on its german engineering/heritage with its lastest Golf GTI adds. Of course, the high price of entry is one of BMW's selling point, but the same goes for Audi and MB. If everyone can afford a BMW then that certainly hurts the appeal. Do you want to buy a 90K Oldsmobile even if it as good as an S class or 7 series? VW doesn't even sell the Phaeton in the US anymore because sales were so sluggish and that car was very well done. I'm not saying that exclusivity is the only factor in purchasing a car, but I think it plays heavily into the decision. People in America want to drive a car that not only drives good but also screams how successful they are. If BMW is really serious about expanding its lineup downmarket, especially in America, I think it would be wise to copy Japanese manufacturers and develop a whole new brand. Look how Toyota has Lexus for its luxury cars. BMW should do just the opposite and develope a low end brand or maybe expand the Mini one as it is already quite well established.

 

[Matt]

Recall my words, seems as if you've overlooked them:



I do look like a pleasure full, dynamic driving experience w/ meety steering. Just the same there are a host of other decerining consumers that wish to avoid such an experience, believe it or not. I love BMW's philosiphy of a no nonsense driving experience and expressive design. Believe me though, I can more than do w/ out a myriad of electronic devices that are designed w/ good intentions, intentions of making the driving experience easier and more intuitive to my needs. But in the end we all know that none of these work as well as the R&D teams who designed them have hoped for. I want simplicity in my car, which means nothing more than a radio, host of airbags, traction control, among a few other basic electronics, maybe a nav system for the hell of it, just for passengers to look at and leave me along if I don't wanna be bogthered while I'm driving. I sure as hell don't need anyone to hold my hand, that's why I have a liscence and have yet to ever recieve a ticket*knocking on wood as we speak*. Keep things pre "Bangalized"(just denoting the generation) where the cars didn't have I drive and all the other gizmo wizardry and I'll be a more than happy man.

But you said it yourself, that sometimes a driver doesnt want to feel every bump in the road after a difficult day at work but your complaining about techonology that allows one to adjust the suspension so the ride is softer and less rigid... I really dont see your argument..

oh god and dont listen to JC. Porsche Guy and I have both driven the M5 and
I can tell you the car is simple to use. I drive is intuitive and the car doesnt suddenly tell you destinations like it did on Top Gear. JC is just anti BMW and just wanted something to complain about.

 

[Deutsch]

BMW doesn't really market it's car(they do), but the cars do the marketing themselves. Regardless, especially here in L.A., people WILL buy a 1er hatch, because it's a BMW.

 

[Deutsch]

But you said it yourself, that sometimes a driver doesnt want to feel every bump in the road after a difficult day at work but your complaining about techonology that allows one to adjust the suspension so the ride is softer and less rigid... I really dont see your argument..

oh god and dont listen to JC. Porsche Guy and I have both driven the M5 and
I can tell you the car is simple to use. I drive is intuitive and the car doesnt suddenly tell you destinations. JC is just anti BMW and just wanted something to complain about.

You're throwing all sorts of twists into my arguemtn that were never there go begin w/. When I talk about feeling every grain in the road, it's just that, i've actually spoken w/ several white collar execs whom make an ungodly amount of money, could buy a Bentely and a Porsche CGT, but they're wiser w/ their money than to just spend it frivilously on just anything. These are the indivduals that have expressed this sentiment to me. So in a way I'm speaking for them. Do they own Bimmers now? Two of them, yes. When I speak of useless tech, I'm talkinb about crap like "I drive" (give me a reg. aat/nav, sheezus), "PRE SAFE", and all the countless other acronyms and what other names are out there for these wanna be palm reader waiting to go psychotic systems. I think I'm one of a precious few here that see's no reason to ride a bandwagon because others may hold a bit more cred. than I do w/ their line of work. I know my cars, take what I say, or leave it. I get tired of constantly having to defend my points. Trying to explain myself so that others can understand where my very much original arguments stem from.

 

[warot]

Haha. Excellent post. I agree with how Americans view German brands mostly because I too am a Los Angelos Shlub. But, you have to remember how successful the Mini has been here (especially in So Cal) and 9/10 people know its a BMW product. I also dont think an affordable BMW that everyone can aspire to own is going to hurt the image because all BMW products are good, even the 1. The quality in the interior of the one is right up there with the others. BMW never slaps anything together, which is why its image may be a little better than Merc's at this point.

Well people might know that a MIni has BMW DNA, the pricetag still dictates that it's a higher end car in its segment. Last time I checked, a Mini Cooper is hardly a bargain.

 

[Merc1]

Haha. Excellent post. I agree with how Americans view German brands mostly because I too am a Los Angelos Shlub. But, you have to remember how successful the Mini has been here (especially in So Cal) and 9/10 people know its a BMW product. I also dont think an affordable BMW that everyone can aspire to own is going to hurt the image because all BMW products are good, even the 1. The quality in the interior of the one is right up there with the others. BMW never slaps anything together, which is why its image may be a little better than Merc's at this point.

Grudingly I agree. Mercedes sold it soul for volume with the first generation M-Class and several other products of that time (not to mention the recently departed C hatchback) that were not up to snuff and now they're paying for it, even though their recent products are much better and in line with what a MB should be when it comes to build quality. You're absolutely right though. BMW isn't going to half-arse do the 1-Series, especially in the U.S. I'm sure they're reminded of the 318ti debacle all the time. Their image is on the mend it seems, but BMW is on fire in most people's minds.

M