Human
You. The Road. Nothing else.
Can you recall the reason why (my X1 has aluminum lower wishbones rear) and the F30's has steel ones now? Remember the F30's chassis photos in the F30 official thread.
7 Series (G11/G12) [Spy shots] BMW 7er (G11) Spy Pics & Info
- Thread starter tristatez28lt1
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The G11/G12 is the sixth generation of the BMW 7 Series, produced from 2015 to 2022. Consists of the BMW G11 (short-wheelbase version) and BMW G12 (long-wheelbase version) luxury saloons, collectively referred to as the G11.
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Can you recall the reason why (my X1 has aluminum lower wishbones rear) and the F30's has steel ones now? Remember the F30's chassis photos in the F30 official thread.
Giannis
Staff member
Steel rear wishbones for the rear? This seems odd, given BMW's history with aluminum suspension components.
Human
You. The Road. Nothing else.
Seek and you shall find
@martinbo had the same question back then and @EnI said:
And also space saving + better durability & strength. Steel still has some other advantages over aluminum beside lower costs.
I've read high-tense steel is eg. used for items that require extreme strength & durability - eg. where expected loads are high and/or constant. Since sometimes it's easier (from engineering point of view) to use high-strength steel instead of aluminum because you can reduce the thickness of the material (for the same max. load requirements) , and save some space - although the weight is a bit higher then.
Edit: @Giannis ask and answered then.
SCOTT27
Drift Dynamo
It is entirely feasible . BMW have invested in the development of mass-volume CFRP for use in BMWi to filter downwards towards volume production models.
The next generation 7er not only utilises CFRP in the structure and platform but in the roof , bonnet , trunk and door panels as well as in key components such as the suspension etc.
The interesting thing is that it has opened the doors for a new 8er. Which has recently begun conception in Munich , the larger X7 SAV under evaluation also makes use of the same engineering. As well as been utilised for the next generation of Rolls-Royce cars, the use of material technology will filter downwards to the next generation BMW 5er and 6er. And of course there is great advantage to the BMW M. Division.
The most significant thing about BMWs development of mass volume CFRP is that manufacturers from other industries are queuing up to negotiate contracts to purchase which will allow BMW to reclaim its initial investment.
BMW have started conception on a new 8er family to sit above and sustain the next BMW 7er. The family will consist of a Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe.
Exclusively with V8 and V12 and A more powerful Tri-Turbo diesel.
The response is based on the well received reaction of the BMW-Pinifarina Collaboration - The Gran Lusso at the recent Concorso d'eleganza.
That car utilised similar design elements to the current outline of the BMW 6er Coupe and the new BMW 4er Coupe , and showcases how a large coupe would fit in with the numerical and product consistency - 2, 4, 6, 8 and Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe.
Although the car will not be a complete carry over of the Gran Lusso although it utilises the same ideas , it will offer distinctive style , presence and high end luxury to bridge the BMW brand to the Rolls-Royce brand.
An M variant is also a possibility.
The next generation 7er not only utilises CFRP in the structure and platform but in the roof , bonnet , trunk and door panels as well as in key components such as the suspension etc.
The interesting thing is that it has opened the doors for a new 8er. Which has recently begun conception in Munich , the larger X7 SAV under evaluation also makes use of the same engineering. As well as been utilised for the next generation of Rolls-Royce cars, the use of material technology will filter downwards to the next generation BMW 5er and 6er. And of course there is great advantage to the BMW M. Division.
The most significant thing about BMWs development of mass volume CFRP is that manufacturers from other industries are queuing up to negotiate contracts to purchase which will allow BMW to reclaim its initial investment.
BMW have started conception on a new 8er family to sit above and sustain the next BMW 7er. The family will consist of a Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe.
Exclusively with V8 and V12 and A more powerful Tri-Turbo diesel.
The response is based on the well received reaction of the BMW-Pinifarina Collaboration - The Gran Lusso at the recent Concorso d'eleganza.
That car utilised similar design elements to the current outline of the BMW 6er Coupe and the new BMW 4er Coupe , and showcases how a large coupe would fit in with the numerical and product consistency - 2, 4, 6, 8 and Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe.
Although the car will not be a complete carry over of the Gran Lusso although it utilises the same ideas , it will offer distinctive style , presence and high end luxury to bridge the BMW brand to the Rolls-Royce brand.
An M variant is also a possibility.
Giannis
Staff member
Hmm.
Optimization is not a simple procedure, so that we can figure out the best solution by exchanging thoughts. Simulation tests and extensive calculations are necessary to find the optimum design, cross section and material, so there's no way we can know what was the reason. My educated guess would be that the kinematics dictated the parts' design and given the design (and the demanded amount of material) it was cheaper to make the parts out of steel, instead of aluminum.
Still, it's kind of weird for the rear suspension to be from steel and the front to be from aluminum, as mostly the front suspension has much higher loads (you'll hit something with the front suspension first, then the impact at the rear will be reduced).
The main issue with aluminum wishbones, apart from the fact that you can't replace the bushing at the outer end, is the fact that when aluminum fails, it cracks and breaks into pieces. It's very very brittle, compared to the very ductile steel. So, imagine that you hit a big pothole with your car, hard enough to bend your wheel. Your steel wishbone would just bend, while there would be a chance that you aluminum wishbone breaks and you have to find where your wheel has landed.
Optimization is not a simple procedure, so that we can figure out the best solution by exchanging thoughts. Simulation tests and extensive calculations are necessary to find the optimum design, cross section and material, so there's no way we can know what was the reason. My educated guess would be that the kinematics dictated the parts' design and given the design (and the demanded amount of material) it was cheaper to make the parts out of steel, instead of aluminum.
Still, it's kind of weird for the rear suspension to be from steel and the front to be from aluminum, as mostly the front suspension has much higher loads (you'll hit something with the front suspension first, then the impact at the rear will be reduced).
The main issue with aluminum wishbones, apart from the fact that you can't replace the bushing at the outer end, is the fact that when aluminum fails, it cracks and breaks into pieces. It's very very brittle, compared to the very ductile steel. So, imagine that you hit a big pothole with your car, hard enough to bend your wheel. Your steel wishbone would just bend, while there would be a chance that you aluminum wishbone breaks and you have to find where your wheel has landed.
Human
You. The Road. Nothing else.
That's a positive mouthful and so much the worlds top Premium Brand has still to offer. The Germans and in particular the Bavarians, you gotta love'em
That's a positive mouthful and so much the worlds top Premium Brand has still to offer. The Germans and in particular the Bavarians, you gotta love'em
At work you would not love the Germans as much, and in particular the Bavarians. Very different working culture.
bimmerjph
Diesel Dynamiker
I take it the SL competitor got canned then considering you did not mention it.
SCOTT27
Drift Dynamo
Separate entity. Its not based on the 7er.
bimmerjph
Diesel Dynamiker
Gottcha. So has a decision been made on it yet though?
Yes, it will come, once BMW will have another 15 FWD cars, 10 other SUVs and 5 other electric vehicles.
Human
You. The Road. Nothing else.
OCD, precision, perfection, has strict timelines, customs, behaviors and traditions and an eye for detail. Very clever people.
That's me a Bavarian at heart
klier
Premium
OCD, precision, perfection, has strict timelines, customs, behaviors and traditions and an eye for detail. Very clever people.
That's me a Bavarian at heart
And and I think Levi is French....and we all know about the French work ethic.....(hey, I didn't start this utter nonsense, Levi did again)
Back on topic:
Autoweek.nl is reporting today (via Autocar I believe) that the target weight of the G11 (due out IAA 2015) is lower than the current F10 5 series.
Sounds sooooooo goooooood......
OCD, precision, perfection, has strict timelines, and an eye for detail. Very clever people.
That's me a Bavarian at heart
"eye for detail"/"perfection": Haha, I think you have not seen the latest BMW's in detail to see how little attention to detail is paid thanks to cost reduction in the hope the customer won't notice that, and you are the perfect example that is works. Never seen such imperfect BMW's ever.
"precision": Haha, yeah for sure, razor-sharp steering precision in latest BMWs...
"strict timelines": Haha, about a decade has passed, and the M Supercar isn't even on the drawing board. Sure, BMW is busy building FWDs. Same for the Z2, but good it turned to FWD, now it is really coming.
"clever people": Haha, more clever than from Stuttgart? I spare naming all the people at BMW that come from Stuttgart.
"customs, behaviors and traditions": Finally I'll agree on that. Nothing more fun than Oktoberfest, until you don't talk about BMW.
That is what they said about the current generation.
SCOTT27
Drift Dynamo
Difficult considering F01 was 2008 and F10 was 2009.
bmw 745d
Schwarzwald Sprinter
Fact is that BMW makes to many cost reductions. A very nice example is the BMW F01 LCI and the upcoming F10 LCI. Compare these to the pre LCI model and you will find a lot details, that feel cheaper.
So BMW has really to be carefull in what they are doing on the detail.
Now back to the G11 please.
So BMW has really to be carefull in what they are doing on the detail.
Now back to the G11 please.
Gianclaudio
Aerodynamic Artisan
Fact is that BMW makes to many cost reductions. A very nice example is the BMW F01 LCI and the upcoming F10 LCI. Compare these to the pre LCI model and you will find a lot details, that feel cheaper.
So BMW has really to be carefull in what they are doing on the detail.
Now back to the G11 please.
can you elaborate?
bmw 745d
Schwarzwald Sprinter
I can give you some examples.
The chrome on the bumpers are a lot thinner. I know one F01 LCI where the chrome bar even loosened it self!
The back pocket of the seats aren't massive anymore. Now there is only a frame with artificial leather or leather.
The sunblinds got even thinner.
The ceramic buttons feel cheaper to the pre facelift ones.
The comfort seats haven't got that much heated area anymore.
What BMW does aswell, is using much more artificial leather on the Dakota leather interior. But this has started already 2008.
Somebody told me a couple of weeks ago, that BMW did a lot of cost savings on the f10 lCI aswell. He said mostly it isn't in the technical area.
The chrome on the bumpers are a lot thinner. I know one F01 LCI where the chrome bar even loosened it self!
The back pocket of the seats aren't massive anymore. Now there is only a frame with artificial leather or leather.
The sunblinds got even thinner.
The ceramic buttons feel cheaper to the pre facelift ones.
The comfort seats haven't got that much heated area anymore.
What BMW does aswell, is using much more artificial leather on the Dakota leather interior. But this has started already 2008.
Somebody told me a couple of weeks ago, that BMW did a lot of cost savings on the f10 lCI aswell. He said mostly it isn't in the technical area.
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BMW
Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, abbreviated as BMW is a German multinational
manufacturer of luxury vehicles and motorcycles headquartered in Munich, Bavaria, Germany.
The company was founded in 1916 as a manufacturer of aircraft engines, which it produced
from 1917 to 1918 and again from 1933 to 1945.
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)
