M3/M4 [Official] BMW M3 Sedan and M4 Coupe

[Zafiro]

Big words coming from BMW

Carsten Pries BMW M division -
I don't feel like I'm at risk of over promising when I tell you that no one is ready for this engine. I wasn't prepared. The engine is an animal. The engine has shocking capabilities.

 

[bmwownage]

The design of the 4-series inherently is somewhat on the generic, cookie-cutter and uninspiring side. Then they tried to throw all of these tacky elements for the M4 to make it look aggressive.

Those strange vents cutting in many different directions at the front and back. The unnecessary hood bulge for the sake of putting a bulge (we know the engine is not any bigger than the N54 or N55 physical and the open hood picture validates that) make it all look like a complete mess.

Well it's up to opinion, to me the front spoiler/bumper has lines that aligns well with their M pack designs and those vents are probably more practical than you think. The bulge had been a M3 thing since the E46, and imo it is already quite understated given what it is, especially vs the competition. If there is anything about the design, i think the 4er is OK but the 3er imo has a bit of fundamental design issues, the front end deserve a much more modern / radical roofline.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

That exterior colour on the M4 is rather fetching and works well with the wheel combo. What is that colour - looks like space grey to me.

It's 'Mineral Grey' @martinbo

 

[martinbo]

Thanks Betty - was never big on the colour chart thing.

 

[martinbo]

The design of the 4-series inherently is somewhat on the generic, cookie-cutter and uninspiring side. Then they tried to throw all of these tacky elements for the M4 to make it look aggressive.

Those strange vents cutting in many different directions at the front and back. The unnecessary hood bulge for the sake of putting a bulge (we know the engine is not any bigger than the N54 or N55 physical and the open hood picture validates that) make it all look like a complete mess.

A couple of things regarding the "hood bulge". You state that this is unnecessary because the engine is not any bigger than that of the N54 or N55 - you can surely only be referring to physical engine size relative to the displacement. Therefore, the hood bulge is superfluous by your judgement and you're wrong in this regard.

Actually, the inlet system and its packaging is quite different from the N54/55; the S55 makes use of a charge cooler (water-to-air) mounted high up in the engine bay - yes, you guessed it - under that unnecessary hood bulge. This is opposed to the air-to-air intercooler system of the N54/55 where the intercooler itself is mounted behind the front bumper. The nature of the packaging of this charge cooler and its associated plumbing (running over the valvetrain cover) renders the hood bulge entirely functional.

So too is the new M addenda on the lower bumper - the side vents direct an air curtain around the front wheels for improved aerodynamics.

 

[330CIZHP]

A couple of things regarding the "hood bulge". You state that this is unnecessary because the engine is not any bigger than that of the N54 or N55 - you can surely only be referring to physical engine size relative to the displacement. Therefore, the hood bulge is superfluous by your judgement and you're wrong in this regard.

Nice technical details. However, as I had stated very clearly in my post, I have to go by what the photographic evidence is telling me. None of the technical information you wrote is relevant to my point. I am not provoking any argument. Just explaining why I see it as merely cosmetic.

Clearly, from all of the angles of pictures I have seen of the engine bay, the hood bulge is only cosmetic. There is more than enough clearance available for the top of the engine and no I am not wrong in this respect (to state the disclaimer, my own personaly opinion, before I get jumped like I did once previously).

Look at the sides of the engine bay that are clearly much higher than the top of the engine valve cover. Plus hood inherently is curved up in the middle, which give additional clearance.

This picture is the perfect example of that. For me, that constitutes cosmetic feature - 100%




Comparing that to the S65 with similar sized hood bulge and the height of the top of the valve cover and how far it sticks up compared to where the hood sits on the sides, I could really see how the hood bulge was completely functional.

 

[Sunny]

The intercooler is going to be much hotter than the sides probably necessitating higher clearance. Or may be it is cosmetic. I don't know. It is been M3 trademark for 3 generations now and it is nice touch like the hofmeister kink. It is not like modern cars are devoid of have cosmetic doodads. Look at Lexus RC Z for for a surplus of it.

 

[330CIZHP]

. Look at Lexus RC Z for for a surplus of it.

Huh? What is RC Z? Do you mean RC-F? What exactly are you pointing towards that is not functional? Just curious.

 

[Sunny]

^Yes, RC F. And everything... starting with for Nike woosh, the predator grill, the gazillion lines and cuts on the rear and the grandest of all - the Amoeba shaped headlights on the IS sedan. Are you telling me all the shapes have a function and not aesthetic (though I admit it is stretching the definition of the aestheticism to describe any of the said items, but that is a different argument...).

 

[330CIZHP]

^Yes, RC F. And everything... starting with for Nike woosh, the predator grill, the gazillion lines and cuts on the rear and the grandest of all - the Amoeba shaped headlights on the IS sedan. Are you telling me all the shapes have a function and not aesthetic (though I admit it is stretching the definition of the aestheticism to describe any of the said items, but that is a different argument...).

Yeah, that is a separate topic. Those are aesthetic styling elements, which I don't see any problems with those subjective elements.

Completely different than any of the bulges that are generic functional elements whether they are around the fenders or on the hood (or in some cases on the roof).

 

[Sunny]

Yeah, that is a separate topic. Those are aesthetic styling elements, which I don't see any problems with those subjective elements.

Completely different than any of the bulges that are generic functional elements whether they are around the fenders or on the hood (or in some cases on the roof).

Translation - I don't have any problem with what my favorite car brand does and will come up with convoluted reasoning to narrowly define and excuse what it does while criticizing something similar in another brand.
I mean seriously, how is a grill any different from a hood? both are functional external elements on a car that are also used by designers as design elements - in this case for an outlandish predator style grill in one car and a subtle hood bulge in the other.

 

[330CIZHP]

Sure, attack me all you want. This is ridiculous, seriously. It is laughable how you deemed Lexus "my favorite brand" simply because I dared to dislike something in the M4 and voiced my opinions on it (I don't remember anyone getting trashed like that on the thread for the car where people were openly disliking the RC-F so much. Do you?).

I have praised a few specific cars and what they have done with that so that automatically makes it my favorite brand. Right? Did you ever see me praising the RX, GX, LX, ES etc.? Or even the IS250? I always liked the M3 more over the IS-F. Look up my history and report back.

Sure, politicize it all you want, but that is only a pathetic effort when the other person has been nothing, but respectful towards you.

The fact that you are taking a grille and comparing that to a hood bulge, makes it completely pointless for me to argue when the license plate mounting point is in the middle of the mesh grille with a bumper behind it.

Translation - I don't have any problem with what my favorite car brand does and will come up with convoluted reasoning to narrowly define and excuse what it does while criticizing something similar in another brand.
I mean seriously, how is a grill any different from a hood? both are functional external elements on a car that are also used by designers as design elements - in this case for an outlandish predator style grill in one car and a subtle hood bulge in the other.

 

[Sunny]

Sure, politicize it all you want, but that is only a pathetic effort when the other person has been nothing, but respectful towards you.

Where was I disrespectful to you? I just called it the way I see it. If you found that disrespectful, I didn't mean to be.

You think the hood is somehow different from a grill and shouldn't be used as a design element, so be it. I think otherwise.

 

[330CIZHP]

Where was I disrespectful to you? I just called it the way I see it. If you found that disrespectful, I didn't mean to be.

You think the hood is somehow different from a grill and shouldn't be used as a design element, so be it. I think otherwise.

You accused me of being biased in favor of a brand I never even mentioned in this thread until you brought it up. Yet, you are asking me where you were disrespectful? I mean, come on!

The car that you disliked so much, why don't go you and look at that entire thread and see for all the people laughing and mocking that car, any single person ever declaring "you are a German car biased fan" or something to that effect. Please do that.

It is just that for once in the entire thread , I wrote my impressions of the design elements of the M4 and that resulted in being called a "biased fan of another brand" simply because I picked out a few design elements I did not like. Laughable.

 

[Monster]

Designs are very subjective so this debate will never end...As far as I see, nobody is being deliberately disrespectful to anyone here. Everyone has their favorite brand on this forum, it is absolutely fine.

 

[Sunny]

You accused me of being biased in favor of a brand I never even mentioned in this thread until you brought it up. Yet, you are asking me where you were disrespectful? I mean, come on!

The car that you disliked so much, why don't go you and look at that entire thread and see for all the people laughing and mocking that car, any single person ever declaring "you are a German car biased fan" or something to that effect. Please do that.

It is just that for once in the entire thread , I wrote my impressions of the design elements of the M4 and that resulted in being called a "biased fan of another brand" simply because I picked out a few design elements I did not like. Laughable.

This thread doesn't exist in isolation in this forum. Most reasonable people following your posts in this forum will assume Lexus is your favorite brand. And there is nothing wrong with it, I don't know why you are shying from it or being so defensive about it. And yes, I am biased to German cars - especially BMW and Porsche. Which is why I am here in germancarforum.com. I am not shying or running away from it. And it absolutely colors my opinion of other cars nor does it prevent me from appreciating other cars either. The very reason I like RC-F's interior is cause it looks very German to me and for the same reason I dislike the haphazard exterior.

As for criticizing your opinion of certain M4 design elements, yes I found it hypocritical, so I pointed it out.

 

[martinbo]

@330CIZHP - Hold your horses pal. You have no position from which to launch a tirade against the people counter-posting to your statements. It was YOU who waded into this thread and chose to state:

A:

The design of the 4-series inherently is somewhat on the generic, cookie-cutter and uninspiring side. Then they tried to throw all of these tacky elements for the M4 to make it look aggressive.

Those strange vents cutting in many different directions at the front and back. The unnecessary hood bulge for the sake of putting a bulge (we know the engine is not any bigger than the N54 or N55 physical and the open hood picture validates that) make it all look like a complete mess.

You state that the hood bulge of the F80 is unnecessary as a fact. No arguments - you said this without any appreciation for the real differences between the S55 Motorsport engine and the N54/N55 engines.
To which I refuted your opinion citing logical and factual reasons. Your trite retort followed:

B:

Nice technical details. However, as I had stated very clearly in my post, I have to go by what the photographic evidence is telling me. None of the technical information you wrote is relevant to my point. I am not provoking any argument. Just explaining why I see it as merely cosmetic.

Clearly, from all of the angles of pictures I have seen of the engine bay, the hood bulge is only cosmetic. There is more than enough clearance available for the top of the engine and no I am not wrong in this respect (to state the disclaimer, my own personaly opinion, before I get jumped like I did once previously).

Look at the sides of the engine bay that are clearly much higher than the top of the engine valve cover. Plus hood inherently is curved up in the middle, which give additional clearance.

This picture is the perfect example of that. For me, that constitutes cosmetic feature - 100%

All of the above is conjecture on your part. You have not seen the cars in person nor conducted any proper measurements. You are basing your opinion on photographs alone and you are WRONG. You are attempting to justify your criticism of the BMW F80's styling as being factually sound.

Now, don't take my word word for it. Here's what the BMW Press Release says:

Among the other hallmark BMW M design features on display is the characteristic power dome on the hood, which hints at the potential of the brawny M TwinPower Turbo engine and creates space for the intercooler.

And then some random dude* who went to interview BMW about the F80 had this to report: [* BMW M regularly invites random nobodies to extol the virtues of their pride and joy to...]

There is an electromechanical wastegate and a large intercooler, which sits atop the engine - and which is the reason for the massive bulge on the M3/M4's aluminum hood.

But of course, you have done your photographic assessment so perhaps everyone else is wrong. What you cannot argue is that there is no other engine in the world featured like the S55, nor packaged like it. Let's just say that in the most cynical (and evidently, improbable) of circumstances the only purpose for the hood bulge is for BMW to stylistically indicate that there is a very different and special engine under the hood then this, by implication of the word purpose, would render the hood bulge entirely functional.

You haven't got a leg to stand on.

Oh and by the way:

Comparing that to the S65 with similar sized hood bulge and the height of the top of the valve cover and how far it sticks up compared to where the hood sits on the sides, I could really see how the hood bulge was completely functional.

If we're going to get technical; that's not a valve cover (these sit off atop the banks of the V8) that's the inlet plenum for the S65's multi-throttle body induction system - a BMW NA engine hallmark for decades.
I find it ironic that the the S54 in the E46 M car series got a power bulge too yet the actual packaging of the engine warranted this less than today's S55.

 

[Deckhook]

Whilst I agree with Martin that there's enough information out there to prove it's an engineering necessity but who really cares if the power dome is real or fake, it's part of the M3's DNA in the same way as quad pipes and you can't really have one without the other.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

But of course, you have done your photographic assessment so perhaps everyone else is wrong.

On top of everything you have said, the EU pedestrian safety regulations about how much space there has to be between the engine and the bonnet may have increased in the six years between the E92 M3 and F80 M3.

 

[Giannis]

May I also add that EU safety regulations demand a minimum distance between the hood and the hard parts of the engine, i.e. the top of the engine. If the engine already goes high enough, then a bulge serves a second purpose, that of providing this minimum distance that guarantees a certain level of deformability, necessary for the pedestrian safety approval.

Edit: Betty had the same thing in his mind. Great minds think alike they say!