i3 First Spyshots Ever: BMW i3

[NarutoRamen]

It looks like a Smart banged a Mini. Also, got a hand it to bombardier, it really does look like a japanese car.

 

[EnI]

BMW fanboys need to wake up. The much applauded i3 is an uglier Toyota IQ. God those pillars in the front side windows are ugly !!

Still off the pills?


Guys ... this prototype is still heavily clad with plastic camo panels completely taped with masking tape. As the general shape is concerned - Haven't you figured the shape out from all the sketches? It's the same shape. What else did you expect? A sportscoupe?

It was said many many times the car WILL NOT be a microcar ala Smart, and will be more of a BMW's "A2".

 

[coolraoul]

I love the A2's design. It's technically a disaster (rigidity of a bubble-gum), but the design is still so fresh and nice!

The i3 seems quite cute to me, sure it's kinda Japanese, but that's to be expected since they rule the microcar/midgets segment since decades.

And as it's a new brand, it won't look like a standard BMW, that's the whole point of it. Being free of the BMW conventions, start with fresh ideas, also in terms of design.

 

[EnI]

Mind this van-like boxy design is a just an execution of "form follows function" principle.

The EV CFRP-based LifeDrive modular design, combined with functional cabin & trunk space gives you such a design, such a basic shape. It's an optimal shape for such a vehicle of such a size for such a purpose.

Sure there can be, and will be different variations of EV & hybrids within BMW i line-up. Eg. i8 is a proof shape can be completely different when different purpose of the vehicle is in question. And i8 design also follows form-folloes-function principle - as you can see the car is more starched than initial VED car (longer rear): all to improve & optimize the aerodynamics. Same case with large diameter yet narrower tires, special aero rims, (active) aerowings etc.

i3 will - when it's presented as a Concept later this year - prove to be an object of admiration. Just like i8 / VED has been. Yet i3 Concept will be closer to the production vehicle than VED Concept is!

i3 design & styling - just like the one of i8 - will be quite futuristic. It will be very close to the sketches published @ BMW i brand launch.

i3 is far from being "BMW's Multipla" - it will be instantly recognized as a BMW car yet within another dimension. With some line-specific design elements (blue kidney grille frame, BMW roundel within blue circle, specific front & rear lights graphics, typical i rocker panel, C-pillar with AirFlow element ... not to mention special BMW i color themes & combinations), EV specific architecture, futuristic appearance etc.


Why "BMW i" instead if "BMW isetta"?

Because BMW didn't want to introduce another retro (sub)brand to the automotive world. And there's already on in the BMw Group portfolio: its called MINI. And there will be EV MINI models as well. And mini MINIs etc. So - one retro EV line is enough, don't you think?

BMW i a step into the future, not into the past. Therfore futurism instead of retro. And BMW i is more appropriate marketing vessel for introducing different kinds & types of vehicles. Can you imagine a VED-based car being named eg. BMW isetta 1000? I don't. While within BMW i i3 & i8 can coexist without any doubt & problem. So can eg. i1 and i9.

Also: isetta wasn't a technological wonder in particular. Or a "vehicle of the future". It was a funny & funky car-like vehicle. Cheap, a provisional mobility solution for the masses at that particular time. Something BMW i3 is not. i8 even less. All what isetta has is the funkiness & instant recognition as microsized bubble car. Something project i cars are not.

Therefore decision for BMW i instead of (BMW) isetta, although isetta revival was seriously considered untiled ruled out due to not being a flexible enough platform for all the upcoming EV & hybrid cars BMW plan to offer. Creating a new sub-brand (a bit more distinctive Series) within BMW was a more logical & proper solution. BMW family brand helps to boost instant recognition & gives you a certain guarantee, while "i" sub-brand is there to differentiate, bringing something new, something different from regular, standard BMW cars. Just like the M sub-brand does: although not in design. i is therefore a stretch further, since there will be a significant different in design as well. Not to mention selling the cars under BMW family brand will boost BMW brand sales a bit. Not so if this was a separate brand like eg. MINI. It's also move how to prevent rivals to top BMW @ #1 place as best selling premium automotive brand.

Why "i"? Not because i is hip at this moment due to Apple products - being a synonym for user-friendly state-of-the-art technical innovation. But because "i" within BMW has a long tradition of being associated with BMW's own future, innovation, technology ... being that Neue Klasse cars (1500-2002 ti), fuel injected engines (2002tii, 318i), or the in-car-UI iDrive.

Sure decision for BMW i name sounds logical to BMW AG people, and some BMW aficionados but I guess BMW will have to communicate this decision to the general public a bit more, to inform the people why BMW i. It has a rational & emotional factor (so there are sound grounds for such a decision) yet they have to let people know about that.

 

[dalab]

Y' know is weird see a bmw whith that shape, but if you look closely, there is something very special about this car, beyond the technologically advanced, also in its design ............ I think we're going to be pleasantly surprised

 

[Beemer B773ER]

I think the key differentiating factor of this i3 compared to any of the Japanese micro-cars is the wheel size. All of the microcars have tiny wheelbarrow tires that give the impression that the car is a bit larger than it actually is. Yeah smaller tires might save weight, be cheaper to replace and what-not, but with this i3 we can see that it'll still be a sporty thing with those nice sized tires.

Also, that one particular photo which has the tail of the 550i, that gives us a good reference point for the size/dimensions of this test-car.

 

[TheDriver]

If this was a Suzuki, Audi or whatever, nobody would like this at all.

Well it's not, it's a BMW and I still f***ing hate it. Why oh why do all these 'green' cars have to look so ugly. When they it would be out of this world I didn't think they mean it's looks.

 

[Osnabrueck]

Well it's not, it's a BMW and I still f***ing hate it. Why oh why do all these 'green' cars have to look so ugly. When they it would be out of this world I didn't think they mean it's looks.

They don't have to look 'so ugly' - enter the i8. But for that you will be paying (what I presume to be) a small fortune.

If you're going to set the bar high for green, utility and price point, you're going to end up with an unappealing shape. It's not by any deficiency of the brilliant minds at DesignWorks or engineers at BMW - it's just the laws of physics... and economics.

Judging from these photos it appears that BMW is shooting for the very top and bottom of their "i" range from the get-go. I'm disappointed by this - My initial guess (intimated from their sketches) is that they were going to have an expensive electric sports car in the i8, and a prestige compact SAV near equivalent to a hypothetical 3erGT in the i3.

It's still very early, but we can derive much from the positioning/proportions of the hood, headlights and bumper in this prototype –*which tells us that this will be a MPV'esque/A1'ish 'compact space van' type of vehicle.

The planners at BMW are likely much more savvy than I, and have much more data at their disposal - but my auto marketing gut dislikes this decision. I was hoping that "i" would be an aspirational-only brand from the start - selling lower-volume vehicles with great performance and styling with a hefty 'green tax' that would be offset by the image and relative exclusivity of the vehicles. But with the i3 taking this form - the "i" brand will have to be a hit right out of the gate.

Personally - I'm not entirely convinced by this strategy. Placing the i3 and i8 so far apart from each other doesn't say a whole lot about "i" as a brand. It makes i3 the core, and the vehicle that the public will most often interact with, and the i8 the halo car.

Hopefully I'm totally wrong and these cars are complete fire right out the gate. The good news is that they must be planning an aggressive price point for the i3 - how can they not be?

 

[EnI]

Why everybody here expects BMW i to be a mass brand? It won't be! It won't sell in hundreds of thousands. The sales of i3 & i8 combined are expected to be well bellow 50k units per year. Which is less then eg. BMW sells 7er cars annually.

BMW i cars are niche cars - just like M cars are.

BMW i is not about being cheap & affordable & available to everybody. It's a BMW after all. Even the i3 ... And there is no correlation between size & price. Small = cheap = nonsense. Even small cars can be premium. At least ROW has no problem with that. Size doesn't always matter!

There will be plenty EV of different types, sizes, purposes etc ... and prices. And BMW is going to offer premium cars. As BMW do. It's other's task to offer such cars for the masses (Toyota, VW, Renault, Ford, Opel, Citroen, Fiat, Hyundai etc): affordable & conventional.

The brand positioning is not changing with BMW i - the cars will still be premium. Therefore I don't understand the expectations for the affordable price for i3. Gosh, it's an i3 ... still room for a bit cheaper (although not cheap!) i2 and i1!

As said earlier: i3 is an optimal pack of current EV tech, energy economy & usability. Sure the car could be smaller or bigger ... or of different shape ... but then would either have less space or being less economical. This little fellow is a balanced compromise.

I'm amused by comments like "OMG! What an ugly car! This is not a BMW! It looks like Toyota or Fiat. I would never buy that!" etc Of course you won't. This is not Joe Average's car. It targets specific population, specific users / buyers. Not eg. current owners of eg. 3er Touring or X3 or X1 or even 1er etc.

To understand (strategic) marketing (the one dealing with product planning) one has to open his mind. Has to rid of his own (usually limited) perspectives. It has to listen to people. Even the one in the niches. To the minorities. Especially if they are loaded.

Also ... BMW consider to offer i3 through innovative sales(?) channels.

Mind this BMW i is primarily Asia oriented! Therefore the Westerners have difficulties to understand it. Myopia? I would say so. Our comfort zone & mind set has become limited & shrunken. It's Asia who will dictate lifestyle & economic tempo in the future. If nothing terrible goes wrong.

Have you ever been to Japan? China? South Korea? Singapore? Malaysia? UAE? etc their cities are 21st century cities. Built for the future. Almost from the scratch. While Westerners are stuck with cities that are centuries (or at least quite a few decades) old - with architecture of old times. Sure we can renovate, and add something. But the base is not built for the 21st century. That's a fact! It's like renovating an old house - you are rather limited with its structure, architecture, even with its core materials. Building a new house from scratch is usually more simple, cheaper & effective. And gives you more maneuvering space: you can tailor it exactly by your needs & taste.

I'm aware it's quite a cultural shock seeing big corporations starting to offer Asia-oriented global products. The shape is different. Even the functionality. Perhaps - sometimes - even the purpose.

The times when products were either European or American oriented / centered are over. The new generations (of people) will be even more culturally hybridized, and therefore more open to new things. So, for them new generations of Asia-oriented products won't be problematic. The older generations (and even we!) will have difficulties to accept that. I'm afraid we will end up like our grandpas complaining about all that electrical & mechanical stuff that was built in the 20th century, and how old times were perfect ... with oil lamps, horses & carriages, snail mail, instrumental live unplugged music etc.

Guys, the future is here. Just give up already!

 

[Osnabrueck]

Point well taken about Asia's influence in product planning. However, I think any OEM forecasting near-term Asian preeminence in the global car market - in gross receipts at least - is hatching plans based solely on observation of recent history.

But then we have the i3, which does seem to be hedging its bets towards efficient transportation solutions for China, India and other emerging markets. The question is - will this strategy alienate US consumers? Sure, the US is now the #2 automotive market by volume, but it is still the highest value by a considerable margin.

With the information we have thus far - especially now that we've seen these photos - it's inconceivable that BMW isn't planning an aggressive price point for the i3. It also aligns with the information we had leading up to the decision to go ahead with this vehicle.

Knowing all that, we can also surmise that this car will have a very hard time striking a chord with US buyers. We still don't have 4-banger BMWs stateside primarily due to our particular cultural milieu.

Don't get me wrong - I hope this car is as a raging success. What I'm really questioning right now is how the BMWi brand succeed as a brand-new global brand when they're launching two very different vehicles that have entirely different missions.

From an Asian or European perspective I don't see a huge problem. But for extremely image conscious American buyers I see a tough sell pairing up the i3 and the i8 under the same tent. Worst case scenario, they taint BMWi with a negative 'quirky' connotation out the gate. I can already hear the "It's just like the Prius-C but for $12,000 more" comments.

Personally, I now see i3 and i8 as mutually exclusive projects that have been paired-up under one subbrand. The American luxury brand snob in me wishes that BMW opted to launch into an uncontested segment with something more like a i5 than an i3.

 

[EnI]

Sure not everything is rosy in Asia - surely not in China. And there can go something really wrong someday. In this respect US has an advantage since its much more stable environment.

BMW i ... it's really not a brand & product line for masses. So, who cares what about Joe Average thinks. He is not a targeted client. Neither is Hans Durchschnitt. Nor average Chinese man.

i8 ... it will be a pricey sports car - a hallo car. Of quite limited production. An it will sure find it's buyers.

i3 ... as said ... innovative sales channels are considered. Not necessarily personal buyers are targeted! And still it's a niche car. With initial sales plans of good 30k units per year.

I even doubt BMW i will be selling in a classical way.

US buyers ... they think oil is forever. It's not. An therefore it won't be cheap forever. That's a fact. Perhaps not in this generation, but certainly in the next one.

For many of us world seems perfect today. We live well, we can afford much ... but that can change. If we do not adapt at least a bit. But nobody is really eager to left its own comfort zone. Limited mindset is rather nasty disadvantage. You can be overrun by time. What's the key of survival, and evolution? Adaptation!

Some - although recessions are predictable in economics - think good times where will be forever. And this current recession proves them wrong.

Sure betting to much on Asia can prove them wrong as well. But they can't risk of not being ready cater those markets.

US core customers ... they will still get the BMWs they love: powerful, sporty etc. But that does not mean eg. some others can't get their own cars: being that hatches, small SUVs, or the BMW i3.

Not everything that does not succeed in US is doomed. Eg. low-end engined BMWs, diesel BMWs, 1er hatch, etc - selling extremely where elsewhere. As you can see US-centered view is not always the right one.

 

[Osnabrueck]

Let's not get bogged-down in a discussion about US energy policy or the sunsetting of the petroleum age. The rise of the electric vehicle is nearly undebatable at this point and is a topic for another thread.

You mentioned initial sell-through goals around the 30k mark for the i3 - which has me wondering aloud... If this is the desired near-term result, why not come to market in an uncontested premium segment that BMW can lead through its aspirational positioning.

That's what I completely don't get here. There's not enough connective tissue between these two launch vehicles - save the electric powertrain and use of composite materials - to tell a good premium vehicle story. At least, not one that can be fully comprehended by the entirety of BMW's global audience.

I can't help but imagine that, internally, near-term volume goals for the i3 are pretty aggressive and this is a bid to stake an early claim in a soon-to-be very congested segment. This makes lots of sense for consumer electronics, but makes little sense for premium branding.

Again, I hope BMW proves us all wrong on this one. They could have a massive hit on their hands - but the near-term success of the i3 could come at a long-term cost for the BMWi brand as a whole.

 

[EnI]

You are forgetting about something: there will be also electric core BMWs, and electric MINIs ... and even an electric Rolls!

And they will be cheaper .. .yet not such a technological cutting edge. BMW i is a brand for early adopters, and hi-tech freaks. Not for the masses! And eventually BMW i tech will trickle down to other BMW Group brands, while new, more advanced will be used in BMW i cars of next generation.

Get it?

BMW i will be more a halo (sub)brand. Just like M is. M is BMWs sporty performance alter ego, while i will be BMW's EfficientDynamics & ConnectedDrive tour-de-tech alter ego.

BMW i is definitely NOT a lesser (sub)brand within BMW family. The opposite: IMO it will become more of a halo brand for BMW than M is today! Since M cars will also benefit from BMW i tech during the years.

BMW i is a long-term project. It won't be profitable at first, and the products will surely be niche caterers. But over the years and decades the i brand will expand and become more proper business. Right now it's benefits will sure be more of a promotional nature - as a halo brand. Making BMW brand technologically superadvanced (just like M made BMW supersporty - from just sporty).

30k i3s sold / leased / rented per year. It sounds reasonable to me. I'm sure tech savvy & green-leaned well situated people will want to have it. Just like smart has its clientèle, and so has Prius, and so will Volt, and so will the i3. I'm sure BMW will find a way how to push this car. And new hi-tech stuff always sells quite well although being expensive. And beside that the car will look cute & futuristic. It will be quite a statement - beside being a hi-tech green commuting machine.

And be sure with new rival products that will be able to match i3 & i8, the prices will fall. Not perhaps the absolute figures - but you'll get much better car for the same price than in the beginning.

The question that remains open is: how will insurance companies react to such a vehicles. Sure the insurance price will be insane! Therefore carmakers are expecting some subsidies for buyers form the governments for such cars (premiums, tax cuts etc). And I'm sure there will be some.

I also wonder what will happen with CFRP car after a crash. since it's unrepairable - or the repair would be expensive as hell. I expect BMW would offer some special guarantee & maintenance programs as well for the i cars.

Sure the project i is an expensive program. But BMW has learned something from Toyota Prius case -when Prius (although nearly everyone has laughed at the car) has become a synonym for a hybrid car: also resulting in sales, not only of Prius but also other Toyota & Lexus hybrid models.

Being a pioneer gives you a huge halo advantage over rivals. Even if the product is not optimal. Remember iDrive? BMW is still considered a pioneer of introducing such in-car systems, although other systems were better.

With BMW i all the brands within BMW Group will make a profit - promotional wise at first, later also sales wise when EV within MINI, core BMW & RR brands will be introduced.

And BMW i will surely set BMW as a pioneer of hi-tech premium EV. And that's exactly what BMW want.

 

[Osnabrueck]

I'll say this one last time - BMW should be entering an uncontested premium segment, not a soon-to-be congested one.

Coming to market with what is essentially the BMW equivalent of a Honda Fit (with similar amounts of power) is not going to establish BMWi as a pioneer or opinion-leading brand unless the use of composite materials yields tremendous results.

There is a glut of vehicles coming down the pike that square-up with the i3 in drivetrain and packaging. Just like the Lexus compact hybrids that have been met with extremely lukewarm reception, the i3 will be up against rivals that deliver the similar experiences for 2/3rds the price. Much as I wish BMW success in this area, my belief is that they are going about it in the wrong way and are missing a huge opportunity.

BMWi will not be a brand for early adopters. Those people are already lining up for Volts, Leafs and Prius plug-ins. The profile of the BMW buyer, even outside the US, is far different from this.

 

[SCOTT27]

The i3 will be very groundbreaking for it's concept it is very much a product of the future. The finished car will be very close to this rendering. With the spy photographs we have disguised key points of the car's exterior so you are left to make up your mind.
The i3 will be the first Premium electric car in the segment.
The i8 and i3 will of course be first... But there is plans to further the BMWi family including an i1 which could be the modern incarnation of the BMW Isetta and could share a future with the MINI Rocketman.

But do not expect conventional from BMWi. For many this is the equivalent of that future you were promised but did not materialise.
This is the Brave New World.

Currently I am working on a project for the i3 IAA Concept to which you will see what a Megacity looks like which given my background in architecture it is very exciting we are looking at cities and their architecture especially in skyscrapers and combining them altogether in one giant Megacity - Think Shanghai merged with Frankfurt , Singapore , Hong Kong etc...

 

[Osnabrueck]

That looks super cool.

 

[Moses7]

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[coolraoul]

For such an "innovative" product, it has an incredibly conventional shape/size/form imo. I don't see why it whould be so groundbreakingly Asian-centric.

Asian carmakers are all working on different vehicle solutions than the average 1.5xm wide - 3.xxm long car...

And the carbon-fibre... is indeed expensive to repair, Lambo (for the Aventador) announced they will be having two "flying doctors" with special heating/re-carboning" tools, and that the dealers will not be able to repair anything related to the body...

I still think this project is a huge lot of hot air and offers nothing that groundbreaking.

In fact, it's a very nice product that, for me, is ruined by excessive marketing BS.

Looks cute and advanced, very interesting technology, but my gosh how that constant "revolution/other carmakers lost and jealous and crying" BS can be annoying...

 

[SKY]

I believe some of you are exagerating with all this BMWi thing. It´s true it´s a great idea and it´s the future. The i3 might be really futuristic, but the i8 isn´t that innovative, it´s not even electric, but hybrid, which contradict since the very beginning the slogan proposed "Born electric".

Audi with the e-tron, and Merc with the SLS e-cell, which has been even tested by journalists, have come at the same time the i8, and that´s it.

 

[EnI]

For such an "innovative" product, it has an incredibly conventional shape/size/form imo.

It's a pure execution of "form follows function" principle - for the purpose of this car: being a usable daily commuter for 4 persons. What did you expect? A Frank Ghery's structure on wheels?

Asian carmakers are all working on different vehicle solutions than the average 1.5xm wide - 3.xxm long car...

BMW had learned that people do not want useless cars - and therefore decided to built a useful full-size cars. There are already quite few microcars, so BMW decided (based on marketing researches) to offer a larger vehicle. And it's i3, not i1. And we can also expect smaller i car someday.

Unless you are referring to retarded bubble cars some carmakers are coming out with?

I don't see why it whould be so groundbreakingly Asian-centric.

It's a relatively small yet fully usable daily electric commuting machine of reasonable weight for 4 persons & their luggage. And it's expected in the next years only EV cars will be allowed in the city centers of huge cities there - beside the public transport. So, EV will be needed there. And later in Europe & US as well. Is a bubble car a good solution? I don't think so. Also due to safety reasons. Imagine a crash between a bus & bubblecar. Microcars are usually available for 2 persons only. So larger cars are in demand: but they should not be too heavy & energy consuming. Sure all cars will have about 100-150km range, yet will differ how many electric power will they use over this range: heavier & less aerodynamic with bad / mediocre power management will consume much more energy. So, no all EVs are comparable. some are better, and some are worse in this respect. Not to mention that some will be premium (materials used) & more expensive, while others will be cheaper & more affordable. And there is also the sustainability rate (how effectively the car has been produced, how much of the car is recyclable etc).

I don't know why some of you expect MCV / EV will be necessarily small & cheap cars. Not at all. Just like current conventional cars - there we will various different types of EVs & MCVs for different purposes & different customer segments.

And there will also be EVs based on conventional car platforms. Incl BMW, MINI & RR.

BMW i is just a cherry on the top of the cake. BMW's own tour-de-tech brand.

In fact, it's a very nice product that, for me, is ruined by excessive marketing BS.

Really? And your substantiation proof is what? The car hasn't even been launched yet. Only basics are known about the car - tech & design wise - and you call marketing actions considering that car a BS? Which part of marketing exactly do you mean? PR only? Since the only expect of marketing you see right now is mostly PR, and partially promotion. The communicational part of marketing.

Looks cute and advanced, very interesting technology, but my gosh how that constant "revolution/other carmakers lost and jealous and crying" BS can be annoying...

Are you aware this car is will sell @ about €40,000. And being an EV with CFRP body & frame, that's quite impressive. Since all the others cars based on CFRP cost hundreds of thousands of Euros. What's revolutionary about this car is the mass production of CFRP - at relatively reasonable prices. And the energy management of car's powertrain. More will be announced in the upcoming months. Not everything can be said at once. The car is coming in 2013, and various concepts till then.

I believe some of you are exagerating with all this BMWi thing. It´s true it´s a great idea and it´s the future. The i3 might be really futuristic, but the i8 isn´t that innovative, it´s not even electric, but hybrid, which contradict since the very beginning the slogan proposed "Born electric". Audi with the e-tron, and Merc with the SLS e-cell, which has been even tested by journalists, have come at the same time the i8, and that´s it.

Don't you see the difference? Why Born electric' Because MB & Audi cars are "just" electrified R8 & SLS platforms. While i8 is built from scratch as an EV. Why there will be a petrol engine there? Because it's a sports car & GT, and will have to be able to travel long distances @ higher speed (not just 100km within cities @ relatively low speed) - therefore a hybrid.

There will also be an i model with range extender (petrol / diesel engine only for charging the batteries) - eg for possible daily intercity connections. ER used outside the city streets, while in the city electric drive will be used.

Exaggerating? And if this was MB's project? Or Audis? What's the problem here: being an EV or being a BMW?