Vs Autobild: BMW F10 5er vs Mercedes W212 E-Class, Audi A6, Jaguar XF and Citroën C6

[Zafiro]

Here is an intresting article.

Secret behind F10 5-series' touted ride quality

BMW Group Driving Dynamics Director Jos van As says it was owners of the old BMW 5 Series that led direction for the new one.

‘Feedback from owners of the old car was that handling impressed but the ride was too hard.’

This is why the F10 BMW 5 Series rides better than before. You notice it right away at low speed: van As admits they’ve used ‘quite moderate spring rates,’ giving the cushier, plusher feel.

‘Double axle front suspension also helps. We have more grip, so there’s more freedom to tune ride and handling. We have more possibilities to tune the dampers.’

There’s more: ‘Don’t forget, we’re now in the 4th generation of runflat tyre – the old car used 2nd generation. This is a huge jump. We have been able to optimise the tyre wall stiffness – this is a crucial point regarding how absorbent the ride is.

Ride on some more, too: ‘With the new car we have been able to choose a new tyre size, keeping inflation pressures on the healthy side. If you have a smaller wheel, you have a smaller air volume, therefore need higher pressures.’

This belies the theory that large wheels automatically mean worse ride: here’s an example of big rims improving ride – from the top man himself. Apparent right away, the more I drove it, the more the ride clicked. Then it dawned on me, so I had to ask: van As, have you had the Rolls-Royce boys (who are tuning a version of this platform that’s also derived from the 7 Series) working on this?

‘Rolls Royce use the same group of people: yes, some of my guys on the 5 Series also work on the Rolls-Royce. They learn from each other.

‘Some of the similarities are no coincidence…’

There you have it, then! The BMW 5 Series that rides ‘like’ a Rolls-Royce…


Secrets of the BMW 5 Series | Richard Aucock

 

[coolraoul]

As far as I know, you can't get airmatic suspension on lower model E class (at least that is the case here in US, not sure about Europe). So how is that BMW's fault if MB doesn't offer it? And of course MB doesn't have all wheel steering either no matter what model you choose. Is that also BMW's fault?

Fact is the BMW handles better, is more comfortable, is more powerful while having better fuel consumption. If all that counts for nothing for you, sure. The 30,000€ worth of options have nothing to do with it. If anything, it probably handicapped the car by making it heavier and handle worse and get worse mileage than a base car with just the options that add to the dynamics.

Well in Europe you can order the Airmatic with the 350cdi engine.

So next time, we'll see a test with a fully equipped E and a bare naked 5er, the 5er will loose, and guess who'll come whining that it was unfair?

However, this is just a test, highlighting how close the two cars are, and how good both are.

 

[Sunny]

Here is a test where the Bimmer and the Merc cost the same. Guess what, 5er still wins, and pretty easily too. Wonder what the excuses are going to be this time?

Google Translate

 

[coolraoul]

Here is a test where the Bimmer and the Merc cost the same. Guess what, 5er still wins, and pretty easily too. Wonder what the excuses are going to be this time?

Google Translate

Autozeitung's biased?

No kidding, congrats for the victory. In that test it's clearer.

 

[Zafiro]

Now we can act like adults again and come to the conclusion both E-class and 5-series are two outstanding vechicles. You cant go wrong with any of them.

 

[Human]

^
People may laugh at me as much as they want and knock themselves out....
IMO Merc and BMW may be compared but would NEVER compete, they cater for totally, totally, totally different people with different needs and tastes

Audi is the "I wanna be like Mike"....that is why I am not a Audi fan, though they are a German mark and make very good German Luxury cars....

 

[footie]

Audi is the "I wanna be like Mike"....that is why I am not a Audi fan, though they are a German mark and make very good German Luxury cars....

Funny, my take on Audi is a little different. I would class Audi as a mixed between both Merc and BMW, their mainstream models occupying the middle ground. But their hi-performance models is very squarely aided and gunning after BMW's ///M.

 

[coolraoul]

I saw the F10 IRL tonight.
It looks better than in pics: bigger, and the rear comes together (in pics I found the rear lights to be dispropotionally small, it is not the case IRL).

No way you can confuse it with a 3er like in pics. So it's better than in pics, yet it's not really a thrilling design.

Elegant, sporty, but safe design. A nice piece of kit I have to say.

Compared with the E, it's less controversial but also has less character.

I'd say I prefer a well equipped E, but in bare guise with a light color I think the 5er would work better.

 

[Merc1]

I don't know about Europe, but in the U.S. being between BMW and Mercedes is Audi's problem. They don't ride like a Mercedes and they aren't as sporty as BMWs, that is the perception, well that and being an upscale VW. No matter how wrong that may be, that is what most buyers think or seem to believe. Audi just doesn't get onto enough shopping lists.

A BMW 5-Series rides like a Roll-Royce now? Bullshyte.


M

 

[klier]

I'd appreciate you to stop calling me a fanboy.

I will do that if you want me to, but I didn't mean anything with it. You are, like me, a positive fanboy

 

[Mockenrue]

I don't know about Europe, but in the U.S. being between BMW and Mercedes is Audi's problem. They don't ride like a Mercedes and they aren't as sporty as BMWs, that is the perception, well that and being an upscale VW. No matter how wrong that may be, that is what most buyers think or seem to believe. Audi just doesn't get onto enough shopping lists.

This "upscale VW" etc. perception thing in the US is something I've never been able to really fathom. A quick glance through the history of Audi AG and its relationship with Volkswagen will illustrate that this is not the case, yet Americans buy Lexus in droves - cars which are, by and large, nothing more than 'upscale' Toyotas (and unashamedly so).

 

[Merc1]

Yes that is true for the most part. I don't get it either. Even some of my best car loving friends think this about Audis.

Audi didn't do itself any favors though by being joined at the hip at the dealer level with VW for so many years. Its going to take time and sheer product to change this perception. That and for VW to stop trying to move upscale. That really muddles up the picture.

M

 

[footie]

Yes that is true for the most part. I don't get it either. Even some of my best car loving friends think this about Audis.

Audi didn't do itself any favors though by being joined at the hip at the dealer level with VW for so many years. Its going to take time and sheer product to change this perception. That and for VW to stop trying to move upscale. That really muddles up the picture.

M

Mockenrue made a very valid point about Lexus, I would go as far as to say their products and those of Toyota are closer in both design and principle than what Audi and VW are.

Think about it, almost all Volkswagen products have their engines transversely mounted, where as Audi as quite the opposite, it's only the A3 and TT that share anything mechanical in common with Volkswagen. I look at a Lexus and a Toyota and see lots of similarities in their exterior design yet don't see the same when I look at Audi and Volkswagen. I reckon this is the snobbery side of people coming to the surface, it's similar to the comments that most Boxster and Cayman drivers get, the 'cheap man's 911' always gets mentioned.

I do agree that the sharing of dealerships is giving out the wrong vibes but it makes commercial sense to do it like this, it's the same with BMW and Mini sharing space or Mercedes and Smart. I think the problem is that instead of the more expensive brand being the parent company as is the case with BMW and Mercedes it's the other way round with Audi and Volkswagen.

The really strange thing is that the build quality, fit and finish of Audi is probably ahead of either BMW and Mercedes by quite some distance.

 

[Human]

Funny, my take on Audi is a little different. I would class Audi as a mixed between both Merc and BMW, their mainstream models occupying the middle ground. But their hi-performance models is very squarely aided and gunning after BMW's ///M.

Exactly that is what I meant. I am not trying to make Audi inferior to MB or BMW though IMO it's still the 'wanna be' brand...wanna be like MB...wanna be like BMW.

 

[braaf]

Guys lets be real. As long as Audi are using VW tech, it will always be regarded as an Upscale VW. Audi need to break away from VW to change that perception. But if they did, who would give them pocket money?

 

[footie]

Guys lets be real. As long as Audi are using VW tech, it will always be regarded as an Upscale VW. Audi need to break away from VW to change that perception. But if they did, who would give them pocket money?

Where is it using VW technology?

Is the Bugatti Veyron using VW technology?

What you should be saying it that it's using VW money to fund it's own technology. In reality most of the other VW brands work out Audi technology and not the opposite, and this include Lamborghini and Bentley.

 

[Mockenrue]

Guys lets be real. As long as Audi are using VW tech, it will always be regarded as an Upscale VW. Audi need to break away from VW to change that perception. But if they did, who would give them pocket money?

I get where you're coming from, but you need to realise that it's not always a case of "Audi using VW tech". Sure, there's a degree of technology and resource sharing across the group, but often this technology is developed by Audi first and then finds its way into the other brands' cars. For example, I don't see a problem with 'platform sharing' in all its various guises, as this shouldn't detract from the perceived 'quality' of the engineering - especially if it keeps costs down and therefore prices. A lot of the componentry and raw materials used by the big three Germans all comes from the same suppliers anyway!

As for the pocket money, well around 80% of VW AG's profits last year were generated by Audi, so even without the economies of scale they enjoy as part of the group I'm sure they'd manage to sustain themselves.

 

[braaf]

Cmon, who u guys trying to fool. About 60% to 70% of Audi engines come from VW (All those 4 pot turbo engines came from VW with an Audi badge stuck on it). Even the so called S tronic gearbox is a rebadged DSG. You can paint over a zebras stripes but that doesn't make it a horse.

Now there's absolutely nothing wrong with that cos it really does make business sense and VW are all about making money, but don't ure knickers in a twist when people state the obvious.

I don't claim to know the inner workings or finances of Audi and VW cos I dont care much for the brand, but if wat u say is true (well around 80% of VW AG's profits last year were generated by Audi) then how the hell does VW make money.

 

[footie]

Cmon, who u guys trying to fool. About 60% to 70% of Audi engines come from VW (All those 4 pot turbo engines came from VW with an Audi badge stuck on it). Even the so called S tronic gearbox is a rebadged DSG. You can paint over a zebras stripes but that doesn't make it a horse.

And what exactly is wrong with sharing engines on their smallest/least expensive models? Plus it's not a re-badged DSG, Audi use the S-Tronic logo but the gearbox is designed and developed by Audi not VW and only the transverse DSG/S-Tronic gearbox is shared among brands, the new 7speed in the MLP is unique to Audi alone.

I don't claim to know the inner workings or finances of Audi and VW cos I dont care much for the brand, but if wat u say is true (well around 80% of VW AG's profits last year were generated by Audi) then how the hell does VW make money.

Volkswagen as a company are over staffed, that is why their own profits are like they are. But what Mockenrue is claiming it quite right, Audi do bring in far more proportionally than the other brands and accordingly get a bigger market share for funding new projects. In fact they spend far more than either BMW or Mercedes do on R&D.