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HOT! Rust found in cabins of brand new BMW 1 Series, 3 Series!

Discussion in 'Vehicle Reliability & Safety Issues' started by EnI, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. EnI

    EnI Well-Known Member GCF Guru Contributing Member

    I've found this (not mine, though) issue very troublesome & worrying, and I hope BMW will suffer A LOT from this issue, since this is unbelievable & shocking & outrageous for a premium brand like BMW ... even if it's "only a surface rust on the unexposed parts". The fact is it's not an isolated issue, but quite broad one. And I'm afraid the F20 it's not the only model affected.

    C'mon .. having a rusty parts in THE CABIN is a bit TOO MUCH for any car, in particular a premium one! No matter is it visible or not. And it doesn't matter the rust is just superficial ... The perception of rust has a very negative connotation: representing low quality, aging stuff, unprotected parts, etc. Something that can never be associated with a premium product! Unless rust is a part of some artistic / design / aesthetic value ... Which certainly isn't the case here.

    I can understand all the electronic failures in premium products (nevertheless how devastating are ...) ... but this issue is purely mechanical & pretty basic ... C'mon, rust? For g's sake! It's not some 1981 Fiat or Renault car we are talking about here, but a 2012 BMW!

    Purchasing cheap parts? Quality control failed? Whatever it is, I hope it hurts & costs BMW a lot! Since they deserve it! To bring them back to Earth, and stop being cocky about "premium & quality"...



    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
    • Like Like x 6
  2. Cashmere

    Cashmere Well-Known Member

    holy sh!t, that's a lot of rusty new cars. This is going to be a PR disaster for BMW, especially on a car as new as the F20 1 series.
  3. EnI

    EnI Well-Known Member GCF Guru Contributing Member

    I hope it is since they completely deserve it. That's a complete fail on "top quality" & "premium" etc level. They better stop production & issue an enormous recall immediately - so the cars that are out already can be bring to shops for a repair, or even parts replacement.

    The problem is that seat base is not the only "hidden" part that goes rusty ... There are reports that dashboard frame / holders etc are also all rusty on NEW CARS!

    Some dealers have already issued some explanation "it's a superficial rust only ... don't you worry ... it won't go deeper & hurt the material & the structure".

    Even if that's true ... it's the psychological perception of rust that's worrying here ... I expect this to be A HUGE PR disaster for BMW, and some big heads will roll!

    Now imagine some "hidden rusty parts" present in 7er, 6er, even RR Ghost etc ... I wouldn't be surprised this issue goes way beyond 1 Series!
  4. Betty Swollocks

    Betty Swollocks Well-Known Member

    That is terrible.
  5. EnI

    EnI Well-Known Member GCF Guru Contributing Member


    Yes, it is.

    Yes, it's a "superficial rust" only, but it's absolutely terrible to look at.

    I'm sure there will be a recall & the rust will be cleaned very easily, and some protective coating or paint applied there. Why haven't they done that already in the factory is beyond me.
  6. Sunny

    Sunny Well-Known Member GCF Guru

    That looks horrible. What I want to know is why is there even bare metal parts inside the car? In my E36, all those parts (under the seat) are painted black. Cost cutting at it's worst.
  7. south

    south Well-Known Member

    I'm surprised about your behaviour in this thread, EnI. It's one thing to bring up an issue that bugs quite some current F20 and F30 owners, but it's a whole different thing to wish for a PR disaster. Not sure what exactly is your motivation here.

    Best regards,
    • Like Like x 1
  8. K-A

    K-A Banned

    Why not? What got Mercedes to stop producing crap like the W220 that rusted all up? PR disasters.

    This shows lack of care and attention by BMW, cost cutting, laziness, ego, who knows.... but this is a major issue, and obviously it's here because BMW either overlooked it or thought nobody would question them.

    Raise the covers and turn on the LED flashlight.... that's how you get them to fix it.

    Times like these are when protective "fanboy" measures toward any brand should be thrown out the window for the goodness of the brands sake in the long term itself, not to mention for those who are paying for the products. This coupled with the M5/M6 "don't drive it or the motor will grenade" which has owners of those cars FURIOUS wouldn't be a good coupling at the moment, and I'm sure would get BMW to send major quality-control initiations going forward.
    • Like Like x 2
  9. EnI

    EnI Well-Known Member GCF Guru Contributing Member


    My motivation? What motivation? I'm furious!

    Do you think it's expectable to have rust in the cabin of a premium car? IMO it's certainly not. I'm just furious by such basic mistake & negligence (read: cost cutting) BMW have done here. It's not worthy of a premium car maker, a premium brand & a premium product.

    Why my cry for a PR disaster? Because I want BMW to be better & stop doing such idiotic "mistakes". And I hope they'll be thought a lesson.

    Spraying steel parts with protecting paint / coating is not a rocket science or similar super advanced hi-tech where failures are somehow understandable, even acceptable.

    But rust in the passenger cabin? C'mon. That's just too much for me & my love towards BMW.

    This could even went unnoticed ... BMW take a risk with this cost cutting measure, and it didn't pay off ... Some people found the rusty parts, and the story is out.

    Otherwise ... with no nasty noises about cost cutting & demanding more (actually very basic quality) from a manufacturer ... What can be next? What's going the be the next cost cutting measure?

    Yes, sure such superficial rust is harmless but as said: the perception of rust in a passenger cell of a premium car ... Ouch!

    That's where my tolerance to cost cutting & the unconditional love of BMW ends. That rust issue was just too much for me. That's the reason for my outrage. No hidden agenda here. Just utter disappointment in my beloved brand & carmaker.
    • Like Like x 2
  10. south

    south Well-Known Member

    The M5/M6 issue was brought up before. It's bad for BMW even though it's NOT their fault. But I understand average owners or car enthusiasts don't see the difference as most aren't into the details of modern OEM supply.

    Best regards,
  11. Hofmeister

    Hofmeister Active Member

    Can I wade in here and say that we do not yet know the extent of the problem, how many cars it effects, whos at fault etc. Rust in a brand new car, premium or mainstream is simply unacceptable, I agree, I just suggest we reserve the finger-pointing until more is known about the matter.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. south

    south Well-Known Member

    Do you have inside information that BMW intentionally took a risk here and left out some protection coating to cut costs? If not, that's one too many assumptions for my liking.

    Big parts of F20 and F30 development took place during the economic crisis so I'm sure BMW saved a Euro here and there to be on the safe side. But I can't believe they took a risk this big intentionally.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. K-A

    K-A Banned

    If it's not intentional then it's simply negligence. Either way, it's not a good look for them and shows a sacrifice in quality in one way or another.
  14. EnI

    EnI Well-Known Member GCF Guru Contributing Member

    Having a faulty supplier is YOUR fault. Due to the lack of quality control (of a supplied part).

    Yes, I understand the suppliers are under extreme pressure ... being forced to sell parts for ridiculous prices, and therefore are forced to make extreme cost cutting at the expense of quality (even very basic one).

    Therefore BMW (and any other carmaker) performs road tests, lab test etc ... Therefore there are lasting FEP testings etc. Therefore BMW's engineers are sent to the supplier to check the production there, to check the quality control at supplier etc.

    Cost cutting (at any level) can go as far as customers allow it.

    Regarding the rusty seat base etc ... it's an obvious cost cutting ... to save some coating / paint, and to make bigger profit margins on a product. And to me this particular cost cutting measure is just too much - it's something I'm not ready to tolerate.

    It's indeed a minor functional issue, but to me it's a huge SYMBOLIC one.

    Do a want to buy a BMW with rust in car's cabin? I certainly DO NOT. No matter how good the car looks, what hi-tech does it feature, how good it drives & performs. IO just don't want a car with a rust in the cabin ... especially not a premium one with quite a high price (within a segment).

    Rust is an absolute NO GO for me. It's an issue from another year & era. Certainly not suitable for 2012 issue.

    Really, I still can't believe there are rusty parts in 2012 BMW car cabins!


    Since some older BMW models / cars (and I'm sure the newer high-end ones as well) do have painted seat base I can say with a high degree of certainty that not painting the seat base in F20 & F30 (etc) was an intentional decision - a very rational cost cutting measure.

    And I'm sure there was some rational & functional (and not just aesthetic one) reason why they were painting the seat base in the past.

    Sure they intentionally used some other CHEAPER protective coating (wax instead of paint?) in the F20 & F30 case - and with using a cheaper solution you always take a risk of failing.

    Did they know the base goes rusty? I'm sure they were since such issues are usually uncovered during testings ... and then it's up to product manager & co. to decide which issues have to be addressed immediately, and which can wait till the next MY, which ones till LCI ... or some even never if they went unnoticed by customers etc.

    And I'm shocked you're playing devil's advocate here. Perhaps as much as everybody is shocked right now such harsh critics of BMW are coming from MY mouth.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
    • Like Like x 4
  15. K-A

    K-A Banned

    THANK YOU. What the hell is this bypass of responsibility to BMW by blaming the suppliers?

    If that's the case, then you can NEVER hold anybody accountable for their OWN products, because most supplies within them are outsourced. You can't blame failed tech on Mercedes/BMW/etc. because they don't always (or ever) literally make their "own tech".

    South: I know VERY well about OEM supply. Which is why I know it's BMW's responsibility to ensure that it's fit and and accounted for on their cars. This includes tight and watchful eye and direction to suppliers. Mistakes happen, yes, and some are unavoidable, but it doesn't abolish responsibility to BMW or anybody involved. This is fundamental "quality control".
    • Like Like x 2
  16. south

    south Well-Known Member

    That's only half the truth. You need to differentiate between the decision to go with supplier A or B and the ongoing quality control for an existing supplier. In the first case, it's the OEM's (in this case BMW's) job to make sure parts are produced and supplied as specified and agreed on, the supplier has a functional QC system, etc. The issue of parts not being up to specification (i.e. faulty) during the ongoing production is not the OEM's fault as the supplier has to make sure their parts are up to the agreed standard. A good example is the M5/M6 oil pump issue. It would be BMW's fault if it was a bad design or they didn't realize a certain supplier couldn't produce any parts up to spec. But in this case it wasn't a flawed design but a bad batch of parts. Any supplier is bound to make sure they check examples to avoid this to happen. Clearly not BMW's fault.

    I'm not playing devil's advocate, I'm just saying that a person knowing as much about BMW as you do should know better than posting emotional/irrational comments about how BMW cut costs. Also, I'm not in the least concerned about this issue. If the F30 I'll get has those rusty parts I'll go to the dealer and let them replace those parts. Really no need to go all mad about it or wish BMW to go through a PR disaster.

    Best regards,
  17. Kowalski

    Kowalski Well-Known Member

    As much as I love the M5, truth be told, BMW's reliability is in the shitter these days... A real shame, really.
  18. south

    south Well-Known Member

    See my comment above. The reality is totally different from your "knowledge".

    Best regards,
  19. EnI

    EnI Well-Known Member GCF Guru Contributing Member

    Interesting how low our (or in this particular case your) expectations have fallen. How low we (=you) have pushed the tolerance bar on the quality (due to cost cutting measures). How deep & blind our (=your) loyalty has become.

    In this particular case rust in a BMW car cabin is a non issue or minor issue to you? What else are you willing to tolerate?

    Enjoy your F30. I'm stying away from it for now. I was ready to buy an F31 (320d Touring xDrive) to replace my E46 320d T but I'm definitely not buying a car with rusty parts IN the cabin. Not BMW not any other. Now you know why I'm so disappointed. It could be me dealing with rust issue in the next months. No thanks.

    As said: rust in the cabin belongs to some other era way back, and to some shitty brands & products.

    Btw, sometimes PR disaster can be extremely cathartic ... even for BMW.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. south

    south Well-Known Member

    You have no clue about my expectations, my tolerance or my brand loyalty. All you're doing is trying to make the biggest fuss possible about this issue. And I again question your motivation for all this fuss.

    Best regards,
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