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If there is no 'Business case' for a BMW supercar.....

Discussion in 'The Pit - General Discussion' started by -=Hot|Ice=-, Feb 18, 2012.

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  1. -=Hot|Ice=-

    -=Hot|Ice=- Well-Known Member

    Then why is Ferrari posting record financial results and dropping a V12 inside their new upcoming sports car?

    Ferrari announces record financial results, new V12 sports car for Geneva

  2. LaArtist

    LaArtist Banned

    Cause BMW isn't ferrari;) simple..

    But still good enough to build a business case for a sports car between 100-250K euro..
    But it takes some guts..seems like they don't have them!
  3. Levi68

    Levi68 Banned

    No "business case" for BMW because they can't build anything worthy for this case, what doesn't seem to be the case of Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, Porsche and others. :D
  4. shonguiz

    shonguiz Well-Known Member

    Comparing a generalist to a supercar-exclusiv automaker is not very wise, don't you tink ?
  5. -=Hot|Ice=-

    -=Hot|Ice=- Well-Known Member

    BMW was once in the SuperCar game. I'm just trying to point out that there are people that will buy a proper mid-engined supercar that BMW has been holding out on for the past couple years stating their is no business case and nobody would buy them. They have reps making retarded statements like 'The M5 is as good as a Lamborghini". Yeah, right. Mercedes builds general cars but not only do they build the SLS and SLS roadster(and are already planning a successor) but they haven't pulled out of F1, either.
  6. shonguiz

    shonguiz Well-Known Member

    It's not that nobody would buy them, it's just that their factories are not made for supercars specific needs, look to what merc has done with the SLR, they outsourced the manufacturing process to Macca. When they talk about Business case, they don't only talk about selling what they produce, they also talk about profits and in their case that implies stratospheric selling price which of course is not realistic. Audi can build the R8 because they have the mighty financial power of the Vag Empire and the know how is already there through Lambo. But in the case of the Veyron, even that wasn't enough to make it profitable.
  7. Sunny

    Sunny Well-Known Member Staff Member GCF Guru

    Really? Cause they build one super car almost 40 years ago? And even that was a flop. They did derive 'some' success from it though by grafting the engine and other internals into a normal sedan and creating the M5 and since then for the better or the worse been sticking to that formula. They sort of tried with the Z8 again but that was a sales flop too. I also wish BMW would build a super car, so all the power to you for incessantly ranting about it. But if you at least put the effort into making a more intelligent case for it than Ferrari is successful at it. May be, just maybe it will actually work and someone might listen.

    And one other thing that everyone ignores, but real businesses can't afford to ignore is the price of lost opportunity. It is not just a question of if they can sell a super car at a profit, it is a question of how much more they could make if put the same resources (money, people, time, factory space) into building say a fat ass SUV instead.
  8. martinbo

    martinbo Global Moderator / Editor Staff Member

    If you want BMW to be like Ferrari then kiss fantastic people's cars like the 3er goodbye. You can't be half pregnant. Your base model is either a California or you're providing great drivers' cars on a mass market basis. Do some research; what is BMW's net profit vs Ferrari's. Then determine what is the viability of a supercar in terms of return on investment vs. the outcome if that investment was poured instead into a 3er. Don't have an answer? Of course not - but the actuaries and chief accountants at BMW do. That's why they're paid 100 000 EUR a month and you're posting the question on a car forum.
    • Like Like x 6
  9. Levi68

    Levi68 Banned

    6.0l V12

  10. Gianclaudio

    Gianclaudio Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Ahhh, Giugiaro :eye8:
  11. -=Hot|Ice=-

    -=Hot|Ice=- Well-Known Member

    I don't understand this logic. Mercedes has the SLS and Audi has the R8 V10 and the C class nor the A4 have gone anywhere.

    The SLS is profitable. Why can't BMW's SLS killer be?


    I really don't know what other intelligent case you want other then the fact that every other company that's making a supercar has profit. That's a fact.
  12. LaArtist

    LaArtist Banned

    I think you got off on the wrong foot here..
    Comparing BMW to Ferrari..that way people here will ignore the essence of your question, and focus on your rather stupid comparison..
    That gives them enough fuel to talk about anything else than the matter at hand, which is why doesn't BMW make a supercar,when comparable company's like Audi,Mercedes and Lexus are doing so?
    That is the answer im looking for.

    And i already know the excuses.

    1. Audi is owned by VAG
    2. Lexus is owned by mighty Toyota
    3. Mercedes outsources SLR to be built at mclaren
    4. Its not profitable compared to lets say another suv or some crap shit car
    5. BMW might not have the brand value to pull something like this off..

    As you can see i can go on for ages.

    My answers to the above excuses:
    1. Yes audi is owned by VAG but is Mercedes?
    2.Toyota don't know jack shit about supercars
    3.SLR was a partnership, what about SLS,CLK GTR,300SL and about a dozen other supercars they made since 100 years back? Mclaren made those to?
    4.Duh..of course its not as profitable, but profit can not only be measured in terms of i make a car for 10 apples and i sell it for 15.. profit can be made in the enhancement of the image.
    5.Well does lexus or audi have more prestigious name that BMW?

    So to me so far..i have only one straight answer to the fact that they are not making a supercar.
    And the answer is: They have no cojones!
  13. chonkoa

    chonkoa Well-Known Member

    The more I think about it ie how profitable the focused manufactures like Ferrari are still profitable with supercars; the likes of Audi and Merc doing the same: the more I am convinced that BMW have lost the know-how to make a supercar. I would love to be proven wrong, but until then it is either they have lost the know-how or they don't have a pair to make one.
    The economic-justification excuse makes no sense.
  14. Gianclaudio

    Gianclaudio Well-Known Member Premium Member

    It does actually. That's why they are the biggest selling premium car maker in the world.

    I don't know how to translate into english, but it would be roughly: "cost of opportunity". Is basically what Sunny says:

    Instead of investing resources in CF bodied supercars, BMW is putting the money on their i-branded vehicles. In the long term, it seems WAY more inteligent than doing a LF-A, for example.

    BMW doesn't need a halo car to sell cars, they need to keep up making the best engines in the world. Simple.

    And that coming from a M-B fan.

  15. -=Hot|Ice=-

    -=Hot|Ice=- Well-Known Member

    Nobody NEEDS a supercar to sell cars. BMW just doesn't know how to make one anymore. Honestly, I think that is it. There are multiple examples of successful current supercars that are roaming the streets with none of them having a BMW badge. Someone like Betty I am sure would of chosen a BMW supercar over the R8.

    To everyone thinking I am making a 'stupid comparison', think of this if Ferrari a company that only sells a couple thousand cars a year makes supercars, but a company that sells BILLIONS of cars can't?
  16. Gianclaudio

    Gianclaudio Well-Known Member Premium Member

    They don't need nor WANT to.
    If I was on charge of BMW, I wouldn't too. May be I've to insist: they're the world best selling premium cars, and probably investing all their MONEY and TIME in keeping that way.

    Is all about business.

    And the "just doesn't know how to make one anymore" is about the most stupid, non sense sentence I've readed in whole february.
    Yes, they don't know of to make an engine or tune a chasis :rolleyes:
    The fact the M3 and M5 cars are faster in track than the RS and AMG counteparts is just coincidence
  17. Levi68

    Levi68 Banned

    I think we already have dozens of threads on this and on all other BMW forums about BMW "to need or not" a supercar. Anyway who would buy a BMW supercar when there are so many better out in the market, the R8 V10 being one of them.
  18. Gianclaudio

    Gianclaudio Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Levi, I appreciate you A L-O-T mate, but what are you saying? Comparing a hypothetical BMW to an existing Audi and saying the Audi is better?

    We have to cut with this trolling towards BMW. This is not football buddy. I, as a Merc fan don't want to see a thread called "Why can't Merc made a car without looking being designed by cocain maniacs"

  19. -=Hot|Ice=-

    -=Hot|Ice=- Well-Known Member

    Just because they can make the M3 and M5 go around a track means they know how to build a supercar? Really? What kind of logic is that? I can make a 335 go around a track faster then a M3, does that mean I know what I'm doing? BMW knows how to make a proper engine, but after years and years of not putting out, they've lost it. After all, if you don't practice something, you forget how it works.

    Levi, You can be sure if I had the coin, I'd be the first in line for a BMW supercar, simply because after all these years, I feel most comfortable with a car company I have a relationship with.
  20. Just_me

    Just_me Well-Known Member

    I would never buy a supercar from BMW when there are cars like 458 and Gallardo. Sorry guys but just a few people would buy a supercar from BMW.

    PS M division have said they want to build a supercar but the big bosses at Bmw says no. Sure BMW have the skills and knowledge how to build a supercar. No idiots races F1 or DTM without knowledge.
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