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1 Million Units... The Premium Generation.

Discussion in 'SCOTT27's Info Channel' started by SCOTT27, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. SCOTT27

    SCOTT27 Well-Known Member Contributing Member

    1 Million Units : The Premium Generation
    "1 Million units."

    Although it does not seem much in real life terms it does matter to the auto industry and in all respect the Premium manufacturers who produce cars in the higher price stratosphere.

    1 Million units is what luxury car sales are expected to grow to by 2015.
    Propelled by new and emerging markets and established tentpole markets.
    With the attention on BMW i and BMW UKL/MINI being the main focus , this past few years. BMW are back to determining their next phase of penetration towards the high end luxury market. High end luxury cars they will be but every aspect of BMW EfficientDynamics technology will be a key feature.

    BMW 7er / BMW 7er EWB
    First up is an all new BMW 7er due in 2015 and unique and revolutionary in every way thanks to an intensive new mix of Aluminium and CFRP throughout key areas of the car such as platform, structure and body panels.
    Once again the new 7er will reflect the previous generations by arriving in both standard and LWB Li models. With the usual petrol , diesel mix an all new V12 hybrid will be one of the cars most salient talking points.

    With weight reduction being the priority thanks to the exotic mix of alumium and CFRP utilising BMW's experience in volume CFRP production and the first BMW to inherit from the overall BMW i investment.
    Of course in the premium market the 7er has already been called out in regards to sustainability and not in the eco terms of sustainability, but sales sustainability.
    Which is why BMW are moving forward on further concepts to help sustain the 7er.

    BMW X7
    One such concept which has been attempted twice before but dropped at the very last minutes as BMW's proposed ultimate SAV is the BMW X7.
    Now recognising the future of the luxury vehicle is SUV's. BMW management and Rolls-Royce are very reluctant to turn their Jewel - The Rolls-Royce brand into a patische by offering an SUV (which some douchebags have already done) , management have now moved forward on a more sporting direct competitior using the BMW badge.

    However X7 is not just an enlarged X5.
    BMW recognise that not every SUV should be a facsimile of a Range Rover or X6. Given the importantance of the market for SAVs and for BMW especially in markets where sales are primarily driven by BMW X Vehicles.
    BMW do not want to offer the same concept in each size.
    So the task given was to revolutionize the SAV.
    BMW have decided and soon the public will get the opportunity.
    Although still very much an SAV its market designation has determined its visual approach to something new. Taking a more sporting look of more a Touring shape on stilts, the longer , wider and bigger than an X5, X7 goes for a more dynamic and sporting appearance.
    The glasshouse is smaller and goes for a MINI-esque floating roof effect at the front above A-Pillars, The roofline drops dramatically at the rear for a very dynamic effect. The look is overall inspired by the next generation of 7er as the bloodline is carried over with a high characterline and prominent double "bow" line on the lower surfaces. The car is influenced by BMW's previous attempt with the RFK which most of the key areas of that project became the 5er GT.
    Sharing with as much as the 7er including engines , technology , drivetrains aswell as the construction material of aluminium and CFRP.

    The X7 would be BMW's ultra luxury SAV challenger in the high end luxury market , the market where the most growth will be thanks to demand for high end Super-luxury SUV's.

    The next choice will be to where BMW left off previously before the economic situation took hold. And that is with the BMW CS. Shown as a Concept at the Shanghai autoshow in 2007. Had everything turned out ok economically the CS would be hitting the market around now.
    The Gran Coupe if you will is very much the CS that has arisen like a phoenix from the ashes. Which if you look at that turnaround from CS to Gran Coupe it is highly significant as the timeframe was more or less the same.

    Had the CS commenced then we would have had that car arrive around now in V8 and V10 form. Since a "Father" of M was in charge of the project it was only right that a completely reworked highly successful V10 be the powerplant of choice.
    Now that the luxury market is growing , BMW are working on the second attempt (or is that third ;)).
    Again a four door Coupe positioned above the 7er is the strategy again , based on the new architecture and involving the alu-CFRP mix of material technology , design is not finalised but expect a more sporting look like before but inherited from the next 7er.

    BMW M1
    BMW M would like to do such a car but now is not the time.
    For such a car to be achieveable BMW needs the resources from BMW i and that will not happen for a couple of years until BMW can maintain full volume of CFRP production. The first car to achieve the transition from BMW i will be the next generation BMW 7er in 2015.
    It will be by then that BMW can start to look at what such a car can evolve into.
    As of now BMW's sports cars strategy lie with the upcoming BMW i8 and BMW i8 Spyder models. These are the priority before any other project moves forward. What is known is that the projects priority is weight reduction, extensive material technology costs a lot of money which is why some cars only use what they can. BMW's CFRP investment will overcome this obstacle and will use extensive CFRP construction and possibly use a variant of the
    S63Tu or if BMW feels more inclined to downsize, A V10 could be possible as a future V12 replacement? The recent partnership with Toyota will not result in such a car as BMW M will prefer going alone.
    Although BMW and Toyota are expected to collaborate on a future sustainable sports car.

    Rolls-Royce "GHOST" Coupe , DropHead Coupe,
    Of course one brand that has been successful even in economic decline is Rolls-Royce with two models the Ghost and the Phantom, A Rolls-Royce is what you treat youself to for a job well done. The Ghost has now followed the Phantom and added an Extended Wheelbase model. But now the Ghost progresses again like the Phantom with two highly awaited Ghost models - The Coupe and The DropHead Coupe which are now testing outside in the public around Munich.

    The Ghost is already a beautiful car , The new Coupe and DropHead models extend that beauty a new sleeker roofline merges into a sleeker rear overhang which still encases a full size trunk.

    The disguise kind of makes the car like the 1999 IAA Concept the BMW Z9 Gran Turismo, but underneath lies one of the most beautiful and signifcant cars for the luxury market. Proportions are more shrunk and there is styling differences from the Ghost on the Coupe and DropHead Coupe models especially at the front and rear of the car.
    The Ghost Coupe is expected to be on sale by early 2014 and first with an advantage , an EX Concept car is scheduled for Geneva 2013.
    The sleeker looks of the Coupe are to show Rolls-Royce intentions and what kind of customer they are aiming for. With the car getting a more sporting drive from the already dynamically sound Ghost to give Bentley and the GT a scare.

    Aswell as a Ghost, Ghost EWB ,Coupe and DropHead Coupe.
    There is also potential for a more luxurious four door Coupe model , a sort of extended Ghost Coupe with four doors for those that would like the Coupe but have children or business needs.
    Some Rolls-Royce customers have one RR and even some have an example of every model that RR makes in their garage. Like the Ghost it is hoped that the customer has a Ghost or indeed is new to the brand and of course both these models will be fully available with bespoke personalisation.

    Recent trademarks by BMW of "Corniche" and "Carmague" have been logged but the full names will not be known until the debut in September 2013 at the IAA in Frankfurt. 2014-Rolls-Royce-Ghost-Coupe-prototype.
  2. SKY

    SKY Well-Known Member

    When are going to see the first test mules of the G11 7er?. Could the BMW-Toyota be the M-Two?.
  3. shonguiz

    shonguiz Well-Known Member

    So there will be an I8, an M1 and third one with toyota, none of which are super cars ?
  4. Levi68

    Levi68 Banned

    I think Toyota Supra / BMW M Two, sort of 911/Cayman rivals.

    @Scott: Is this outdated ? Is this the X7 ? That is how an X7 must look like. It must have presence but also be sporty.

  5. Levi68

    Levi68 Banned

    ^ If that is the X7, it is even more ugly htan the EXP 9 F. Huge fail.
  6. SKY

    SKY Well-Known Member

    You are expecting the same from a RR BMW than from an X6 or X5. You´ll be pissed if you think the X7 is gonna be as sporty as the X5.
  7. Levi68

    Levi68 Banned

    The X5 is not sporty, it is utilitarian. The X6 is sporty. And the X7 should combine both BMW M and Rolls-Royce, as it has to compete against both the EXP 9 F which is luxurious and the Urus which is sporty.
  8. SKY

    SKY Well-Known Member

    Nah, the X5 is more than utilitarian. Utilitarian is the GL, the ML or the Q7. The X5 is the most sporty SAV right now, toe to toe with the Cayenne. A bigger X5 won´t sufice to sell. X7 needs to be less sporty than the X5 in the same way a 7er is less sporty than a 5er.

    You mention the Urus and the FAIL 9 F. Neither of them are pretty IMO. X7 should seat in the middle. It won´t be as RR based as the Bentley, nor as X6-ish as the Urus. I wouldn´t expect a performance version neither. But if Autobild is right, and the new BMW V12 has 570 PS + Hybrid power, the X7 60i will be nothing but perfect in terms of size/performance.

    I have no doubts the new uber BMWs are not gonna be a letdown. A look at the CS is enough to say that.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. hoffmeister_fan

    hoffmeister_fan Well-Known Member

    Scott, since this thread is discussing the future of BMW's high end offering, what of the Phantom? When will it be replaced?

    My thoughts on upcoming BMWs....

    The X7 leaves me ambivalent. As long as it's not a monstrosity like that Bentley, then it'll do fine. However, the current 5GT should not a be a jumping-off point.

    That 7er render looks fantastic. While it's wishful thinking, I would love it to be a reincarnation of the E38 employing the upcoming generation of BMW's design language. Slimmed down headlights seem like a good start towards that.

    I would welcome a car that's like the M1 Hommage but doesn't look like it. I don't mind a few heritage design quirks (shark-nose, H-kink, etc.) here and there, but the whole thing shouldn't be a blast from the past, especially for a car that'll be seen as a potential halo for the marque. It ought to be forward-looking.

    The RWD 2-series (or whatever it'll be called) needs to employ alot of the weight-saving measures. The current 1 series is is too bulky in weight and appearance.

    While the new 5er is a ways away, I also hope that car slims down and drives like a modern reinterpretation of the E39.

    Curious to see how BMW will implement CRFP, aluminum, and other materials in the interest of saving weight. IMO, I wouldn't consider BMW a leader in CRFP construction until we start seeing cars on the street from BMW being being made with CRFP.
  10. klier

    klier Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    No it is not. Maybe in appearance to you, but the 1er is an agile, nimble car. Go drive one.

    I think around the time when the next gen 7er will get facelifted. Like, 2018 or something....

    You do realize that the X5 and X6 is pretty much exactly the same car do you? And that they are equally sporty/not sporty?
    Speaking of the X5 and X6 btw....I hope that next gen, they give the X6 it's own interior, instead of an X5 copy-and-paste with kneepads. I'm thinking like 5er ----> 6er differences.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Levi68

    Levi68 Banned

    What makes a SUV or any car sporty is the low profile windows / high shoulder line. Just like it looks on the sketch I posted.

    About the interior of next X5/X6 I agree, it would be nice for them to be different like the 5/6 Series. But it looks like 3/4 Series get the same interior. Now everything depends on what would increase sales : Would a 4 Series with different interior increase sales ? Probably not, what the buyers look for is a coupé or convertible. Would an X6 with different interior increase sales ? Probably yes. If you buy an X6 it is not for utilitarian purpose, but for image. It would do good if the X6 would have a more differentiable interior and exterior.

    PS: That X4/X5/X7 sketch or what that is, looks very very muscular.
  12. klier

    klier Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    No, what makes a SUV sporty is the way it drives, not the way it looks. And the X5 and X6 drive the same.

    As for the interior of the 3er/4er being the same. That's maybe because it's not worth it in this class. The X5 and X6 are pretty expensive though, so maybe it's worthwhile here?
  13. Levi68

    Levi68 Banned

    Less window surface reduces weight, and less weight on the top of the car improves handling.

    e70-e71 blueprint.

    You can clearly see the X6 has less high side windows than the X5, it gives the X6 it a sportier appearrance.
  14. klier

    klier Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    Yeah, it sure does. I am talking about something a bit more substantial than that though.
  15. SKY

    SKY Well-Known Member

    I can´t see how the X7 probable look is arguable. It has to be less sporty than the X5, classier, more elegant, more 7er like. I would expect aggressive looking front and rear ends with classier 7er-like side profile. This could be a total homerun.

    But what I´m really eager to see is the new BMW interiors. I asume the G11 7er is not gonna have the same interior than the F01 in terms of buttons and layout. It would be nice to see it more based on the CS Concept.

    But I think the new BMWs interior language hasn´t been decided yet.

    EDIT: Btw SCOTT, are the Z expansion plan still active? It would be sooo lovely to see an SL rival as a new Z8...
  16. bombardier01

    bombardier01 Well-Known Member

    It looks like the X7 will be like 5er touring with more height. And looks very sleek & dynamic too. I hope Scott can provide us with a better picture of this X7..:) IMG00189-20120705-2208.
  17. SCOTT27

    SCOTT27 Well-Known Member Contributing Member

    The Phantom will be replaced around 2016. Again the Phantom will share much with the modular architecture on the 7er that will also unerpin the Ghost and Phantom and their respective variants.​
    The big news is that the Phantom's showpiece alumnium structure will now feature across the other models but utilise a more exotic CFRP/Aluminium mix , BMW are developing the main frame to be modular so it can be applied to other models.​
    The design is not quite finalised but some are looking like more larger Ghosts (more rounder styling) with some very beautiful detailing, I especially like how some are actual playing to the history with classic looks reinterpreted for a modern high-tech appearance.​

    The carry over from the GT in terms of design inspiration will be the interior , X7 will be a full seven seater plus you will have the option of a four seater in which a console will seperate the two rear seats. X7 will be entering a market where the very best will do so interior detailing and quality will be like the 7er with a lot of high tech features such as passenger HUD and touch panel communication and entertainment as previewed on the Vision ConnectedDrive concept car and coming to the new 7er.​

    LED technology has now become more intricate that detailing can be applied as it is designed initially.​
    If you squint and imagine it a fraction bigger you get an inclination of the look of the BMW 4er.​
    Following on from the initial first appearance in the BMW i8. The next 7er will also feature the option of laser powered headlights.​

    There is not much to go here because there is no design strategy or process in place for the car as yet, some have made sketches but that it just early process. The Autobild 25th concept was one idea which shows the language from the BMW Vision ConnectedDrive which forms the new Roadster design language.​
    Any aspects of engineering etc are just really on paper and on computer as initial ideas. One thing though is that the BMW M-One will not be a complete revival of the M1 Hommage. That is all that car was just a Hommage. Whilst I expect some design elements of the M1 to feature in one way or the other I do not think it will look like the actual hommage car designed back in 2007.​

    The 1er is actually very good to drive in its current form. Over the past weeks I have driven a 116d EfficientDynamics , and the M135i in striking Valencia Orange and they are both worlds apart as expected but they both had the measure of the sum of their parts with their own unique abilities.​
    The M135i is not as some media say a successor to the 1M , more of a 135i MSport successor although this time we finally get the hatch. The 2er like the 4er will feature more significant changes to help distinguish the cars further from their relevant sisters.​

    The next 5er , 6er et variants will benefit from the development of the next 7er. The current architecture that generates under the current models has a higher profitability margin than the last generation, because of extensive sharing.​

    BMW are already a leader in CFRP and not just because of the BMW i investment.​
    If you take the M3 CSL you had a car based on a volume car with an expensive area of material technology. because of that the margins on the CSL were razor thin but since BMW went ahead with CFRP they have managed to bring it down to a cost effective level which is why The previous and current M6 and the M3 E92 and forthcoming M4 can now use it widely. Our competitors cannot add CFRP to their performance line without increasing the price to a level above the similar M car. That CFRP from the M3 and M6 is not volume-level but the BMW i investment of mass producued CFRP will be extremely advantageous for BMW and of course their new partner Toyota.​

    The first BMW CFRP car is of course the BMW i3. And later this year the media will get the opportunity for a ride along through Munich in a prototype so they can get a feel for how the car copes in the urban environment. The BMW i3 and BMW i8 will also be on show at the BMW Pavillion at London 2012.​
  18. K-A

    K-A Banned

    Are you sure about that? Windows are very light and thin, and to make less window space, you need to make up for it with more sheetmetal, which is heavier. "4 Door Coupe" versions of Sedans always weigh more, actually. Also, the "4 Door Coupe" cars usually have longer overhangs, which are technically less "sporty".
  19. Levi68

    Levi68 Banned

  20. K-A

    K-A Banned

    I actually was more asking than being argumentative, just noticed that post didn't come across that way. lol.

    The "non 4 Door Coupe" versions of cars usually do seem to perform better when given equal drivetrains though.
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