German Car Forum

Nope of course his connection don't allow him to be rude on others, on one can seriously think that way

Exactly. Just because EnI has more connections than most of us certainly doesn't mean that he can talk his way through the forums as if he is better than the rest. It's just not right, especially considering that some of his posts don't reflect the amount of knowledge that he possesses.

Of course, EnI should stay. GCF wouldn't be the same without CM, Scott, and EnI. Although I'm not a BMW fan, I do like to stay updated and Scott, EnI do just that; talk about their company and share news about upcoming models. However, this doesn't mean that they can necessarily look down upon us, especially some of the more experienced people in this forum.

As long as EnI is a little more careful with what he says, then I welcome him and his knowledge. He's already said that he will be more careful, and I have little reason to doubt him.

^

Eg. when me or SCOTT get some internal info, and beside that having quite an insight in the industry - that gives us a bit more confident & stronger arguments in debates, don't you think.

And when some member appears with a counter-info based on a rumor from some auto mag etc. it's all we can say he is wrong. At least regarding BMW case, or some business & marketing issues in my case.

And if his persistence don't stop even when explained WHY & HOW is he wrong, then it's not other reaction possible than labeling him as ignorant. What else can be done when somebody is spreading wrong info, and you know that? Calling him liar? Is that better? Since sometimes CM can't disclose some info - despite knowing it. So - it's hard to argue sometimes ... fighting with rumors.

So, BMW propaganda is not OK, while such antipropaganda as described above is?
The difference in levels of insight, info & knowledge can be very bothering sometimes ... Very hard to argue & debate if not being on same level.
And I guess we are old enough that some pampering & extra delicate handling is not necessary. So, saying someone he is wrong / ignorant can't also be deserved.

Imagine me - despite not knowing a lot about the issue - lecturing Martin & playing Mr. SmartyPants when debating with martinbo on some very technical issues about drivetrain systems etc. I guess he would win the debate ... Since he is an authority here regarding that specific field.

But when eg. a fight about some BMW, marketing, or business issues is on, it looks like some with a degree in eg. civil engineering, design, art etc tries to be smarter than some with a degree in marketing or business or management etc. And there are even cases he / she wins a debate on completely false arguments. It's unfair & frustrating - since the wrong info is delivered as a truth in the end.


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Regarding "special role" ... As you can see there are good & bad sides ... Good sides: being allowed to be more direct in language without being moderated etc. Bad sides: being dragged through the mud almost every single month & being under constant attacks & accusations - a pressure not seen in other cases when "regular" members are in question. Otherwise no other special privileges - beside the influence. But, c'mon , CM, SCOTT & I have been on scene in a very active role for 8 years now! So, some reputation comes with that as well ... and the influence. Etc. IMO it was earned ... And I guess sometimes we have the privilege to rest on the old glory for a while ... taking a moment off.

if the whole role of bmw cm is to stir discussion (with a goal to increase mindshare, which bmw has plenty in thie forum), and create favorable impression in the minds of consumers, then it has failed miserably.

what bmw cm is doing here, is pretty much like those hyundai commercials we hate, instead of informing people of bmw's engineering prowess, they bash other brands, i find this method very "uncool" to be conducted by such a established brand, thus putting bmw in a negative light. bmw cm actually makes me want to buy their car less than before, and i believe i am not alone here.

well i guess i just feel sorry that bmw is being portrayed so negatively by bmw cm (i USED to love this brand), i'd say please stay, as i personally dont feel offended by them, and the non-sense are a good laugh.

So you do see the pattern? No one anywhere likes a member with such rude attitudes, especially when you are NOT that well informed. The world today is a democracy. Tyrants and dictators are so last century. People burn them at the stakes.

And for the umpteenth time, EnI you ALWAYS associate yourself with CM and BMW.

But you are NOT, definitely not with your info which is hardly accurate.

As with your pm, if you think people should not be that fanatic with their religion, I've got news for you : you yourself, should not be that fanatic with BMW. It's not even your God and you don't even hold a single share of it.

For example : Fact is, Audi and VW are doing great while BMW is no longer known as a supercar maker and they're pulling off of F1. That says something so it's no use attacking the VAG Group because guess what? They're doing great, best of all the European carmakers in this time of recession. BMW, not so great.

FYI : I was a huge BMW fan. But YOU, gave the brand a bad name not just for me but other fans and enthusiasts. Borrowing your words, a church fanatic does give the religion a bad name and that is exactly what you do.
So no, we should not quit being BMW fans only because of you but yes, we like BMW less and even less with each of your fanatical post.

In summary, you are not doing BMW any favor. No, not at all.

Fact is, the Scotts may be BMW CM. But you? No, not at all.

I know people at my local BMW dealers regularly reading GCF and you know what? They are all disgusted at you because eventhough they do work for BMW, they have the highest respect to the other premium brands.

Now that's whom I'd call true BMW people.

You are definitely not alone.

I brought many friends fellow BMW fans here to GCF but after reading tons of EnI's posts they just stopped visiting anymore. What EnI is doing to his favorite brand is sad : he is destroying it from the inside.

One of the reasons this forum attracts a lot of new members but only a handful keeps active. They signed up, read, fed up and take off.

Of course you do because all you do is copy and paste their info to the Rennteam forum.

How about the courtesy of stating the source of your "info" there by a direct link here instead of the usual "insider info from another source/forum" ?

For heaven's sake man, the things you've earned isn't due to your friendly dialog but rather the information/knowledge you have. The reason you're constantly attacked is because you talk down to regular members who don't agree with you about how great/awesome/badass/etc., BMW is. I personally defend any brand that needs defending, but you attack every brand that is not linked with BMW somehow. That is what pisses us off. There are many things that I don't agree with or don't like and I avoid those threads, but you go in KNOWING you don't like it and start talking sh!t.

It wasn't always this bad Eni, but recently you've been getting a lot worse. The sh!t really hit the fan with the Mulsanne reveal. What the F__k happened to you man? Do you have a lot of stress or something that you take it out on us?

EXACTLY.

Why we, "regular members", are constantly told to "use the ignore function", blah blah blah, whereas super member moderator EnI constantly go in other threads fully intending to attack the thread subjects ?

@ conan

You've been pissed off & having strong negative feelings for me since few days back when I deleted all those posts (incl. many of yours) in that "Shock! ... " thread.

Before that there were no severe complaints & attacks from you at all ... How "strange".

Regarding my "fanatic" devilish advocation for BMW ... Yes, it started to be more aggressive lately - since also attacks on the brand are more severe (eg. constant bitching about too many SUVs & crossovers; no super car in portfolio; not enough motorsport involvement) ... And those are all legit complaints but ... Some here can debate in very polite & sophisticated level - and I have no problems with that when debate is substantiated with arguments. But when some people just scream around, and instead using counter arguments they start to call other people's arguments a BS / propaganda etc ... So do you really think all blame is on me? Why then I can have some great discussion about BMW with non-BMW fans - on a very sophisticated level. So - I can do that. Proving the problem is not in me.

Regarding other threads ... So, because being kind of BMW advocate at times - that means I'm not allowed to express thoughts & opinions on other brands / products?

Yes, usually I go there to make a critic ... And you should now that. It's like The Artist in BMW threads - we know in advance what his response will be, and that's it. No further polemics.
But when eg. SCOTT or I wrote something negative in eg. Audi or MB section (or even in Internal combustion section) many of you go bezerk. Why so? Double standard. Something I'm often accused of.


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This thread is here to establish a dialog ... At least with majority. Since I'm aware we can't be everybody's darlings.


Pattern? Yes, it is ... As said: I'm a very difficult & annoying person ... But usually not without a reason & arguments ... Otherwise I would be labeled as troll instantly, don't you think ...

The one thing Eni likes better than talking about BMW is talking about himself
How many pages does this have to go on???? Can't we get back to normal things now, everybody has made his point by now. Sheesh.

Also, this thread is here because the admin wanted to know what was up from the members, not to establish some sort of conversation. Now, 6 pages further, I would say everything has been said by anyone who wanted to say something. There is no conversation possible with Scott anyways....did he even reply to this thread?

Why don't you all chilax a bit and have a look at this beautiful chop someone did in another forum advocating a car that you two guys say BMW thinks there is no business case for.

^^ Absolutely magnificant! Badly want! With CSL rims.

No business case my a$$ Just like M3 CSL, this WILL sell. And good.

I would like this section and ENI and Scott to stay, BUT, ENI has to change his attitude, AND Scott has to stop deliberately posting misleading information. Whether Scott (I'm aware it's more than one person) thinks deliberately misleading people is part of the plan, he has to be aware that it just annoys people, which isn't good for BMW's image.

I don't think they should mod it either.

Oh c'mon Eni, you think I like all the bashing? I might not have as much interest in BMW as you (I still think you work for them. ) but I do love the ///M brand. For god's sake man, I have "M Power" in my damn sig. And even you admit that there are some legit complaints. The thing is going back and forth and name calling isn't going to change a thing, especially for people who are fanatics of other brands.

I don't think I've personally singled you out or called you a troll or anything, but I think the reason you're attacked more is because of the "powers" you've been given vs. us normal members. Also, you're involvement with BMWCM is heavily noticeable while the rest of us ain't got sh!t. So when a CM member takes potshots at another brand people are gonna gang up on you and when you delete posts (yes, even your own), you will be called out for being BMW's Bitch or whatnot. At times like those before things actually escalate and you're going up against fanboys, just get off that thread for a while, that's what I do.

At the end of the day Eni, it's the F__king internet man, don't take it so seriously, especially since you say you don't work for BMW. Just chill man. And the reason I can say this to you in this thread and not call out other members is because they know who they are and this thread is about dialog with you and Scott and not the rest of them.

Yes, perhaps some yoga / pilates class won't be a bad idea after all ...

Btw ... I'm trying to differentiate my CM & personal views more ... already seen in other threads lately.

Oh, I've been "powerless for quite some time now (until Scott section opening), and the attacks were still there in that time as well.

But OK ... I'll try to convince myself a bit more that being a lightning rod for the CM is a good thing after all.


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Regarding me giving BMW a bad name ... ... Are some of you really so weak that a behavior of one or two fanatics can influence your opinion. I feel some pity here ... I really do.

[quote=klier;405020]The one thing Eni likes better than talking about BMW is talking about himself
How many pages does this have to go on???? Can't we get back to normal things now, everybody has made his point by now. Sheesh.

Also, this thread is here because the admin wanted to know what was up from the members, not to establish some sort of conversation. Now, 6 pages further, I would say everything has been said by anyone who wanted to say something.

Agree 100%, why don't you shut this thread down EnI?

I have mixed feelings about BMW CM...

On the one hand, it is great to get some inside information on the latest upcoming products. Thanks!

On the other, I do not like the way it is done. Marketing is by definition; listening to the needs of the customer and then satisfying them. Scott or EnI rarely answer our questions regarding new products, let alone let us influence the outcome. All they do is plomp down some information in their spare time to tease us. There's nothing creative about that.

I can understand that BMW just wants to make profitable cars. However, as a consequence, BMW is going down in popularity in my book due to several worrying announcements. Instead of putting time in exciting car like a 1-series M or a Z4M, they put their efforts into an X6M, X1 and 5-series GT! I don't have the numbers, but I'm willing to bet that the European demand for an 1-series ///M is much higher than for a small SUV like the X1, especially now that car taxes are becoming more reliant on Co2-outputs. It comes to show that the execs working at BMW HQ pay absolutely no attention to their current customers' needs, just their revenue and income by targeting new customers. Ever heard of building up a sustainable relationship with your customers and customer loyalty? I know Scott or EnI have no influence on the executive board, but we have to wave the red flag!

What should BMW do, you ask?

Bring BMW ///M back to it's roots; High-revving NA race-cars for the road
Seperate BMW ///M from Efficient Dynamics
Use another brand (e.g. Tii) to mix ED and ///M
Focus on weight saving instead of cost saving and BHP at BMW (///M)
Manual transmission standard, DCT optional on all cars
Fulfill needs of current customers instead of trying to target new customers

Disclaimer: These critics come from a concerned fan of BMW.

We are not here to influence the strategies of BMW, that is done ny others, we are simply getting to know what has been decided, albeit a little earlier than others. Sweet.

If the price for this information is that not eberything we get to know about works out the way described; fine.

What is "information" that doesn't work out? Speculation or worse? And things just aren't that fluid with car design, so lets not give the "things changed" excuse weight.

Disagree dr Dunkel, it's not fine most of the time, and it comes at too high of a price in my view, cloaked with ego, inuendo and insults.

What's interesting is that everyone just accepts that this is all some elaborate BMW Creative Marketing initiative instead of some guy who helps put together the brochures at BMW and some other guy who has a buddy that works there chatting about cars with no more knowledge than anyone else.

Often, all of this vague, general information could have been surmised by anyone who likes cars. Telling us the next version will be more powerful and more fuel efficient or drive superbly and have a more sporting characteristic isn't exactly insider information when it comes to new models of cars. Let me guess...they'll also have 4 tires and a steering wheel? It's the magazines, forum members, other blog writers and entities like Brenda Priddy who provide the spy shots that really excite readers. As well, telling us that artitisc interpretations of future models aren't exactly like the real thing isn't information either. Those mock-ups are never 100% accurate.

While the forum is certainly entertaining and a great place for people who like cars and the automobile industry, I wouldn't necessarily drink the koolaid of it being a BMW initiative.

As for extremeism in brand loyalty...well that's just odd behaviour. Not everyone loves BMW and it's not from lack of money or knowledge of cars. Defending BMW to the last breath when you don't own the company is just bizarre. Maybe if you're Norbert Reithofer, Adrian van Hooydonk or one of the Quandt family members I could see some extra enthusiasm but if you're just another 25 year old who managed to come up with enough money for a lease payment on your 3-series...then you may want to relax a tad. They're just cars.

+ 1,000,000,000,000 !!

OMG, your tone is one of a BMW hater. You are being extremely unfair. Sure we would never know for surei if Scott or Eni are who theysay they are, but everything they've divulged has been accurate to this date and the stuff they tell us is not as you mentioned (4 wheels and the like). Maybe if you actually read their posts you would see that. I think you need to relax a tad.As for extremeism in brand loyalty...well that's just odd behaviour.

"Not everyone loves BMW and it's not from lack of money or knowledge of cars. Defending BMW to the last breath when you don't own the company is just bizarre." Have you considered that maybe BMW is a really good company to work for. I would defend my company.

To be fair, I'm not Scott's biggest fan. And that's a gross understatement. But it is clear he is privvy to some pretty interesting info. If only he would just reveal it without all the arrogance, smugness, and conceitedness. When some people criticise marketing campaigns (the JOY commercials for one) then he/they accuse the people of not understanding the concept. He/they doesn't seem to realise that if you come onto a forum in your guise as a BMW insider, with the approval of the BMW marketing department, then you are representing the company. "Playing" with the fans and your customer base, however insignificant it is compared to the overall customer base, is not a good idea at all. BMW have certainly gone down in my estimation over the last two years due to the attitude of BMW's creative marketing department.

It does this website/forum no favours at all to be seen as too close to BMW. The same goes for BMWblog which is increasingly coming across as another department of BMW. No doubt BMWblog will be along shortly to say I am wrong, but they need to realise you cannot APPEAR to be too close to the very subject you are focusing on. People do not like to be fooled and duped.



Fanboyism is the only thing I hate more than creative marketing.

Actually I quite like some BMW vehicles but I certainly don't "love" or "hate" BMW AG....it's just a company that builds cars and bikes. The defending of BMW to which I am referring is not from those who work for BMW AG but by the many other forum members who have no affiliation to the company but still feel the need to defend the company and its products.

I have read many posts and I don't believe there is very much specific information that isn't already out in the media. Many auto publications speculate on future models with the same accuracy and specificity as can be found here.

I think many of the contributions here are great and it all makes for an interesting forum. I am certainly not suggesting anyone stops posting or that it is wrong information, I am just saying that I doubt very much that BMW AG has anything to do with these posts nor do I believe they have a "creative marketing" department. In fact I think BMW AG should create or buy a forum and news blog and offer more inside news to their fans. I think it would be very interesting to see how a vehicle is conceived and brought to market with all the thousands of decisions that go in to making a concept and production car.