German Car Forum

SCOTT27 · 08-03-2009, 09:24 AM

Something has to end for something new to begin.

Preparing the world for i-Setta. The fourth BMW Group brand.
i-Setta will be developed alongside MIN-i.

BMW Isetta image campaign launched by the BMW Museum

Dr. Ralf Rodepeter, Head of BMW Museum

BMW Isetta image campaign by the BMW Museum

EnI · 08-03-2009, 09:37 AM

Posted in November 2007.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnI

According to the latest internal info BMW are almost 100% decided to start a new - the 4th - brand, and not buying an existing one.

The 4th brand will offer "new urban mobility solutions" - a family of innovative, simple , green, and extremely energy efficient vehicles.

The debate is still going on whether to revive the iSetta brand BMW still owns, or create a completely new brand from scratch.

The guys in marketing department are leaning towards iSetta revival - this time with low-case "i" & capital "S": iSetta. Positioning the brand as Apple of the automotive world: innovative & very useful products with stylish simple design. Kinda a "smart" by BMW, but much more stylish & green oriented. Not cheap though.

iSetta - with similar logotype as Apple products (low-case "i", followed by capital letter) - is considered be produced in cooperation with partners. There is also an idea to cooperate with Apple: Apple offering special series of iPod, iPhone, iTouch etc designed specially for iSetta, and developing 100% Apple compatible entertainment system.

iSetta is planned to rival "smart" & other upcoming micro-cars - offering stylish design, iconic image (innovative, futuristic, green), green tech, low energy consumption, simple approach, ... Targeting young people, urban population, style-conscious people ... a premium funky green car. A personal urban mover?

Mind that iSetta is still an idea only - not a fact! Not really creative indeed, but with a incredible potential for success.

Perhaps it will end as "isetta" or "Isetta" or "ISETTA" or even "ISetta" in the end. Who knows.

iSetta ... as a rival to jet-setter.

iSetta ... I setting the trends, the future, the style, the technology, the values, the route.

iSetta ... a personal urban mover. The "I" setting car.
"I" as I, "I" as innovation, "I" as idea, "I" as intelligence, "I" as ideals.

dr Dunkel · 08-03-2009, 10:08 AM

So, the iSetta is beginning, but what is ending?

SCOTT27 · 08-03-2009, 10:08 AM

Additionally the economic climate originally vetoed the choice for a fourth brand initially.

But now with the F1 programme cancelled we will now launch our megacity vehicle under a fourth brand , although the same platform will spawn a seperate MINI to be termed MIN-i.

i-Setta will be a reimagining of the original cult classic using today's and tomorrows technology to provide urban mobility and sustainability in a lovable modern design wholly inspired by the original.

The first beginnings are expected to be showcased @ Geneva 2010.

dr Dunkel · 08-03-2009, 10:10 AM

Away with F1 and bring the megacity vehicle...

Human · 08-03-2009, 10:28 AM

Great! This project will stretch BMW AG's lead in sustainability and broaden it's reach as a manufacturer.....leaving more room and credit for BMW V8's and V12's

Seriously I think in terms of Strategy No.1 it's great

martinbo · 08-03-2009, 10:48 AM

As nauseating as it may be - one can't dismiss the logic behind it all.

The world does need better city cars and more of them.

In my opinion we are seeing a very disheartening (for the enthusiast at least) shift. Performance cars that double as viable urban commuters are, inevitably an anachronism. I marvel at how many stupendous cars trundle about in the local commute down here in Jozi. In peak hour traffic, amidst massive-scale road reconstruction I sit and contemplate what the difference would be between sitting behind the wheel of the trusty, paid-for Polo or crawling along behind the wheel of, say, a new, not-paid-for GTI.

Other than the brag factor for being scoped behind the wheel of a hot car - there's little difference. Were all going at the same speed, bearing up with the conjestion, feeling the same time-constrained stress. And there's nothing that a fancy display, perforated leather upholstery or Bang and Olufsen set of options can really do to numb the pain.

We need to think more closely about the nature and purpose of commuting vs. touring vs. performance driving. Beyond a small, frugal and compact hot hatch (if you really really need at least a modicum of driver enjoyment on the trip home through corners 37 and 45) most vehicles are simply wasted doing duty in the urban crawl.

I personally will be hanging on to this little, reliable and frugal Polo. The wife (who does far less commuting) can live with the compact SUV which is nice as a "soccer mom's" car and I can get on with the job of looking for a nice play thing for when the occasion and conditions permit.

By no means am I advocating this kind of thinking for everyone - but for those of us who see little point in depreciating an expensive car unnecessarily in traffic conjestion, something like a modern iteration of an Isetta could make a lot of sense.

braaf · 08-03-2009, 11:21 AM

^Martin hoping you can answer my question. its related to the thread as these vehicles will ultimately be electrically powered. My question is can you have an electric motor and attach it to an eg. 6 speed DCT gearbox thereby making the motor more effecient.

The reason for me asking is because I've noticed that all EV devolopment consist of vehicles with either no gearbox or 1 or 2 speed gearboxes.

Thaeschendy · 08-03-2009, 11:51 AM

Heres what I think about gearboxes and electric engines:
A gearbox helps to keep the engine in a range of rpm that is efficiant. An electric engine has a wider efficiant rpm range than a combustion engine (and a totally different torque-curve). Since a larger gearbox is less efficiant than a small one (not always, but when talking about a two speed vs. a six speed box...) and heavier you better choose the lighter, smaller and cheaper box over a larger one with more gears that is not necessary in this case.

About the new i-Setta brand: I think, that creating a new brand is a good choice to not "weaken" the sporty image that bmw or mini have with a cityvehicle, that can not have (and does not have to as martinbo mentioned) that sportyness every bmw should have.
I´m really curious about whats coming up!

martinbo · 08-03-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braaf

^Martin hoping you can answer my question. its related to the thread as these vehicles will ultimately be electrically powered. My question is can you have an electric motor and attach it to an eg. 6 speed DCT gearbox thereby making the motor more effecient.

The reason for me asking is because I've noticed that all EV devolopment consist of vehicles with either no gearbox or 1 or 2 speed gearboxes.

The simplest answer braaf is that, the power and torque delivery characteristics of an electric motor are significantly different to that of an internal combustion engine. The ICE is a funny thing, it requires x amount of rpm to make maximum torque, whereas an electric motor can generate max torque from just after 0 rpm.

Hence, the more gears (in theory) you give an internal combustion engine the more you extend the ability of the engine to operate within in its optimum rev range as speed increases or decreases.

For an electric motor (gearboxes are commonly applied in industrial applications to manage output shaft speed), given its broad power delivery capability over a wider rpm range, the only reason to fit a gearbox would be to achieve higher top speeds for the vehicle.

One of the best practical demonstrations of this would be for you to take a Golf cart for a spin!

braaf · 08-03-2009, 12:13 PM

^Thanks Martin and Thaes. I take it electric motors spin alot higher than ICE.

jack · 08-03-2009, 03:15 PM

i am digging the idea of reviving isetta (it just fits perfectly)
but the last posts regarding this topic where that the economic climate was too rough for a 4th brand and that the MIN-i is going inherit everything
so what happened ? the plans must have been up in the air since a long time now since bmw is already starting an isetta image campaign
so do we still need a MIN-i?

btw: when are we going to see the reason why chris bangle left?
it must have been something huge - something like this ?

NarutoRamen · 08-03-2009, 03:28 PM

I might be in the minority here, but as nice and quirky the original was, please don't pay enough homage to the car by making the new one a 3-wheeler. 4 wheels please.

jack · 08-03-2009, 03:43 PM

reithofer once said in an interview that there is no market for a three-wheeler

edit:what i wanted to add
i hope that bmw won't go the retro way with the New iSetta design
it needs to be done like they did it with the mini
a 1:1 design transformation - like it has been done with the VW Beetle - can be fatal

coolraoul · 08-03-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braaf

^Thanks Martin and Thaes. I take it electric motors spin alot higher than ICE.

Yeah, they rev much higher. But more, the electric motor doesn't depend on rev to build power. You get full power/torque from standstill, thus no need to maintain a certain amount of revs to have power.

Thus, no need to have a gearbox, if the gear ratio is set properly considering the max speed and acceleration you want. If the max speed is too limited, then you can add a second gear. More is not necessary.

adambravo · 08-03-2009, 05:04 PM

Well, I'm a bit confused. These videos look like an effort to promote the museum; I don't see or hear anything suggesting they're bringing back the brand, and I can't find a reference to the headliner quote, "Something has to end..."

jack · 08-03-2009, 05:37 PM

bmw isn't pointing directly to the isetta
but these videos want to bring the isetta back into peoples minds
i guess that the indrect isetta campaign is getting more intense till geneva(?)

NarutoRamen · 08-03-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack

but these videos want to bring the isetta back into peoples minds

Exactly. Subtle hints because they don't want to give anything away just yet.

dr Dunkel · 08-03-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinbo

By no means am I advocating this kind of thinking for everyone - but for those of us who see little point in depreciating an expensive car unnecessarily in traffic conjestion, something like a modern iteration of an Isetta could make a lot of sense.

...and this is the point of it all. Today, and I can only take Stockholm as an example, there are thousands of cars running around without even a catalytic converter. These cars are always owned by poor people. Poor people need to be forced into the 21 century and that force will not be applied upon them until there are feasible options for them.

NarutoRamen · 08-03-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr Dunkel

...and this is the point of it all. Today, and I can only take Stockholm as an example, there are thousands of cars running around without even a catalytic converter. These cars are always owned by poor people. Poor people need to be forced into the 21 century and that force will not be applied upon them until there are feasible options for them.

The force can only be applied if there is a cheap alternative. There is no point in going into debt to where you can't even pay your rent just so you can save the F__king environment.

bum-man · 08-03-2009, 06:49 PM

Is it customary for Germans to take stuff that doesn't belong to them?

Oh, and by the looks of it the Isetta is a 4-wheeler it just has a very narrow rear track.

dr Dunkel · 08-03-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NarutoRamen

The force can only be applied if there is a cheap alternative. There is no point in going into debt to where you can't even pay your rent just so you can save the F__king environment.

Well, there is always the option to put a gigantic vehicle tax on old cars but that is note doable politically. Like I said, there has to be a cheap enough option for the poor people. Not until then, we can have no real inpact on the invironment (as it is now, they are targeting 1/10.000 of the population, just because they are rich). Not that the private usage of cars make any real difference, that is just decided by politiciancians as it is an easy target, what we eat influence the co2 much mote, at a factor of about 10.

All measures have to be taken towards the masses, not the elite.

rurella · 08-03-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr Dunkel

Well, there is always the option to put a gigantic vehicle tax on old cars but that is note doable politically. Like I said, there has to be a cheap enough option for the poor people. Not until then, we can have no real inpact on the invironment (as it is now, they are targeting 1/10.000 of the population, just because they are rich). Not that the private usage of cars make any real difference, that is just decided by politiciancians as it is an easy target, what we eat influence the co2 much mote, at a factor of about 10.

All measures have to be taken towards the masses, not the elite.

Excellent post, I would respectfully change your last sentence to read "not just the elite".

dr Dunkel · 08-03-2009, 08:04 PM

...and I would gladly agree!

SCOTT27 · 08-03-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Well, I'm a bit confused. These videos look like an effort to promote the museum; I don't see or hear anything suggesting they're bringing back the brand, and I can't find a reference to the headliner quote, "Something has to end..."

Something has to end - BMW in F1.

Yes. The concept is to promote the BMW Museum but as with marketing you have to find the hidden meaning. Isetta is iconic to BMW.
By advertising the Isetta by means of promoting the museum we are giving people the opportunity to understand our history.
Some people are ignorant in their BMW history and think everything begins with the M3. Besides this is another element of our "Joy" campaign as well bringing these little Isettas and leaving them for people to find is quite ingenious because they are picking them up and taking them home, back to the office etc. A piece of "Joy" left for them .

Think about you are having a bad day at the office and you wander into the streets for a cigarette to escape from the pressure and you find an arrangement of these small Isettas on a bench or beside a fountain or at a table at a cafe or bier haus. You pick it up you look at it , you examine it and you smile.

When Isetta was originally launched the campaign was of simularities to today's "Joy" it was a reflection of those times in post war Germany and the beginning of prosperity and a bright future.

And when the time comes people will be able to identify the i-Setta as that small iconic little car someone picked up off a street reimagined as a modern concept.

Besides I do not think giving away miniature M3's would have the same effect as the Isetta.

And especially our Munich based members can post their findings here. And dont worry if you cannot make it to Munich , BMW will also promote the Museum at the IAA so you could be looking at the new Mercedes SLS or Grand Bentley and find a line of Isettas on the car.

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Something has to end for something new to begin..