German Car Forum

Wow! I must be hanging around the wrong places. I guess maybe people just don't see the need for such a car here, or maybe there are some people with real money in Auckland. The car costs over AUD 1 million here, a bit too much for most people. To buy a car like that and not bat an eyelid, I would imagine you'd want to have a net worth of at least AUD 50 million, probably much more than that.

None of your comments have "irritated" me Roberto...just a little firm in my repsonses sometimes...

From the people who have driven the S550, ie the professional reviewers in the print media and TV, the car has "obliterated" everything else on the market to date. Each has in their own words indicated that the new S is the best luxury sedan in the world. Will it be after BMW or Audi or someother name come out with a new model...who knows. Sales show the car is being well accepted wherever it is introduced so that is the "real hard fact of the matter" when it comes to success.

Come to NYC and you'll see how many Phantoms and Flying Bricks roam the streets here. What has Mercedes-Benz done to you that you hate everything it stands for?

Anyway, as for this survey, who gives a s**t what they think?
Tell me a potential buyer of a car such as the S-Class worries about what JD Power has to say. The numbers show for themselves. They didn't like the previous S and they still sold anyway. The new S-Class has been selling in record numbers and that proves them wrong.
People buy the S-Class for its name, reputation, power and prestige. You like something, you buy it. You don't let others dictate you into buying what they think is better.

JD Powers employees are no more qualified to judge the quality of a car than they are toasters and washing machines. They do nothing more than compile data from self created survey forms from a uncontrolled source of users. They mix subjective questions with objective questions and then categorize what they think the answers suggest. To them a negative response on the design of a cup holder has as much weight as the design of a 7 speed transmission. They are in consumer market research field for money, not to help the consumer make a better choice.

Their recognized "standard of the world" is the little trophy like awards they make and sell licenses for. Manufacturers love to gloat over this whether it be automobiles or corn flakes. They have taken the Consumers Report to another level. They are as objective as they need to be to gain more audience and convince people like yourself that they know more about a products reliability and features. You have your opinion of JD Powers and I have mine...as you grow older and wiser you may find that companies like JD Powers do not have your interests, nor the improvement of the product lines in mind. They only have the interest of JD Powers in mind and what methods they can use to create greater income for them and their stock holders. I am trying to be "objective" as I can but in the case of JD Powers, I am afraid my subjectivity outweighs it.

BTW...they include a fresh One Dollar bill in each survey request...a token of their thanks for taking the time to respond.

I've seen maybe 2-3 Phantoms in Sydney. I've seen a dark purple one at the Sheraton on the Park on Elizabeth Street a few times - it looks impressive.
I've seen maybe the same number of Maybachs, but perhaps only one Flying Brick. The Conti GT is reasonably popular, though - I've seen more than half a dozen.

Anyhow, I wouldn't go so far as to say that JD Power is only an adder of numbers. There is a science to constructing effective surveys and perhaps in filtering responses and weighing importance. There ought to be some people who know their cars making the surveys up.

However, I have no problem with the idea that they have their own interests at heart. Nevertheless, if we can each find it within us to do things that aren't completely selfish, then I don't see why they can't, either. If you can take their results with that much in mind, I don't see why it would still influence their results from brand to brand.

All in all, any source of information can only be good. It's up to us to do with it what we will. For those who don't eat, sleep and breathe cars, they can be helped with anything extra that they can get, JD Power or otherwise.

Look at the S class sales figures and compare it with the Bentley's and RR's sales number and then tell me which one is mass produced.

The sad part about the JD powers is that people actually do look at them and some might take them seriously. There are tons of people that will consider the S class without being a motorhead.

And also, as defense to JD Powers, they also rate car plants and let me tell you that when I worked at BMW, those did mean a lot because it is prestigious. Each factory was competing to win the award.

Come on, it is only some humor. Who says i hate Mercedes? I drool everytime i see a SLK or a M class. Also i voted for CL over Aston Martin is a recent poll.
Of course i don't like some other recent products like the CLS and S class but that's logical. We don't all have the same taste in cars.

Also i seriously doubt if potential S class buyers care or even are aware about JD Powers surveys. This won't hurt the S class in any way.

That's true. The people who takes these sorts of surveys seriously are more likely to drive Volvos.

................. now I've done it

Haha, ouch.
But no doubt there will be SOME people that read the survey. Even if they lose a few customers because of this, it's still a loss. Not to mention that maybe some magazines might have a story about how the S did bad in the survey, lots of things are possible.

Not saying that I agree with JD this time though.

I 'm sure that some car makers (like Toyota) make their models in such a way to top surveys like this one regardless if making a product to suit what the average buyer wants will mean that it will never exceed expectations in any aspect.

Sometimes listening to what the public has to say may lead to the wrong way.

Actually JD Power surveys have a big impact on companies: they actually do impact residuals, insurance rates and the prices that are charged for dealer servicing. End buyers do look at them and may give them some weight, but JD Power is, despite what many people may believe, quite influential "in the trade".

...unfortunately...

Yes they are and that is because of their very effective PR campaign. They have built their data analysis business into a consumer protection service and have applied it to any product they feel will benefit them in dealing with the producers to extract fees and support for their awards. The fact is though is that they are not experts in the products they rate, they are expert in gathering and manipulating data that fit their agenda which is to extent their position as "the" source of information regarding consumer products.

if there was any evidence of data manipulation, it would be grounds for suits in - at least - the hundreds of millions of dollars. JD Power is very transparent to those organizations who seek their detailed data: methodologies, sample sizes and other key factors are provided. Clearly, some very big companies who are well able to judge the validity of the data JD Power is presenting rate them highly, and I suspect with considerable justification.

In life there will always be something or someone who will put down what someone else sees as perfection. JD Power has never really been a respected source of information in my eyes. The fact that they praise lexus for it's so called quality when I see plastic and imitation leather in the interior discredits them in my book.

In the end it's all a matter of what people decide to buy, but considering the sales for the old S-class and the new one people don't seem to be "affected" by JD Power.

Wow...Bozzor is still around!

The part that really proves that these surveys are just for entertaining readins where the Lexus LS430 gets 5 stars for "style" and "performance". What a joke! The car is a ugly as all getout from the front and rear and dull as dishwater from the sides.

M

LMAO that just goes to show there is somthing majorly Fed up with the way the results are interpreted and presented.

Hey HoH, how have you been????

Well, as for use of plastic, anyone who has sat in a 2003 C class...I rest my case! Nothing wrong with plastic as long as it is good quality, long lasting and does not fall off.

Remember, the JD Power survey reflects owners opinions. If the owners are happy with it and rate it highly, then the opinion of a non-owner (unless they are a prospective buyer with an open mind) does not really matter to either Lexus or JD Power. The beauty of Lexus is that they give peopel what they want and owners keep comign back to the brand. At the end of the day, it is reflected in the bottom line. Lexus and Toyota make lots of money because people keep buying their cars.

One thing I would like to see is some analysis on conquest sales: peopel switching from the S class to the LS and vice versa, alongf with the 7 series and A8. It would be interesting to see how the numbers played out.

Not really anything wrong with the way the results are interpreted or presented, some buyers are just obviously blind in one eye and can't see out the other if they think a LS430 is "stylish". As far as performance goes those who haven't ever driven a MB/BMW/Audi would think a car that keels over like the LS430 does when asked to corner has "performance". When I think about it I really don't blame JDP, I think it is the consumer that is either ignorant about what these categories really mean or they're expecting a Benz to provide a not-from-this-world experience. All this talk about "they don't build them like they used to" has gone to absurd levels now. Hell that 300TE that Fifth Gear trashed had an I6, basically a truck engine by todays standards so of course it might be more durable than today's far more complex engines. It isn't as if anyone today builds a car that equals MB's "old standards". I think some of these people who live for filling out surveys are just clueless about cars in general, gulp(!) including some MB buyers. No way in hell the new S should get 3 out of 5 for something like build quality. That is nonsense.

M

Ageed.
Except that an I6 is not a truck engine.

I didn't say it was actually a truck engine, the implication was that it was low-tech and made of iron, like most truck engines, and thus it is more durable than today's aluminum/alloy engines.

FYI most heavy duty semis use an turbo-I6.

M

Guess what guys? The LS430 is actually not that bad a drive up to around 8/10s or so, then it actually does tend to lose the plot a little...but to drive it like that, you are breaking the law bya big margin. Fact is, even in spirited driving, the LS430 is quite good. But it puts supreme comfort ahead of performance and the only way that the BMW 7 series beats it convincingly is that the performance edge that is faster than the law allows...so naughty all of you!

Yep...JD Powers wants my expert opinion again and sent me the usual $1 bill as a token of appreciation.

The form is quite long and the What you Like and Don't Like section is the largest. All subjective oriented...I love this one..."Smell of the vehicle interior" They don't indicate before meals or after

I may fill this one out to keep MB record on the rise...if I fail to respond they will get only the people who don't like the color scheme...:-)

You know Jack, that might be the reason it got such ratings. Maybe pleased owners didn't bother to fill the form because they probably thought who wouldn't like such a car? So take your time and fill it Jack


Oh and who doesn't like new car's interior smell?

The J.D. Powers survey seems to be much like random sampling, you don't know what's coming from where or whom??? Word of mouth is always the best research method.