German Car Forum

the one you show above is a GT2 and not TT. Also you only say rip a hole in the heart and noone know if you mean on a track or straightline accelertaion. Acceleration only and SLr will rip a hole into 997TT

with that said lets stay-on-topic ,,

I voted for AMG. I have not driven an S or RS so I am not fully qualified to vote but I have driven both an M5 and an E55. My vote does not mean that M is inferior to AMG.
What it means is that AMG differs more from the regular Mercedes than an M5 from the regular 5 - series. At least that was my observation when test driving these cars. The normal Mercedes throttle response is really lazy compared to the AMG car. The M5 was merely a few steps up from the next model down in the 5 - series cars. The difference was not as pronounced as in the E55 vs. E500.
Some of the previous comments have made mention of Porsches so I will also put my 2 cents in: I have also test driven a 993 Turbo, and neither M nor AMG can hold a candle to this car. The experience is exhilarating.

did you drive the latest M5 or M6? I have and its a huge difference compared to standard 5er.

I am going to go with S/RS

In the automotive history these three brands have all shared their times where they have exceeded others in expectations and performance.

For me I believe that BMW is heading towards a very conservative approach in power and concentrating on other issues like power to weight ratio.

MB is like the one who likes to shoot steroids into the animal without every thinking about it. I mean look at the SL65 and the CL65 those things are animals. Either way I really don't think that they possess the fire that BMW once possesed.

Audi seems to be the one that is taking BMW old position and showing a growing fire within their factory. The new RS4 is a testament to that and I really can't wait to see the future cars they bring out. In addition to this they are doing it Naturally Aspirated.

No, this was one model back. So, I was comparing an M5 to the same year model 540. I can't remember now which model year it was for sure (must have been 2002 or 2003), but no, I have not driven the latest M cars.

That's an E39... that's an amazing car. I voted for ///M because they make some of the finest sportscars in the world... we have the inline 6 from the M3 which has one the most Engine of the year award... then we have the V10 which is also one of the best out there. With all honesty, I knew from the beginning that I wanted to work for BMW and I'm doing some good progress. I'm really considering about going into the Motorsport division though, that would be extremely interesting.

you should you will be amazed.

RS4 is no class leading car. M3 has always been the benchmark here. Just because M3 is in a transition period doesn't make the RS4 class leading. For now it's the best in it's class, but both you and I knwo that the next M3 will be the car the beat in the next couple of years in this segment!

Thanks, no doubt they are impressive. At the time when I was driving them I was sincerely considering buying one so I did not feel too bad testdriving it.
Now my focus has shifted to the Porsche world for a potential next car and I feel I would be cheating the dealership if I asked for a testdrive. Therefore I don't know when and where I could drive one. However, I have a friend with whom I work (and who also posts here - we are old GCF readers) and who is an unwavering BMW loyalist. I suspect that he might find a reason one day to testdrive one. If so, I'll tag along.

Sounds like a dream job. You are lucky.

M ofcourse.

My friend I agree with you 100% but you have to give it to the new RS4 it is a dangerous machine. I am sure that with every new piece of work BMW does they will set the benchmark. But remember that in the mid 90's they were on a roll and only recently have been slowed down or at least it seems like it because the other brands, like Audi, are catching up. Audi has developed a powerful NA engine which is found in the RS4. In addition to this they have just presented thee S6 with the V10 which we will see how it lives up to its competitors.

Either way I really do like the new RS4 a lot and think that it is a piece of work that is unmatched...yet!

M cars are the best for track use but theyre not the closest of the 3 to be a racing car going by the M5 and M6. I say this because of all the electronics involved with the car, it does alot of the work for you.

Its the best thats out now so its class leading

Funny how the numbers ended up, 12, 24, 36.

I think BMW M and Mercedes AMG are targeting their cars to different types of car enthusiasts.

BMW has always been about "the ultimate driving experience", and their M cars are their top of the line products. BMW and M always have and continue to produce cars which reward drivers with excellent steering feel, excellent brake feel, and manual transmissions (stick or SMG) which give the driver complete control. Cars like the E46 M3 and E60 M5 have wonderful high reving naturally aspirated powerplants which generate power with high engine speeds, again requiring the driver to "work" a bit to get the speed and acceleration. The ride in M cars is a bit harsh, but that rougher ride on everyday roads means excellent cornering ability and grip on a track with curves. As a "fun" car on a track that demands more driver involvement, BMW M is the clear winner. It is no fluke that almost every car magazine/show consistently rate BMW M cars very highly when it comes to overall performance.

I think AMG customers are a different breed. AMG cars are usually more luxurious inside and more heavy than M cars. All AMG cars have automatic transmissions (with manual modes if you want to shift like a sequential gearbox) which mean a smoother, more relaxing driving experience on everyday roads. All AMG cars use large displacement engines (with or without forced induction) to generate gobs of torque in the low-mid rpm range. As such, it is easier and more relaxing to drive an AMG car fast, as you don't have to rev the engine as high. Most AMG cars have a more comfortable ride on everyday roads than the M cars. The cost for that everyday comfort is more body roll when cornering at the limits, compared to a M car. However, it is all relative. All AMG cars have more sporty tuned suspension which make them handle much better than normal Benzes and most "sports cars" on the road. Bottom line: almost every AMG car is easier and more relaxing to drive fast on everyday roads (straight or twisty) compared to the equivalent M car, but the M cars offer a greater sense of involvement. On a track where you are cornering at the limits of grip, the M cars inspire more confidence for the driver. On the other hand, it's hard to beat the AMG experience if you're cruising or rocketing down the highway.

To me, the Audi S/RS line of cars is harder to label. They seem to offer a hybrid between the M and AMG experience, although I think they are aiming to be more like BMW M, but with quattro AWD as their distingishing feature.

Well said, well said. I think we have the same take on the brands two different philosiphies. M cars are essentially track cars for the road much in the same sense as Ferrari's. AMG's are hot rods for the drag strip bathed in luxury that do limited cornering duty, but always manage to get you to your final destination in both style and absolute timeliness.

Thats a super post.. gotta agree with everything said there

hehehe.....it's not quite as bad as that......

I've actually "educated" some die hard BMW fans about the handling abilities of the smaller AMG cars (like the C55). Take a look:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=489643

Overall, I was surprised about the response I got.....

Welcome to the Forum! Why were you surprised at their responces?

As many of you are aware, there is an intense rivalry between M and AMG (BMW and Mercedes Benz), both at the corporate level, and between some enthusiasts of the brands. I have seen many heated "debates" and verbal "wars" between enthusiasts on internet forums regarding which brand/vehicle is "superior". As such, when I made that post on a BMW forum, I didn't know what type of response I was going to get.

Many BMW M fans assume that all AMG cars are only good at going fast in a straight line. If you browse some of the more popular BMW forums, there has always been the impression that "oh yeah that AMG car is so fast, but it will handle like a pig on the twisties" or "The M car will blow the AMG car on a curve", etc, etc. Auto enthusiasts can be very passionate about their cars.

Great post.
Diferentiation is key to succes.

Very knowlegable you are, and your diplomatic reply is very much appreiciated. When I made the above statement I was reffering to the brand's cars in general, the C55 handles very well IMPO. The other AMG cars have a much bigger weight and are cars designed for more non enthusiastic driving. This trend may change w/ new AMG's to come, but as you said, it's the "feel" that makes the difference between the two brands. My point all along.

On a slightly different note I checked out a brand new C55 today at "our" MB dealer, the way the car was packaged is incredible!!! Capri blue w/ black interior and a "special order only" wood trim, I've forgotten the name, but it was spectacular and totally set the looks of the car off in a very big way. I love the C55 and I think many here who have really paid attention to may words regarding this car know this.

Sorry to bring back an older thread, but I found this quote from a M5board member succinctly describing the difference between M and AMG.

"If you want a sports car that you can use as a luxury sedan, get the M5, if you want a luxury sedan that you can use as a sports car, get the E63."

This basically describes the difference between M and AMG philosophies perfectly.

I can agree with that!