German Car Forum

Hybrid vs. 12 cylinders

As well all know the Lexus LS600h is causing a lot of buzz in the Auto industry. Lexus has said that it will be able to compete with the German V12s. Given the fact that this vehicle is around 100k plus, will it be enough to take buyers from the S600, 760 and A8 W12?

Will the hybrid technology developed by Toyota persuade V12 buyers to rethink the German options? Considering most V12 buyers could probably care less how much gas their car consumes, is Lexus up to par with the Germans capability?

Will the Lexus Destroy the Germans 12 cylinder market considering the cost of gas? Have they really 1 upped the Germans?


Lexus LS hybrid arriving in June
Base price is $104,750


AutoWeek | Updated: 04/06/07, 8:00 pm et
AutoWeek's sister publication, Automotive News reported this evening that a hybrid version of the Lexus LS sedan is ready for the market and base priced at $104,750. The car is slated to go on sale in June 2007.

The Lexus LS 600h L will combine a V-8 engine with a continuously variable transmission and electric motor. According to the Automotive News report, Lexus stated that the powertrain will be rated at more than 430 hp.


- Lexus LS hybrid arriving in June - AutoWeek

As you already said, this segment could careless about gas mileage.

It might be a true alternative to the 760Li and A8L W12, but it won't match the performance of the S600. The car will sell though, especially in the U.S., but it won't match the class leading S600 on the road.

M

It will sell well in London due to being CC exempt!

It will be interesting to see how the LS600h sells, because no vehicle from Toyota before it has been that expensive. That's obviously not cheap, mind you, it's still cheaper than the alternatives.

I'm not sure how the performance of the LS600h will stand up to the 760i and A8 W12. Note that the standard LS was already heavier than the BMW and the Audi, but perhaps because it remains with just 8 cylinders it has a slight weight advantage. Can't count on it too much though - Toyota's have always weighed as much as barges (with the exception of a few - 1988 MR2, etc)

S600: I agree with Marcus who said it won't match the S600 in terms of performance.

I don't care for performance as long as V12s in supersaloons are in question - what I go for is in refinement and low noise levels. I think both would be satisfied very well with the hybrid V12 in the Lexus - and not the least because it doesn't have any turbos to contend with. I remember my test drive of the Flying Spur, when I was at the back seat the turbos spooling are really loud and is quite irritating.

I do believe the V12 Lexus would be a hit, and it has the credentials to go with it. I'd certainly consider one - have you seen gas prices lately? Who says people who buy these cars don't bother... Rich people can be greenies too, you know. And not all the rich are spendthrifts - in fact, the richest people are the ones who save the most.

No one said that rich people are spendthrifts. My point being what you see as a costly exspense isn't the same for wealthier individuals imo. With that said their are alway's exceptions to everything.

Well, I do remember some talk about S-Class owners not caring about cost of options... Does that qualify as a statement to justify what I said?

Yes, you're right, there are exceptions of course.

It should to the people who posed opposition to you, Let's not forget that their is a huge price differents between these vehicles base models and the models listed in this thread. The people who own a A8 4.2 usually aren't the same kind of people who own a A8L 12W.

You're absolutely spot-on.. The demographics of V12 buyers are completely different.

Looks like it might steal some sales.

Yeah, but that damn exhaust system is such a turn-off to me.

This car looks sooo much better in photos than in real life. When I saw it I just couldn’t help but think camry/aurion. The similarities between these new Toyotas and their Lexus stalemates (proportions, surface treatments, detailing etc) are ridiculous. So much for the L Finess Bulls*** Lexus has been feeding everyone for the past 2 years.

Really? It's one of my favourite things about the LS460 - body-integrated exhausts. Shweet.

I actually can see that L-Finesse thing playing out... Although I agree with you that Toyotas still resemble Lexuses, I'm starting to see a Lexus identity coming up. Like that very unique rear-window treatment.

Yes, it looks very classy and neat.

The LS600H is a very nice car. I think I would still prefer a V12 if I were to spead over 100k. Only thing about a Hybrid, if you drive the car aggressive the hyrbid numbers won't mean a thing.

I also do see the L-finesse, but why once again they have chosen to poach Lexus design for Toyotas I absolutely cannot comprehend. L-finesse was conceived to provide lexus with its own unique identity, however the resemblance between Lexus and Toyota is stronger than ever. I have not spoken to a single person who hasn't drawn a comparison between the current Lexus lineup and Toyota Camry/Aurion (people clueless about cars in general included!!).

Yes well, I guess that is true... But I don't want to give my chauffeur too much fun now do I?

For aggressive driving, I think a V8 would be more appropriate.

That is true.

Lexus LS 600h L launch delayed


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If you were waiting for the June to come to get your new Lexus LS 600h L, you will be upset to hear that Toyota has decided to delay the production with at least one month. This means that you won’t see the luxury hybrid sedan into sale until late July or early August. Toyota officials in Japan did not give a reason for the delay.
"It was to be late spring or early summer," Greg Thome said. "Now they’ve said that it’s going to be summer."

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The hybrid-drive system in the LS 600h L builds upon the Toyota and Lexus legacy established by the Prius, RX 400h and GS 450h to combine an all-new five-liter V8 gasoline engine with large, high-output electric motors and a newly designed large-capacity battery pack. This advanced combination will provide the LS 600h L with an unmatched balance of environmental efficiency and performance, furnishing the hybrid with a peak combined output rating of more than 430 horsepower.
To distribute this immense power, a new full-time all-wheel-drive system is utilized for superior handling control. The LS 600h L also employs a newly developed dual-stage electronically controlled, continuously variable transmission. This combination results in impressive power and seamless acceleration.
Lexus LS 600h L launch delayed - Top Speed

I bet to do some last minute tweaking to get more MPG out of the thing or at least more performance.

M

I just remembered the LS600h will have CVT! Egad. Now it's all the more certain to say it won't compete with the Germans in terms of performance, IMO.