German Car Forum

Hey guys, I’ve been thinking of this for a while and I really wanted to share my thoughts with you GCZers. Ok where to start? Let me start from what Rob once commented on The Artist’s posts about the new Bentley Brookeland. Rob liked the way the Artist is so determinant about his choices and how he likes car brands like MB without a single doubt. Ok the Artist, bro don’t take this personally but you really inspired me to right this. I like being loyal but not when it comes to objects and especially consumables. I like to take the chances and evaluate different products from neutral point of view. I remember the times when I liked everything that came out of Stuttgart. I even liked MB’s trucks lineup. But that made me think, am I really brand-oriented to the point that made me “adjust” my needs and my standards to what that manufacturer offers? That was the turning point to me as a car enthusiast. Like in the 90’s I was not able to digest the idea of driving a FWD car. This made me hate VWs, Audis and most of the Japanese cars. But nowadays I have no problem driving one for my daily needs since it serve the purpose their perfectly.

I know I’ve diverted a lot from the main point, but the thing here. Does being loyal to a certain brand, make you adjust your needs, standards and even your passion? For example being an Audi fan means you need to sacrifice your passion for track days with a lot of donuts and burnouts? Or being a BMW fan you need to get used to the harsh ride most of the time where you can get an MB or Lexus with adequate comfort level? This is what I am concerned about. At the end we are evaluating products not human beings.

Am open to your thoughts guys .. what do each of you think?

I'd call myself a BMW fan, but that doesn't mean I like every model. I happen to strongly dislike the X3, think that the front of the 1er looks ugly at times, especially when it doesn't have the M pack. Also I sometimes see the 5er and think, how can I like that car (always happens when I see the car without the M pack). When I see the pre F/Led E65, mainly in lighter colours, I have to agree that those front lights look awful. When I was younger I praised everything BMW did and even if something looked a bit odd, I'd think it's a BMW so it much be good. I almost trained my eye to like some of these cars, even though I probably didn't really like the car. As I have got older though, I have become less baised and now there are are few BMWs I really don't like. Also, thanks to this forum, I have learned to appreciate other car brands, mainly MB, which a while ago I used dislike every car they made.

I think the main reason I like BMWs is because of the e39 M5, that was the car that got me into them. Then I found GCF and saw there were people who liked different brands, and were really into their brand. That got me really into BMWs. Now though I'm more neutral in my thoughts, even though BMWs still are a special brand for me!

- My favorite brand is BMW but of course I respect and like other brands as well.

- I'm not like some people who think a certain brand is best on everything, I know there are other good brands as well.

- Also I dont think all BMWs are the best looking cars either, many other carbrands have good looking cars too.

- BMW is closer to my heart but I respect and like other carbrands too.

Great post man, made me think alot.

Actually, brands use what you described. "The client likes what we make them like". When one hears that one usually think it's bullshit but it's true. Just as you explained. It doesn't just go for cars, everything we buy and and every other brand we love.

If I didn't love Apple, I wouldn't "need" the iPhone and if I didn't love Armani, I wouldn't "need" the new Remix.

And before Pagani, I had different requirements from cars but thanks to Pagani, they changed.

I don't really know where I'm going with this but that's what came to my head when I read your post.

wow im honoured to be your inspiration ( lol i guess its a good thing..haha)

Well im gonna be very clear on this..

Do i need to adjust my needs cause im a MB fan??

Well NO.. why?
cause MB offers a very large line up.. and they offer all from small car to the most luxurious.. and even some like CLKDTM wich are sporty enough for 90% of the folks here.. .
so no i dont really need to change my needs.. its rather that MB caters to my needs.. and i guess that is ultimate goal of a any company.. to please the consumer..

But remember this..
Allthough MB has a huge lineup offering everything it dosent mean that every car is the best in its class, nor is it the best looking..
and if you all know me design is very important, i cant own a ugly superb car..

so for example if i where to look for a super sports car.. i know that MB doesent do that very well, so i would look to other brands..

or if i where to look for a small car, and i don really appriciate the uppright position of the A class, so i could concider other brands...

PS
So the bottom line is.. i do not need to alter my need in order to be brand loyal, cause MB offers a very vast line up, and all of those cars are not bad..
so if i where to be ultra orthodox MB fan, i belive i could have my needs caterd very well

but im not that ultra orthodox.. so in some cases i would look to other brands..

I guess this makes you an 'Informed Consumer' Maserati

Gosh Kashef .....I wonder which super sports car brand you would choose?

^HAHA.. It starts with a P and ends with agani..haha
lol

nah but i would very much want a 599gtb.. easily over the SLR

Great posts guys. Guys this reminded me of something, remember when BMW have taken the decision to abandon its conventional look & go for a revolutionary one? I’ve read an article that BMW has lost a lot of its customers. That type of customers where not “Brand-loyal” but those were customers with certain type of taste that liked what the company offered for years with their old philosophy. And when the time came and company changed its direction, those customers thought this manufacturer does not fit our standards & taste anymore and maybe they’ve gone to alternatives that where closer to what they like. Certainly here am speaking about the appearance of Older BMWs not the driving dynamics since that has not been touched by Bangle. On the other hand BMW has gained different category of customers that are more into new ideas and revolutionary ideas.

Now history has taught us that such situations might repeat it, and this “Dejavu” thing might happen to Audi. Audi consumers have always liked the conservative looks & the evolutionary direction the company is adopting. What the A5 might create or created already is again a questionable thing. Loyal Audi consumes might “Adapt” to these changes like what happened to member Audiholic & Yannis. I had the feeling that both would just puke on that design if it came from other manufacturer. Just being an Audi gives it the right to be in my heart directly. It might upset them for a while but at the end it will win. Am sorry Audiholic & Yannis, I respect you both and am just expressing my self here. No hard feelings

I think Mercedes also runs the risk of losing some of their traditional customers if they get too much more 'radical' ....but they have played it relatively safe up until now. The new ODC will most likely not appeal to the traditional corporate-type of Mercedes S class buyer, but it will appeal to more extroverted types of people -- people who value the MB brand for different reasons. Brands today are no longer mono-cultural, they mean different things to different social groups. Mercedes understands that its products appeal to a variety of demographics. I think they have been quite clever to exploit this.

I never thought of people being loyal to a perticular manufactorer until I joined this form. It's kinda funny I started off a huge Mercedes fan when I was younger, it didn't matter that I didn't own one at the time, it represented and still does the idea that "you've arrived". When I finally brought my first Mercedes (2001 CL500) I loved the attention I recieved from the ladies but it didn't make me feel special from the drivers seat. However My 99 528i BMW made me feel very special! I loved that car, it was solid as a rock. I figured I'd be a BMW guy for the rest of my life. And then came this generation. For what ever reason they never sat right with me, it could be I wasn't ready for a completely different direction all at once. So now I'm looking at Audi's, I've yet to own a product from them yet but after testing out the 4.2L A8 and A6 I'm loving them for now. It seems to me that I'm a huge fan of a manufactorer until I own their products. However I've come to terms with what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for a manufactorer, I'm looking for a great all around vehicle. I don't care who makes it long as it can keep my short attention occupied when driving it. I guess once I buy my S8 this summer I'll be flying different colors in no time!

I'm a person who looks beyond the brand and sees product for itself instead.

I have immense respect for all German car manufacturers simply because they build amazing cars. Cars that can last forever, cars that are built like no other, cars that start every morning you go to work, cars that are like your companion. I don't have any one specific manufacturer that I adore... I'd take the Mercedes S-Class over any other of its competitors purely by its merits of its ride comfort, build quality and refinement. I'd take a 3er for the small sedan segment, and I'd get a VW Golf for my daily runabout. Basically, I go for any car that suits my needs... The brand doesn't really matter to me.

Heck, I'd have no qualms buying a Chinese car... As long as they can build cars that can match up to the competition.

no, im loyal to Lamborghini but I dont think ill be buying one in the near future

Mirage77: I have no doubt that you are one of the trustful members when it comes to expressing your thoughts about a car & I've always liked your reviews. Actually I've looked into some brands differently after reading your posts + reviews.

No need to make any adjustments. MB has provided everything I could ever want in an automobile, though I admire other car brands for their products, MB hasn't changed enough to warrant switching to another brand. Nor has any other brand put anything out that would cause me to shift my demands, because its covered by my other favorite brand Porsche lol.

Well it looks like the Mercedes boys are as flexible and open-minded as ever

Look at me I'm a VW freak (11yrs now) and probably won't stop being one
Prior to that I liked GM-Holden, Mitsubishi, Volvo, Peugeot but the VW bite bit hard

I do however look at other brands I'm a mod on a Chinese car (its amazing watching China grow) & a Ford forum

Thanks Maserati... I look forward to writing more reviews when I can finally assess the driving aspect of cars.

I can see that

Mr. Chigga Chan: are you implying that late MBs aren't harder or less comfortable than former ones ? Have you driven/sat in a current model E-class (W211) with no airmatic & compared it to the ride of a W124 E-class ? If you liked the ride of both then you have adjusted your "comfort" standards. MB is trying improve its sporty image which will for sure affect its well known reputation for comfort!

Yea, I have driven the E-Class pretty heavily in all 3 forms. My first car was a W-124 drove that for a few years, we drive a W210 now, ironically I drove the E430 quite heavily last night....And I've driven the W211 on several different occasions in past employment. These were mostly non-Airmatic W211 E320 4-Matics and rear-wheel drives, and 320 Diesels. In the situations where I drove them, it was on variable conditions, urban, open road, high-speed, low speed.

In the sense that the brand has modified its cars in subsequent generations, then you could say I too have changed. I do get the sense that the progressive generations do handle better, the loss of comfort is not obvious or significant enough for me to feel any sense of lacking.

However, its not to say I do not appreciate a hardcore, or more hardcore sports car say Porsche. In terms of brand loyalty, MB takes if for me overall. That doesn't mean that other companies automatically build inferior vehicles, or that MB's are automatically the best, far from it. We can go on and on about the quality foibles of the marque, regressed customer service and other things, but with that, I still remain true. I have to go, I guess I can finish in another post.

The whole question of brand loyality really brings up the question, are you biased ? Honestly, I can't interpret it any other way. However I do find it a very good and interesting topic. I suppose there is many ways one can answer this topic, here's my attempt.

Am I brand loyalist to Pagani ? Yes I most certainly am, but that has never blinded my eyes when it came to the real picture. As I have stated in the past, I openly admit that while I think the Zonda is the most wonderful car in the world, I think it has an enemy which is just as good (in all ways) - the Porsche Carrera GT. I admit the fact that despite the Carrera GT weighing more than 100kg more and having far less torque it can still whip the Zonda in the backside it when comes to the Hockenheim. I also admit that the Carrera GT handles just as well and as an overall package, it's even the better deal. Especially considering it's price tag is over 100,000 Euro's less with performance on par with the Pagani.

The other question, have you adapted your liking and tastes because you are brand loyal ? No, I never have. Even my favourite manfacturers have vehicles which I hate. When it comes to the germans, Porsche and Mercedes have always been my favourites and while I am happy with them, there are vehicles which I can not stand.

Porsche - I always liked the Cayenne from day one, and it's concept, so I did not need to adjust to it. However, the Cayman is a car which I never liked from day one and even Boxster, regardless of how good it may be is not a car which appeals to me. It's simply never "grown" on me.

Mercedes - Love this brand - but I don't really like the New C-class that much, very much dislike the R-class. CLS is wearing thin on me. On the otherhand, I think the new CL is one of the most fabulous cars on the market and one of the best designs to ever emerge from Mercedes.

BMW - I used to be a huge BMW fan. Loved every model, but ever since the introduction of the newer models, I no longer worship BMW. I don't blame Bangle for this, in fact I don't blame anyone for it. Quite simply, I can not adjust my tastes for the brand. As a result, the E60 M5 is a vehicle which has never appealed to me. From the new generation of BMW's, it's the E92 and the X5 which I admire the most.

Now onto another favourite manfacturer of mine - Lexus. Ahh yes, I love Lexus, have since the early 90's. By no means the perfect company, but I do have great respect for them. Never adjusted my taste for them either, loved the first two generations of the ES, but hate the most recent two. I hate the LS430 and the current generation of RX. Some what like the new GS, but much prefer the 98 GS400. Hate the SC430, love the SC400. Like the IS350, but am not happy with the IS-F.

Simply, as James pointed out, I'm willing to take any car if it's good and most importantly, If I like it. I'd easily take the LS460 over any of it's competitiors, but I'd easily the E92 over the IS-F, RS4, etc.

7.3 AMG: Great post mate. I totally respect your point of view. And when you said bias toward a certain brand is almost the same as brand loyality, well its true to some extent but I didn't want to put it that way since some people are sensitive to the word "Biased"

^ohh so your real question was
are you biased or not?

if so.. yes i am..and i belive most ppl are on this board..some more some less

ill admit that i am biased, I love Audi BMW Porsche, and i will agree that i am biased against mercedes, there i said it. I think that they make wonderful technology packed cars with great history and such. I just could never see buying most of their cars. My biggest problem with them is their interiors there just not designed for me. There exteriors in most cases rock
Ok so i dont mean to do this on purpose but it happens.
I will NOT change my beliefs or needs because my favorite car maker changes there ideals. I like Bruce love the ls460 and would even consider buying one instead of a German luxo barge. I just feel whatever car fits me the best is what i like but for example Audi, most models that they have imo are more me than the other competitors.

Yea, I was thinking about the topic earlier today, and I wanted to say I am heavily biased towards brands. But that doesn't prevent me from recognizing that other brands make superior vehicles in many other areas. Now, if I refuse to recognize that superiority and claim blind supremecy of MB, that, I call Fanboyish.