German Car Forum

"The Panamera is Porsche's first ever four door saloon car".

"Porsche has just released the official pictures of the Panamera. The company's first ever four door sedan car".

Has the motoring journalism gone crazy, blind and stupid at the same time?

The Panamera... a "four door saloon"???



It's a five door hatchback, NOT a four door saloon.

Actually, a hatchback liftback to be specific or pedantic, depending of your point of view.

Right... if it is a hatchback, then why the *eff* everybody keeps saying it's a "saloon" ("sedan")???

Oh, well, I think that could be because in many market this type of body is very new. The Panny is, acctually, the exact same as a SAAB 9000i/CS. Very liftback, it has nothing to do with coupes or sedans.

It's not a hatchback either as the rear is not upright.

Interesting you brought the Saab to thread Dr. Dunkel, because the Panny reminds me a bit of the old Saab 900:



Except the Panamera is uglier and YES... I know it's an old 9-3, but you get the point.

No, not a hatchback but a liftback. The difference between them is, as far as I know, the angle of the body behind the c-pillar. Steep = hatchback, gradual = liftback. The result is often evident in the overall lenght of the car.

Ah, we must be on to something here. The basic design seems to be rather similar.

Now... where can I get some Panamera badges for mine?

Both cars are designed by Michael Mauer . ( He was with SAAB at that time )

I've always liked the term fastback and I think that this applies aptly to the Panamera and 5er GT.

Without trying to start an argument over semantics (God forbid); fastbacks and liftbacks, are they not essentially the same, but "fastback" is more often used in three-door configurations?

Fastback is the only right choice for Porsche / Panamera ( can anyone imagine classic 4 door sedan with Porsche badge ?? ) The only thing I dislike is that pointy arrow shape of rear lights - can't stop thinking that this would be better ( bottom pic.)

It's all marketing BS... Porsche wants to call it a sedan, so it's referred to as a sedan.

Heck this is the first marketing BS... MB's CLS is a sedan, but for some reason they call it a coupe.

Liftback describes the functionality. Fastback describes the shape.
And, the fastback term is universally applied to 3 and 5 door bodyshells.

I've defended MB calling the CLS a coupe for years now. For me it's as much about the shape and proportion of a car as it is about the number of doors it has. I see a CLS 350 every working day of my life in the basement and I am always reassured that MB are vindicated in calling it a coupe. It's simply the shape of it.

If this is the final truth, I thank you!

Yeah, not to sound glib but it pretty much is. So, you're welcome and feel free to use when impressing the lads at the pub.

Ja, so... from a loose stylistic definition perspective:
Hatchback = Liftback + more vertically angled rear window
Fastback = Liftback + more steeply sloped rear window
Notchback = Liftback that looks like a 3 box sedan

Let me see if I got this straight:

Hatchback



Fastback



Notchback



But can you have a fastback saloon?

Yeah pretty much spot on... Although the Laguna is technically more fastback-ish as a result of the tailgate DLO.
Notchback hatches are very rare - they actually look more like pukka sedans but where the whole boot and rear window lift up as one. In fact, notchback is a term commonly used Stateside to describe a regular three-box saloon.

Here's the Daihatsu Applause - a good example of a notchback with a tailgate:

Because ever since MB/BMW established a BS marketing scheme by calling a 4-door CLS a coupe and an X5 some made-up SAV name, everyone eventually followed suit by calling models whatever they want.

As a result, until we start referring to X3/X5s as SUVs and CLS's as sedans, Porsche can call the Panamera whatever it wants.

Porsche Panamera

It's not a sportback or a notchback, not a fastback, nor a saloon,
not a stationwagon and not a fastback....
but what this really is.... it is a true Porscha!


Good I love the Panamera...

Hehe... you know what, when I saw the pics for the first time I freaked cause I hated the rear...

I recently saw it at a dealer for the first time in the flesh and damn me, I love it too.

By far cooler then any S/7/A8 out there.

Modern car design and construction has shown us that the idea of the number of door apertures defining the type of car shape is outmoded.

In my mind it's all about shape, silhouette and proportion.

The Panamera isn't a saloon or a sedan. It's a fastback, technically speaking - just as the old Rover SD1 was.

The CLS is much more of a coupe than it is a saloon.

IMHO.

Don't let Luw read this. He will claim again that the Panamera is just like the S, 7er or A8, just sportier
While in real life, the Panny has nothing to do with these proper luxury saloons, other than it's price.

So what is a BMW 5GT? a notchback?

^ Eezy Peezy. It's a fastback.

A notchback looks just like a sedan - except when you open the trunk it lifts a whole tailgate.

The 5er GT doesn't look at all like a sedan.

Thank You Martin.. for finally bringing the phrase 'liftback' back into this forum. No one seems to use this term anymore, and it's understandable why it's a prehistoric term in the auto-industry, but it is the most accurate description of some of the more recent '4-door coupes' that have come out.