German Car Forum

I agree..im gettin fed up allready
and lord knows ive tried to love the design..
But i cant

I was so sure that 5th door will be ' a la Cayman ' and still think of it as a better option for overall design / appearance of Panamera .

Being a a die hard Porsche fan, I am extremely underwhelmed by the design of the Panamera.

This was an opportunity to break away from the self imposed confines of the 911 design language.

Instead what we now have is the illegitimate over sized love child of a PT Cruiser and a 911.

What we should have witnessed is something closer to a
Fisker Karma

With elements of Porsche design language (only the front end in my opinion) and of course legendary Porsche performance. Which for me would have been as close to perfection as you could get.

As a 911 driver, the only four 'family' sports car option remains the M5, as it always has been, and judging by this effort will remain for the foreseeable future (or the Maserati Quattroporte GT-S if your money can strech that far).

Perhaps in real life - it may yet suprise......

Ok .. this has so little to do with the Panamera but I ll post it anyway.

Today, I was at the porsche dealer to test drive the Cayenne GTS. And then a pleasant surprise happened. There was a road show arranged by Porsche AG as part of the tour all around the world but emphasizing on developing markets (China, Russia and middle east). I got an invitation to the road show which I thought is just a presentation of what porsche has on the display. Well, It was a well arranged event that lasted for 5 hours. First we were invited to the golf club where the event took place and then we were introduced to Porsche line up ranging from the Boxter/Cayman, the new 911 and the Cayenne.

The event had 3 different interesting phases. First it started with a tour around the city. So we started into 2 groups. My group had the Cayennes for 50 Kms and then we switched to the 911 for the next 50km.

At first I was driving the Cayenne Turbo and I was blown away by that car performance. I mean coming from an X6 owner, it truly amazed me how sporty yet comfortable the car was. My instructor had a difficult time trying to keep me in line with others. I started 4th behind the instructor (in a Boxster) and I wasn't happy until I was right behind him. Then the greatest thing happened, we switched to the 911 and I took the 911 convertible with a PDK transmission. The new tranny was a huge improvement compared to the tiptronic It gives a true manual feel in each single shift. Redlining most of the time and I was racing my 34 year old instructor which happens to be a former rally champion (Named Stefan). Then I switched to the 911 4S with Manual. OH MY GOD, I didn't know I was a pro driver until then. Man I was almost shifting as fast as the PDK. I thought I was exaggerating until the instructor gave me few thumps up and unfortunately our trip came to an end.

The second part of the experience was the slalom competition where we were divided into 2 groups again and each group with its own instructor try to beat each team best number. Each member of the team had 3 runs (1st is a trial or training lap). Well I was almost the last competitor. At that time, I had a dead serious look on my face and I started the first lap. It was awful. I was missed a cone and went in the wrong side. My team had that kind of disappointed look thinking this is gonna be a mess. the Second turn, a miracle happened, that even the instructor was amazed with my driving skills. I finished the 1st on my group !!!!!!!!!!

with a time of only 27 seconds and they told me that anything below 28 is considered pro driving. Then at last we tried braking and steering and that was just a pure learning with no measurements at all.

I received a scaled 911 facelifted with "BEST SLALOM" engraved on it.

And while we were chatting my instructor told me they he was amazed when he first saw the X6 rolling the streets of Munich and it is truly an amazing car. I asked him about the Panamera, he replied conservatively, he told me he was involved in the development team of the suspension and braking. He said the car had a test tranny (he couldn't tell if its a PDK or tiptronic) but he said that the Maserati QP handles like a boat next to it !!!

^fun:d

QP handles like a boat next to it ? Either the guy was on crack or the car has some allien technology in it

Great write up Mo, and I'm glad you enjoyed the experience. Gosh I hope that I'll be able to enjoying something similar one day. How do you feel about the X6 compared with the Cayenne. Does the X5 feel lighters and more nimble? What he said about Panamera certainly sounds intriguing and I hope that Porsche will drop some damn interior shot next weeks to stir things around at Detroit. I'm dying to find out about the performance aspects of the car. Given the weight and the size of the car I would expect some Porsche engineering magic in the car that can't be understood by reading the spec sheet.

Hassan: well I wish I had any one living here in AD so that I can arrange the same for him and enjoy this great experience. Imagine, yesterday I took one of my staff (who has few interest in Porsche) and he enjoyed it to the MAX.

Now regarding the X6 Vs Cayenne comparison. Well I will try to be fair and unbiased.


Ride and comfort: The Cayenne had a better overall ride and comfort even in Sport Mode ! I thought i was still in the comfort or normal mode but it felt very sporty yet comfortable. In the X6 , you will immediately know that Sport mode is chosen because your head will keep nodding all the way even if the road is silky smooth.

Power: delivery and sound was amazing in the cayenne. In the coming few days I ll try the X6 V8TT to feel the difference but in the Cayenne: acceleration at any speed is effortless. I was bumpering the instructor's cayman and he was flooring it !

Steering precision and sensitivity: this is the tricky part, well for an average driver, the X6 would look/feel to have a more sinsitive steering wheel and more accurate direction changes and that is just the Active steering, in the Cayenne, steering is very precise but it needs more effort for a big car and Active steering compensates that in the X6. Porsche has a very positive steering feedback almost 1 step over the Bimmer.

Now luxury: The cayenne had a tan leather and black alcantra headliner. with leather dashboard and stitching. The materials felt quite nice but the car feels its age inside. The Plastics are of old era with easy to scratch paint and the over all feeling was very "VWish". The new screen is lovely and easy to use and I can't say that I like the iDrive more. It is different. The X6 feels more solid or better "assembled" and that is normal I guess since the Cayenne is a very old platform and almost 10 years old now.


The most dissapointing part of the comparison is: The off road setup and capability.

Well, till this point I was happy with my purchase, but when I discovered that, the Cayenne has a Differential lock and can lock to low rations for Off roading, I was totally disappointed with my BMW. I mean how can they benchmark those 2 SUVs without noticing such a huge option unless the platform is not capable. I mean the Cayenne still perform very well on road and now I knew that I can take it offroading comfortable. My X6 sucks for heavy off roading since it has no differential lock to lower gearing and height can not be increased. I will destroy the car front or rear or I might get stuck easily. At this point I thought the Cayenne was a better overall car but the low point is that it is due to replacement in 1 year or even less.

I wish I was fair enough.

Regards

hehe shonguiz. Actually he was very specific about the front suspension being too soft at some times and the ride feel floaty.

^^
The reason the car has a narrowing rear windshield it to create the visual illusion for a more slender and sleeker rear end. If the car had the wind shield on your chop then the rear would have looked even more disproportionate.

To my surprise your opinions are in line with those of the guys at rennteam. Some of the Cayenne owners there have tried out the X6 but prefer the Cayenne.

I think Maserati's conclusion sounds right. The standard X6 isn't as hardcore as the Cayenne GTS.

He drove the Turbo, not the GTS. The Turbo is just like the standard Cayenne and has the same off-road capabilities unlike the GTS that has a more road orientated suspension.

Well hassan, maybe I got this wrong but I think one of porsche representitves said that the Turbo has better/same setup as the GTS. And for the Turbo S there is a different front suspension too. It surprises me since I thought it was a little bit expensive difference between the turbo and turbo S for just a power upgrade.

lol, a hardcore Cayenne is the same as burning water. It does not exist. The X6 is faster around a track, too.

GTS height: 1 675mm
Turbo height: 1 694mm

The GTS can be taken off road but that's restricted to just gravel or some dirty road while the Turbo is a full fledged off roader that's capable of moderately trailing the tracks of a Range Rover or G-wagon. Porsche's Turbo models have always offered comfort and luxury that's on the same level as the S and Carrera models. That is why turbo models are so favourable as daily drivers. It's the GT models which have slightly lowered and stiffer suspension setups to provide a more sporty experience. That is why the GTS sits lower than the Turbo and hence compromised off-road capabilities.

Speaking of the Turbo S it has PDCC(chassi control) standard which aids the driving dynamics. On the other Cayenne's it's a very expensive option. In the end you can spec out a Cayenne S to handle like a Turbo S by adding the various options like air suspension and PDCC.

klier: well I think BMW is cheating. Well it is all marketing, first of all, The X6 35i should never be compared to the Cayenne V6 since it is just not in the same league, The 3.0TT has a much higher power/torque than advertised and I proved that few times. The X6 35i should be compared to Cayenne S/GTS period. And the V8 TT should be compared to Cayenne V8 TT. And the upcoming X6 M would go head to head with the Cayenne TTS. Believe me, the X6 35i is faster than both the X5 V8 and Cayenne S. In terms of price, the X6 35i is much more expensive than the Cayenne GTS fully loaded with even some Exclusive options. The Cayenne Turbo fully loaded is cheaper than the 50i. In my situation, I think the Cayenne has a better offering than the X6. And am not talking about looks alone.

Hassan: regarding the GTS height, yes you are right it is lower but that is just because when the normal S is not equipped with PCCB, it is higher but with the Turbo as you said it is standard. and The turbo in normal height it is the same but as the car moves it gets lower to level "1" in Low mode which is almost as the GTS, and Level "2" is left for ultra high speeds and loading purposes.

Hehehehe, so completely wrong! Maserati, 99.9999999% of the buyers DON'T live in the UAE, and a Cayenne Turbo fully loaded is almost twice as expensive as the X6 5.0
Comparing the GTS to the 3.5i is crazy, and comparing the 5.0i to the Cayenne Turbo even more so.

" I have seen more ferraris in one day in Dubai than I have seen my whole life in Italy!" Quotation from an italian who visited Dubai :-)

It is strange how car companies price their products in different countries and I am not talking about taxes or tariffs. In some countries the 335i is more expensive than a very well equiped cayman. I do agree though comparison should not be done based on price only.

chou,

Since this is about German cars, let's take a look at what they cost in Germany (base price):

X6 5.0i: € 74,800
Cayenne GTS: € 78,034
---
X6 3.5i: € 57,800
Cayenne V6: € 52,449
---
Cayenne Turbo: € 111,711
Cayenne Turbo S: € 132,774

Specs:

X6 3.5i: 306 hp, 400 Nm, 0-100 6,7 sec, 240 km/h
Cayenne V6: 290 hp, 385 Nm, 0-100 8,1 sec, 227 km/h
----
X6 5.0i: 407 hp, 600 Nm, 0-100 5.4 sec, 250 km/h
Cayenne GTS: 405 hp, 500 Nm, 0-100 6.1 sec, 253 km/h
---
Cayenne Turbo: 500 hp, 700 Nm, 0-100 5.1 sec, 275 km/h
Cayenne Turbo S: 550 hp, 750 Nm, 0-100 4.8 sec, 280 km/h

And since we have Diesel Cayenne now:

X6 3.0d: 235 hp, 520 Nm, 0-100 8,0 sec, 210 km/h
Cayenne Diesel: 240 hp, 550 Nm, 0-100 8,3 sec, 214 km/h

This is how the cars compare!
And the X6 M will compare with the Cayenne Turbo S in performance, and probably Turbo in price....

I told you Klier, the prices are in UAE only not arround the world. I know Porsche are usually more expensive than BMWs but not in UAE. I know 99.99999999% of the world has those prices you posted but i was talking about my case.

That's fine, but if you look at the engine specs, you will see that what you said is not correct either. The GTS shouldn't be compared to the 3.5i because it has 100 hp more (and is a V8 vs I6), and the same counts for the 5.0i vs the Turbo.

Now, back to the Panamera then

The very awkward looking key:

^What a joke!