German Car Forum

The Artist · 10-08-2008, 08:54 PM

Umm when it broke that this car was clocked at 7:29 i was shocked as thats 2 seconds off the Offical Record time of the Zonda..it was to good to be true..
now lets see if its true

Ohh and manufacturers DO claim laptimes offically .. look at pagani

And i guess they where not lying as the Zonda broke its own record with the same driver again and by a whole lot

Gullwing · 10-08-2008, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunny

Walter Rohrl, says he got "7:32" with CGT, another test only got "7:40", let us sue Porsche.

Ummm 8 seconds is a lot closer then 25 seconds. If Porsche had gotten numbers close to what Nissan claims, they would not have brought it up.

Sunny · 10-08-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gullwing

Ummm 8 seconds is a lot closer then 25 seconds. If Porsche had gotten numbers close to what Nissan claims, they would not have brought it up.

You missed the point, I made up those numbers. How much slower does it have to be before you can sue 25? 15? 10?

Yannis · 10-08-2008, 11:56 PM

Porsche wouldn't even bother buying a GT-R and testing it on N-Ring unless they thought that it is one of the best.

No matter what the lap times are that car is a 911 beater.

PS. Jeremy Clarkson also said that while the GT-R is mindblowing , he still can't believe the 7:29 time...

Jeremy Clarkson Nissan GT-R review | Driving - Times Online

Gullwing · 10-09-2008, 12:04 AM

Well look at the Miata, a few years ago. Mazda clained 155hp? but that was before emission parts were installed. Mazda had to offer customer full refunds or a certain amount towards their next car.

Sunny · 10-09-2008, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gullwing

Well look at the Miata, a few years ago. Mazda clained 155hp? but that was before emission parts were installed. Mazda had to offer customer full refunds or a certain amount towards their next car.

The same happened to some version of Ford mustang cobra too. The problem with HP is it is in official documentation. Lap times are not.

Monster · 10-09-2008, 01:53 AM

Nissan officially slams Porsche cheat claim

Quote:

Will show tyres and video as evidence, offers Porsche driving tips
Nissan is standing firm on its claim to the production car lap record at the Nurburgring despite a blistering attack from Porsche.

And it has the tyres to prove it.

The German sports car maker accused Nissan of using special semi-race tyres when it set the Nurburgring benchmark at 7 minutes 29 seconds in April but the Japanese company is now going public with the actual Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST CTT tyres used for the hot lap.

It is also offering video footage shot by the Japanese magazine 'Best Motoring" during the high-speed runs.

Nissan has also questioned the preparation of the customer GT-R used by Porsche for its in-house testing last month, where it claimed it could not get within 25 seconds of the Nissan time and that its 911 GT2 and Turbo were both quicker.

And, in a back-handed slap at Porsche, it has offered driving tips for anyone trying to get the best from a GT-R.

The man who led development of the Nissan supercar, chief engineer, Kazutoshi Mizuno, says the lap record car is a regular production GT-R.

“Testing a car with specialized parts such as unique tires or suspension has no meaning for us. The GT-R was designed from the start to be a supercar that could be driven anywhere, anytime and by anyone. For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant than creating a one-off vehicle that our customers cannot buy," Mizuno says.

Nissan has taken nearly a week to assemble the evidence it says clearly refutes the Porsche claims.

It has even offered to show the actual tyres from the record run, which were taken back by Sumitomo in Japan for promotional work, to prove they are identical to the rubber fitted to production cars.

"It is clear that there are some important facts that were not accurately represented," Nissan says in its official press release on the Porsche claims.

It states that the record run, by former F1 driver Toshio Suzuki, was even compromised by carrying around 50 kilograms of data logging equipment supplied by Marelli and camera equipment.

Without attacking Porsche directly, it has also questioned everything from the tyres on the customer car its rival used to its preparation and the skill of the driver - who Porsche describes as one of its chassis test engineers.

Nissan says there are two types of tyre fitted to the GT-R, and the clear inference from its reference to the Bridgestone Potenza RE070R is that these were fitted to the Porsche-run GT-R and not as quick on a track as the Dunlops it uses.

It has also indirectly questioned the preparation of Porsche's car by referring to the run-in and service procedure, as well as the special technique for driving the all-wheel drive supercar.

"We are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car," Nissan says.

"In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."

Nissan has gone into great detail on its work with the GT-R at the Nurburgring, including documenting its various track tests earlier this year and the method - the same one used by Sport Auto Magazine in Germany - it used to time the car.

And Mizuno even says the Nurburgring lap record was not the prime objective of the GT-R program.

“We have used circuits like the Nurburgring and Sendai extensively during the development of the GT-R. The fastest lap-time was never the objective but a simple parameter for us to measure the GT-R in a consistent way against other world class supercars," he says.

Exclusive: Nissan officially slams Porsche cheat claim | carsguide.com.au

Just_me · 10-09-2008, 02:17 AM

Enough of the talk!!! make the test for crying out loud.......

Yannis · 10-09-2008, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazutoshi Mizuno

"In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."

Lol, in simple words he is saying that Porsche guys are not capable of driving the GT-R fast enough.

This is a funny story. I don't actually care who says the truth but i will enjoy every minute of the debate.

martinbo · 10-09-2008, 05:15 AM

I hope to hell for Nissan's sake it wasn't Walter Rohrl driving.

Monster · 10-09-2008, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinbo

I hope to hell for Nissan's sake it wasn't Walter Rohrl driving.

Why didn't Porsche use him in the 1st place, if they want to find out what the GTR can really do, isn't Walter the best person for the job?

martinbo · 10-09-2008, 05:53 AM

Catch 22; conflict of interests - who knows? Maybe Walter is able to extract a dilly time out of the GT-R... on the other hand, what if the great Walter is not able to get a great time and yet some other test drivers are.

In either event, giving away too much information wouldn't necessarily be in Porsche's best interests.

Nevertheless, what an epic little bit of performance manufacturer to and fro'ing.

Family Guy · 10-09-2008, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster

The easiest way for Nissan is to get Toshio Suzuki to drive the GTR around the Ring, with a Porsche engineer sitting along side.

No! the fat porsche engineer might effect the time!

martinbo · 10-09-2008, 09:15 AM

This is about the most rational piece of opinion I've yet read on the matter:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniff Petrol

SHEEEEE-IT! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!
Sniff, Friday, September 12th, 2008 at 3:09 am
Posted in News

There was grave concern this week as a leading scientist warned that an ongoing series of experiments could result in a massive black hole that would destroy the entire planet.

The experiments in question concern a device called the Grand Tadron-Relater (GT-R) which is being fired at increasing speeds around a 5.15km loop known as the Recherche Institute Nucleaire Grandvitesse (‘RING), situated in the German countryside.

“This whole experiment is ridiculous,” says Professor Ken Freeply of Nigel Havers College, Kettering, the scientist at the centre of the empty headed doom-laden blathering. “The GT-R is being sent around the ‘RING every week and every time it does the speed at which it completes the loop is inexplicably getting higher and higher. According to my extrapolations within as little as 18 months it will be circling the entire ‘RING in around 32 seconds, at which point a fatal black hole will be created”

“Of course the black hole won’t actually be caused by the sheer speed of the GT-R,” Prof. Freeply added. “It will most likely result from the sheer weight of tedious argumentative bollocks posted about it on the internet”.

Centurion · 10-09-2008, 10:39 AM

Press Statement

NISSAN GT-R TEST PROCEDURES

In light of comments made recently in the media concerning the testing of the Nissan GT-R, it is clear that there are some important facts that were not accurately represented.
Background

On September 24, 2007 the Nissan GT-R recorded a lap time of the Nordschleife circuit at Germany's Nurburgring of seven minutes and 38 seconds. This lap time was completed in weather conditions that the Nissan test team knew would not show the full potential of the car.

On April 17, 2008 the Nissan test team was back at the Nurburgring and recorded a new lap time of seven minutes and 29 seconds, several times.

For all testing at the Nurburgring and other circuits such as Sendai Highlands in Japan, the GT-R development team used production specification vehicles with production specification tires. These tests are part of the extensive performance and durability program undertaken before, during and after the commercial introduction of the GT-R.

The GT-R is a world-class supercar developed to be sold in multiple global markets. While specifications can differ across the various markets, the cars used to record both Nurburgring lap times were identical to the Japanese market production specification cars.

For the April 2008 test, the GT-R carried an additional 50kg of weight due to the Marelli data recorder and video camera equipment. In addition, the test was witnessed by 'Best Motoring' magazine from Japan who reported the test in their July 2008 issue, which included a DVD program of the session.

Nissan records the lap times around the Nurburgring using the same methodology and measuring locations as Sport Auto Magazine in Germany. Sport Auto Magazine provides the most consistent and objective measurement of lap times around the Nurburgring, allowing accurate comparisons between different vehicles.

In both timed lap sessions at the Nurburgring, chief test driver and professional racing driver, Toshio Suzuki was at the wheel. Suzuki has been the chief test driver on the GT-R program throughout the vehicle's development.

Tires

The GT-R offers two different tire choices for customers:

Bridgestone POTENZA RE070R
Dunlop SP SPORT 600 DSST CTT

For the tests conducted at the Nurburgring where the lap times of 7:38 and 7:29 were recorded, the Dunlop tires were used. The tires – which are designed for high performance driving in the dry and wet - used in the tests were identical to the production specification tires available to GT-R customers.

In June, 2008 Dunlop Japan issued a press release announcing that their tires had been used by Nissan to record the 7:29 lap time. The release can be accessed in Japanese and English at:
NISSAN GT-R‚É‘•’…‚³‚ê‚½ƒ_ƒ“ƒƒbƒv‚Ì‚«”\ƒ‰ƒ“ƒtƒ‰ƒbƒgƒ^ƒCƒ„ uSP SPORT 600 DSST CTTv‚ªƒjƒ…ƒ‹ƒuƒ‹ƒNƒŠƒ“ƒNƒT[ƒLƒbƒg‚Å7•ª30•b‚Ì•Ç‚ð”j‚é

SUMITOMO RUBBER INDUSTRIES | Investor Relations | Corporate News

For any media interested in seeing the actual tires used at the test (7:29 lap time), they should contact the Public Relations Department at Sumitomo Rubber Industries, Ltd. in Japan.

Driving the GT-R

Consistent with industry benchmarking practices, we are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car.

In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R.

Remarks

From Kazutoshi Mizuno, Chief Vehicle Engineer and Chief Product Specialist for GT-R:

"We have used circuits like the Nurburgring and Sendai extensively during the development of the GT-R. The fastest lap-time was never the objective but a simple parameter for us to measure the GT-R in a consistent way against other world class supercars."
"Testing a car with specialized parts such as unique tires or suspension has no meaning for us. The GT-R was designed from the start to be a supercar that could be driven anywhere, anytime and by anyone. For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant than creating a one-off vehicle that our customers cannot buy."

Conclusion

Due to the weather conditions at the Nurburgring, testing has now stopped and will resume around April 2009. Nissan will be back at the Nurburgring testing both the standard GT-R and upcoming additional models. We look forward to welcoming more members of the media to join us for these test sessions, consistent with our transparency at previous test sessions.

Centurion · 10-09-2008, 10:47 AM

"Due to the weather conditions at the Nurburgring, testing has now stopped and will resume around April 2009. Nissan will be back at the Nurburgring testing both the standard GT-R and upcoming additional models."

Hahahahahahaha

What a bunch of chicken heads! So what are they going to do in the next 7 months, tweak the car further??? Typical coward way of buying yourself time. I mean what's going to be the next criteria, the planets have to be aligned???

I don't think that anyone or even Porsche care about weather conditions. All everybody want is a showdown with the GT2 on the same day and simply see which car is fastests. This is Nurburgring, play by the bloody rules. That track is used all year around.

martinbo · 10-09-2008, 10:57 AM

No, quite logical if you ask me - especially if track temperatures are significantly lower. Tyres work much better on warm tarmac. Summer time is 'Ring time - can't deny that.

chonkoa · 10-09-2008, 10:59 AM

Glad to see Nissan standing by their claim.
Let us relax and enjoy this saga.

warot · 10-09-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centurion

"Due to the weather conditions at the Nurburgring, testing has now stopped and will resume around April 2009. Nissan will be back at the Nurburgring testing both the standard GT-R and upcoming additional models."

Hahahahahahaha

What a bunch of chicken heads! So what are they going to do in the next 7 months, tweak the car further??? Typical coward way of buying yourself time. I mean what's going to be the next criteria, the planets have to be aligned???

I don't think that anyone or even Porsche care about weather conditions. All everybody want is a showdown with the GT2 on the same day and simply see which car is fastests. This is Nurburgring, play by the bloody rules. That track is used all year around.

Dude, obviously they can go now but they aren't going to get the time of 7:29. It's well into fall, almost winter. If you read, they aren't doing a head to head comparo with Porsches. They are going for the same lap time that is in question. In current conditions, I doubt they'll be able to make it, and have people like you moaning and groaning.

Look, I'm not pro-Nissan or anything. As a matter of fact, Porsche is definitely one of my favorite brands. The 997 GT3 and Turbo are one of my favorite cars out there now. But please give them benefit of the doubt. If they can't replicate the lap, I'll be right there with you, even though I still think the GT-R is superb no matter what.

On top of that, if you came to me and asked, which one would you like, GT3 or GT-R. I'd pick the GT3 every time

Centurion · 10-09-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warot

Dude, obviously they can go now but they aren't going to get the time of 7:29.
:

Thankfully they've invited the media. But what would be best is if the Sport auto or someone else are the ones to provide the car used for the test since we can trust Nissan and what ever car they would bring. Some dyno on it would be highly suitible as well. I'll lay down my sword the day someone managed to acheive a lap time below 7.32 with the GT-R.

BMW Power · 10-09-2008, 05:23 PM

Nissan GT-R: Nissan Officially Responds To Porsche Skepticism, Recommends Driving Lessons

Quote:

The war of words between Nissan and Porsche over Nurburgring lap times continues. Today Nissan officially responded to Porsche's statement last month that they were unable to get within 25 seconds of the Nissan GT-R's claimed fastest 'Ring time, leading Porsche to claim Nissan had used a ringer with race tires. Seems that Nissan still has the tires they used, however, and they're inviting Porsche to check them out — along with video of the run shot by a Japanese magazine. To top it off, Nissan states the GT-R used, rather than being a ringer, was actually hampered by 110 pounds of extra telemetrics. So what gives? Nissan has inferred Porsche must have neither properly run-in the Nissan nor learned how to extract the most from the Japanese supercar's AWD system. Choice Nissan quotes after the jump.

We are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car. In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R.

We anxiously await the no-doubt terse and pointed release that'll be forthcoming from Stuttgart. In the meantime, we just want to remind both companies that your mother countries have a long history of working together, so let's not let this go too far. [Carsguide.news.com.au]

Sunny · 10-09-2008, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinbo

No, quite logical if you ask me - especially if track temperatures are significantly lower. Tyres work much better on warm tarmac. Summer time is 'Ring time - can't deny that.

Yes, I believe even Sport Auto stops doing super tests during winter. I know they waited before testing RS4. They probably still publish old tests they did, but they don't do any new ones.

Sunny · 10-09-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

We are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car. In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R.

Lol, what a put down!

Tarek · 10-09-2008, 10:29 PM

Wow Nissan is pretty bold about the GT-R,man i really hope they are right after this outrageous sarcastic tone

The Artist · 10-10-2008, 02:16 PM

I guess they got real mad with porsche..
They are even planning to spoil the panameras party

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German Car Forum

Nissan hits back at Porsche cheat claim